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From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

Caim

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
15,468
Location
Dutchland
So I am new to dark soul games.

What is a good starting character/class for beginners?

It also seems that the starting points that each class has are different.

So should I take the class with the most total points?

And is an allround character a feasible option?
For someone 100% new to the Souls series avoid the caster classes, which are the Astrologer, Confessor, Prisoner and Prophet. The Bandit is best avoided as well for a new time player since it's ideal for gimmicky builds. For the five remaining classes it's all about what kind of playstyle you prefer:

- Vagabond is for someone who wants access to all the various toys the game has to offer and is pretty tough right out of the box. Level up both your Strength and Dexterity to rapidly allow you access to a fair chunk of the weapons you find in the game. Also comes with the Longsword, an exceptionally balanced weapon that when wielded along with a second one you can buy early on in the game will greatly improve your damage output for very little investment.
- Hero is for someone who wants to wielde a big hefty sword, axe or hammer. Go full-in on Strength, pick a nice weapon and bonk your way through the game.
- Samurai is for weebs. Katanas are one of the most powerful weapon types currently in the game. You start with one, and by picking up the various you encounter lets you become pretty strong. Invest heavily into Dexterity, level Strength when you need it and you'll be on your way nicely.
- Warrior has the issue that it lags behind Samurai when it comes to Dexterity builds due to its stats, so if you want a Dexterity build without katanas (like using curved swords, or you want to LARP as Darth Maul and pick up a twinblade) just go with the Samurai instead.
- Wretch is for people who like the idea of being thrust into the world with next to nothing to their name and want to build themselves up from 0. The Wretch has balanced stats and as a result can go in any direction, but this comes at the cost of lagging behind more dedicated builds.

The whole points per class thing works as follows: each class has their level + 79 points in attribute points. So if you were to crunch the numbers you'd see that the Wretch has 80 points total and the Vagabond has 88. All classes have the same number of total points if you'd level them up to have equal stats (this was not always the case in previous games), but classes that have lower stats in certain attributes will reach certain levels earlier. So if you'd level the Wretch to have th same Vigor, Endurance, Strength and Dexterity as the Vagabond, it'd be five levels higher than the base Vagabond on account of it having lower Intelligence, Faith and Arcane.

For a new time player I'd suggest with going with the Vagabond, unless one of the other options above really appeals to you. You have an excellent kit from the start and can upgrade in any direction you want. Level up your Strength and Dexterity to gain access to many different weapons, and your good Vigor, Endurance and armor will keep you alive early on. Make sure to level up your Vigor to at least 20 ASAP and steadily climb to 40 as you proceed. Endurance increases both your carry weight and your stamina. It's best to only equip the weapons you're actually using unless you can afford the weight of the best armor you have access to. New armor sets are slim pickings in the early game, but later on you unlock some pretty nice stuff. Note that two-handing your weapon increases you Strength to 150% for purposes of stat requirements and damage output, so if you wanted to wield the Greatsword with two hands having 21 Strength is enough compared to the 31 that is listed.

Also don't sell any weapons or armor unless they were dropped from a fodder enemy. The game is very stingy of what you can buy and once sold you won't be able to get it back.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,164
So I am new to dark soul games.

What is a good starting character/class for beginners?

It also seems that the starting points that each class has are different.

So should I take the class with the most total points?

And is an allround character a feasible option?

Starting classes only matter if you want to min/max, and you only want to min/max for PvP (because of the agreed level cap the community has decided, which i think is SL150 for this game), and even there the difference can be minimal.

For instance, my current build doesn't require any points in Int at all. I started as a Prophet, so i have 7 points in Int. If i had started as a Wretch, with the exact same stat distribution, i'd be three levels higher than i am now because the Wretch has 10 points in Int.

Maybe if you are an hardcore PvPer those three levels matter, but for the most part we are talking about a real minor difference. Especially once you reatched the soft cap in your primaty stats those three levels are going to be even more irrelevant.

