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From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

Ryzer

Erudite
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
996
I don't understand all this bitching about the aggressiveness of the combat.
It's more related about the fact that the gameplay is taken straight from Dark Souls 3 and is merely changed for it. Personally, I would have liked if the game featured a completely different combat system adapted to the aggressiveness. Instead, they just gave a stamina regeneration that is way too generous to overcome the challenges. Thus, it ends up as an absurd roll-fest.
They did it differently in Bloodborne.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
51,508
I never played Nioh, but from the looks of it it seems very twichy, which is not something i ever liked.

"But Elden Ring is also twitchy!"

Actually, not quite. Elden Ring is about figuring out what a boss does, not make the player feel like a super awesome ninja with constant button mashing, big flying numbers popping everywhere and constant flying spinning attacks.

Dark Souls won me over because unlike the vast majority of twichy Japanese fighting games, it called for contemplativity, not spazzy button mashing. They may have added some twichiness to the bosses ever since Bloodborne but the core idea still remains.

My last fight with Mohg was a case in point since i was able to stun him repeatedly and i was able to jump over some of his attacks to maintain momentum (on my second fight with him i chickened out on jumping over that slash attack he makes after using those fire claws otherwise it would have been over even faster).

Did you guys know you can stagger Malenia with guard counters?



I didn't see the whole video and i don't know how he deals with the waterfawl shit (still trying to keep myself in the dark with that) but it seems to me build variety is back to the menu in this game.

I don't want Souls to turn into Devil May Cry. It feels the combat system they came up with is unique to themselves and if it has to evolve to maintain the challenge i want it to evolve within its own limits. I don't want to ditch the whole thing to make yet another Japanese twichy spazz fest.
 
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Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
5,089
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I don't understand all this bitching about the aggressiveness of the combat.
It's more related about the fact that the gameplay is taken straight from Dark Souls 3 and is merely changed for it. Personally, I would have liked if the game featured a completely different combat system adapted to the aggressiveness. Instead, they just gave a stamina regeneration that is way too generous to overcome the challenges. Thus, it ends up as an absurd roll-fest.

In fact generous Stamina regeneration is not the only thing they "gave".
They also provided Spirit Ashes, varied and OP Weapon Arts, Wonderous Flasks and probably several other things. Meaning there are A LOT more tools to handle challenges now. Trouble is, the good old melee combat is not better for it in any way. And using these, sometimes cheesy and gimmicky, things tends to cheapen the experience - rather then enrich it.
 
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Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
5,089
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I never played Nioh, but from the looks of it it seems very twichy, which is not something i ever liked.

"But Elden Ring is also twitchy!"

Actually, not quite. Elden Ring is about figuring out what a boss does, not make the player feel like a super awesome ninja with constant button mashing, big flying numbers popping everywhere and constant flying spinning attacks.

Dark Souls won me over because unlike the vast majority of twichy Japanese fighting games, it called for contemplativity, not spazzy button mashing. They may have added some twichiness to the bosses ever since Bloodborne but the core idea still remains.

Eh, not sure about Nioh 2, as I didn't play it that much and it seemed more gimmicky in general, but Nioh 1 doesn't have to be twitchy.
I should know, with my old reflexes :)

I spent 90% of the game slowly swinging my axe in High Stance. Combat rhytm is more important then reflexes, really. Once you learn to time your inputs and take advantage of Ki pulse, it flows pretty beautifully. I'd say you need way less reflexes then in Elden Ring.
Of course, I guess there are much higher mastery levels (like switching stances all the time to Ki pulse all the time), but I'm not bothered.
Got trough New Game+ just fine with my poor reflexes and Axe High Stance and was doing fine on Way of the Demon, but finally got tiered with it on ++.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
51,508
One of the reasons i didn't play Nioh yet is that i have it on Epic (it was free) and not Steam, and i feel dirty playing anything on Epic lmao.

BTW, tell me i'm not the only one who downvotes every single Fortnite message you find in the game lul.
 

mediocrepoet

En français: poètemédiocre!
Patron
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
5,529
Location
Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
I don't understand all this bitching about the aggressiveness of the combat.
It's more related about the fact that the gameplay is taken straight from Dark Souls 3 and is merely changed for it. Personally, I would have liked if the game featured a completely different combat system adapted to the aggressiveness. Instead, they just gave a stamina regeneration that is way too generous to overcome the challenges. Thus, it ends up as an absurd roll-fest.

In fact generous Stamina regeneration is not the only thing they "gave".
They also provided Spirit Ashes, varied and OP Weapon Arts, Wonderous Flasks and probably several other things. Meaning there are A LOT more tools to handle challenges now. Trouble is, the good old melee combat is not better for it in any way. And using these, sometimes cheesy and gimmicky, things tends to cheapen the experience - rather then enrich it.

Though I agree with you to some extent, I would say that jump as a button instead of the god awful sequence required in the older games is a game changer and makes melee combat far better. I used jump attacks in prior games too, but it was a pain in the ass and felt way worse.

The jump button also has had a nice effect on exploration and the way they've set up levels and hidden things.

Other than that, outside of melee combat, the magic feels more varied than prior games, even DS2 which used to feel more varied and better than any of the other games in the series.
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
5,089
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Yeah, I guess jump is pretty good, with it allowing to evade many low blows (even if its introduction lead to rote jump attack spam - guess those are a little too strong).
And yeah, I don't know much about that, but I guess magic seems improved too.

On the other hand we have those spastic helicopter bosses with endless stamina, attacks with variable delays and long combo chains...
Which are pure decline IMO.
 

Caim

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
10,389
Location
Dutchland

Alphard

Magister
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
Messages
1,249
Location
Draghistan ( former Italy)
WHO THE HELL THOUGHT WASD A GOOD IDEA to PUT 2x of an enemy to make things more challenging?
"Hey Myazaki sama, players are still beating these frustrating enemies that barely have a windows to get punished and do nonstop flurry of hits and 2shots at 40 vigor"
"We can't tolerate it, it's a hit to our nippon pride, if they beat the game we might have to cut our micropenis as form of seppuku , let's just slap 2x of them in arena and we'll see who laughs last "insert Dark Souls npc insane laughter""

I'm walled by these stupid duos of gargoyles and crucible knights. While i gave up on latter (i have to perfectly parry every hit to survive), i was trying the gargoyles and after 8 tries i managed to kill one with 8 flasks left and the otyher one was left with 1/3 hp. I use bubble flask and close distance, when the unthinkable happens after 10 minutes of fight (plus 8 other attempts) : i make 1 FUCKIN MISTAKE and he slams the axe on the ground and instagibs the bubble plus all of my hp.
FUCK YOU FROM YOU ARE WINNING FOR NOW BUT I?LL MAKE YOU CUT UR MICRODICK, TRUST ME
 
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Wunderbar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
7,574
Alphard try it out if you have the respective recipe book. I don't know if you can put Gargoyles or Crucible knights to sleep, but I found sleep pots/arrows very helpful during godskin duo fight.
 

Alphard

Magister
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
Messages
1,249
Location
Draghistan ( former Italy)
Alphard try it out if you have the respective recipe book. I don't know if you can put Gargoyles or Crucible knights to sleep, but I found sleep pots/arrows very helpful during godskin duo fight.
i think i got the gargoyle fight, just need the right rng and luck. Crucible knight on the other hand i will find a way, sleep or other, to cheese them because they are ridiculous
 

Andnjord

Arcane
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
2,677
Location
The North Sea

NJClaw

OoOoOoOoOoh
Patron
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Messages
7,225
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Pronouns: rusts/rusty
Pathfinder: Kingmaker I'm very into cock and ball torture
I'm Ridin' with Biden I'm Ridin' with Biden
Ranting about a vidya in a forum is magic. I just did them after 1 more try (no summons no cheese, just me and my flaming greatmace).
That's where RTFM comes from. Rant on The Fucking foruM.
 

Andnjord

Arcane
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
2,677
Location
The North Sea

Dhaze

Scholar
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
Messages
250
Location
Belgium
Elden Ring is about figuring out what a boss does, not make the player feel like a super awesome ninja with constant button mashing, big flying numbers popping everywhere and constant flying spinning attacks.