A bigger problem would be if you picked a class devoted to magic for instance (like the Astrologer), but then at some point you decided you want to become an incantation user. That means you are now going to have to deal with 16 in Int which might be a waste of points, all though there are actually incantations that require some intelligence so it wouldn't necessarily be a total loss if you wanted to use those.

In fact, this game has gone a long way to make all classes viable even if you decided to radically change your build. To use the example of the Astrologer again, what if you wanted to make a pure melee build that doesn't use spells? You now have 15 in Mind and 16 point in Int which may seem wasted, except weapon arts use FP points, so those extra points in Mind aren't totally useless, and there's a couple of utility sorceries you can use with those 16 points in Int.

Ideally, if you are the type of person who likes to radically change build out of nowhere, the Wretch is probably the best pick since this class has no role committment of any kind. Keep in mind though that you have only a limited number of respecs and with 10 character slots if you wanted to go from Priest to Mage you might as well start with another character.

And yes, jack of all trades are viable. In fact, one of the best weapons in the game requires a 24 in both Int and Faith and there's also a seal that allows you to cast both incantations and sorceries so if you want to make a build that uses all spells, you can.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
11,759
So I am new to dark soul games.

What is a good starting character/class for beginners?

It also seems that the starting points that each class has are different.

So should I take the class with the most total points?

And is an allround character a feasible option?
Since you're new to the Souls games, if you find yourself experiencing great difficulty with Elden Ring's combat, which seems to occur for many new to the series, you could try playing Demon's Souls as the Royal class or Dark Souls as the Knight class. :M

The aggregate total of starting ability points barely matters in any of the games; it's more about starting equipment and what kind of build the distribution of starting ability scores is best aimed at progressing.
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
7,528
So I am new to dark soul games.

What is a good starting character/class for beginners?

It also seems that the starting points that each class has are different.

So should I take the class with the most total points?

And is an allround character a feasible option?
Since you're new to the Souls games, if you find yourself experiencing great difficulty with Elden Ring's combat, which seems to occur for many new to the series, you could try playing Demon's Souls as the Royal class or Dark Souls as the Knight class. :M

The aggregate total of starting ability points barely matters in any of the games; it's more about starting equipment and what kind of build the distribution of starting ability scores is best aimed at progressing.
I just started Demon's Souls as Wanderer and I already want to restart as the Royal or knight.
 

Nathir

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
1,090
So I am new to dark soul games.

What is a good starting character/class for beginners?

It also seems that the starting points that each class has are different.

So should I take the class with the most total points?

And is an allround character a feasible option?

Just pick whoever you think looks the coolest. And level up to use weapons/spells that you think are cool.
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
Patron
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
11,477
Location
Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
I just started Demon's Souls as Wanderer and I already want to restart as the Royal or knight.

The wanderer is the first class I finished Demon's with. The falchion is awesome. :cry:
Ok I will give it a shot. I wager you did not stand there with a shield the whole game so I can trust your opinion tee hee.

Haha, well, it was a long time ago on the PS3 when the game first released in NA. What I will say is that DeS cares about damage type at least as much as Elden Ring and possibly even more so. So the falchion's slashing damage won't be favourable everywhere and will actively screw you in a few places, so remember to find viable alternative damage types.
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
7,528
I just started Demon's Souls as Wanderer and I already want to restart as the Royal or knight.

The wanderer is the first class I finished Demon's with. The falchion is awesome. :cry:
Ok I will give it a shot. I wager you did not stand there with a shield the whole game so I can trust your opinion tee hee.

Haha, well, it was a long time ago on the PS3 when the game first released in NA. What I will say is that DeS cares about damage type at least as much as Elden Ring and possibly even more so. So the falchion's slashing damage won't be favourable everywhere and will actively screw you in a few places, so remember to find viable alternative damage types.
Where the fuck are the bonfires lol?
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
11,759
Where the fuck are the bonfires lol?
There's been a pronounced shift in the Souls series, from Demon's Souls to Elden Ring, in terms of how long players are expected to survive:

Demon's Souls only has archstones at the beginning/end of each level that permits transportation back to the Nexus. There are shortcuts that can be opened, to varying extents, but you need to traverse the level to open those shortcuts; for example, the very first level, that must be completed before any others, requires traversal of nearly the entire level in one go in order to open the portcullis to the boss fight, which is right in front of the starting archstone.