Uh... are we playing the same game? You know, Elden Ring. In which you can dual-wield bleed katanas and with them make jumping attacks that see you slash six times in a second, with blood splashing all over the place as a result ? :lol:

Or are you talking about Corpse Piler, and Waterfowl Dance, and Ordovis' Vortex, and Bloodblade Dance, and Black Flame Tornado, and Blood Tax, and Loretta's Slash, and Stormcaller?

I mean, let's be honest: Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1&2 are unfortunately long gone. Miyazaki has gone full anime, and even that isn't new since it began with Bloodborne and DS3.

I don't want to ditch the whole thing to make yet another Japanese twichy spazz fest.

Give Nioh 2 a solid try. It's quite a lot faster than the Souls games, but it's not twitchy unless you want it to be.

If you want to keep it as un-flashy as possible, go with the Odachi as a weapon and make a super tanky character in heavy armor. When understood well, wielding an odachi while wearing Tatenashi and Acala gives you the ability to forego any magic and ninjustu and all the flashy stuff; you can just dodge, tank, block, and strike hard when appropriate.

And that game has boss fights that trample all over 95% of bosses' design in Elden Ring. Shuten Doji and Lightning Gods Of Yomi in particular are simply wonderful—and I really mean wonderful.

I used jump attacks in prior games too, but it was a pain in the ass and felt way worse.

Other than that, outside of melee combat, the magic feels more varied than prior games, even DS2 which used to feel more varied and better than any of the other games in the series.

The jump attacks in Elden Ring is basically a copy of the warrior class' jumping attacks in Dragon's Dogma. Everyone and their sister was spamming it because it was the quickest standard attack with the least recovery and huge stagger ability.

And about the magic, that's why I liked fighting against Loretta with Eternal Darkness and Carian Retaliation. It changes things. I'm not only dodging and waiting for my turn; I'm actually defending myself from her attacks and simultaneously countering them in a meaningful way.

WHO THE HELL THOUGHT WASD A GOOD IDEA to PUT 2x of an enemy to make things more challenging?

The intensity of schadenfreude I'm feeling about that cannot be expressed.

"Dark Souls 2 is shit, bruv. It's full of artificial difficulty. It spams multiple bosses and groups of enemies like it's going out of style. Man, the B-Team at FromSoft doesn't understand what makes a Souls game. They're shit without based Miyazaki.". Hasn't that aged well, now?
 

Ryzer

Erudite
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
996
Another whiny post by me...
So after a couple of minutes into Elden Ring, I just want to say that I like absolutely nothing about the gameplay. There is some awful input lag (It's probably an issue not related to the game), I tried to do what you have told me. Watch out for the postures, so did I. I'm already fed up with doing the same attacks, waiting for the same exact timing to parry. It doesn't feel right. Furthermore the jump is completely absurd, nobody jumps like that and the first boss already pisses me off. I already want to come back to Bloodborne instead.
Also Why does the game consume so much RAM and processor? The world is approximately empty of living or entity...
 
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mediocrepoet

En français: poètemédiocre!
Patron
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
5,529
Location
Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
:avatard:

"I hate everything about this game that I'm wasting my time playing so I'm going to waste even more of my time telling you how much I hate every second of it because that shows that I have high standards, a prestigious reputation, and an incalculable IQ."

:hmmm:
 

Dhaze

Scholar
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
Messages
250
Location
Belgium
So I've tried to fight Rykard on NG+ without the Serpent-Hunter, and promptly melted in the lava. The way he says the line, "Now, we can devour the gods together," is so over-the-top it's hilarious; I simultaneously love and hate how silly it is.

There is some awful input lag (It's probably an issue not related to the game)

Dodging is done on a negative edge—that is upon releasing the key/button, rather than upon pressing it, so that might be part of what you're experiencing. Also, the game demonstrably drops various inputs seemingly at random; I've no idea what causes it, but it can be confusing until you realize what has happened. And the input buffer is very weird, which can also lead to a feeling of 'sponginess' or lag.

:avatard:

"I hate everything about this game that I'm wasting my time playing so I'm going to waste even more of my time telling you how much I hate every second of it because that shows that I have high standards, a prestigious reputation, and an incalculable IQ."

:hmmm:

That's something like 70% of games forums in a nutshell.
 

Andnjord

Arcane
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
2,677
Location
The North Sea

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