Dark Souls introduced bonfires at which the player can rest, although the number of them was fairly low and teleportation between them was only acquired halfway through the game. Still, this reduced demands on the player to surviving a section of a level, until the next bonfire or shortcut leading back to a previous bonfire.

Dark Souls 2 increased the number of bonfires and allowed teleportation between bonfires from the beginning (somewhat by necessity, since the world was not interconnected in the manner of Dark Souls).

Dark Souls 3 further increased the number of bonfires to an almost ludicrous degree, reducing still more the proportion of a level that a player must survive before reaching safety.

Elden Ring not only contains a vast number of bonfires sites of grace, with teleportation to them permitted from nearly anywhere when not too close to an enemy, but also has stakes of Marika for closer respawning to boss fights and some other encounters. Furthermore, the game often restores health and focus point flasks when defeating enemies. The challenge becomes more about surviving a single fight or encounter zone. :M
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,110
I want you guys to duel.

mediocrepoot is a human marshmallow...

how is there still no plane tickets bitch thread for mediocre and porky

Well, mediocrepoot would have to suggest it, since I am just enjoying myself, butthurting him and his boys. Then he would have to pay for njcluck, dim-dull, and zed doink of banville to back him up, since they can only take on Porky in numbers, kinda like jackals snipping at a lion's ankles. Or any dragon fight in ER...

By the time mediocrepoot has re-financed his hovel to fund this expedition, they would all arrive and realize that I didn't even take them seriously enough to go there. Which I imagine would make them even more butthurt...

Now that porky has finally made an ass of himself for (hopefully) the last time in this thread, I want to remember you all how it all started:

Uh, by beating this game that you idiots think actually takes skill? Lol...

It's funny how some people say "Elden Ring is so easy", while others say "ER is insanely difficult". Until you realize that the former are playing with summons, OP weapons/builds, after following streamers'/online guides, etc, while the latter are trying to play it like an actual aRPG.

But I guess in 2022, Codex is ok with that kind of shit. Soon, the "RTFM" of the 80s/90s will turn into "WTFSF (watch the fucking streamer first)". :negative:
Of all his shit takes that show how he understands nothing about this game and (probably) life in general, this is still the funniest to me. I love how the curse that makes everything he says untrue struck him once again, and in the end he, the one who said "ER is insanely difficult", turned out to be the one to use summons, OP weapons, and online guides. Sometimes I wonder if he sees how reality contradicts every single thing he says.

I guess you are really bad at reading comprehension, my slow friend. Everything I said there is still 100% true. I tried (and succeeded) at playing ER as a proper RPG up until Godskin Duo or so. At that point, I realized the designers aren't really being serious, and countered their cheese with my own. How does that negate anything I've said? ER is very easy with cheese, and next to impossible without. Good god man, take some reading lessons so I won't have to keep embarrassing you here.

Took out Radagon and his bedroom pet Elden Breast by maximum amount of cheese. I mean I did it all here people, switched to Fingerprint Shield for max holy damage negation, summoned a mimic tear, applied fire grease to weapon (it does really good things to Elden Breast). For bonus points, watch Porky sit on the throne as he rightfully deserves at the end, after completing yet another difficult game:
Try rolling next time

Nah, got bored of rolling after completing DaS3.
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
7,528
It's not a broken mess. Should you play it? You are in Israel so you might appreciate all the El references.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,110
As El Grande Jefe says, it's not broken at all. Other than some stutter issues, it's a very polished game. The problem is it's a giant open world aRPG with absolute shit combat, lot of asset re-use, and horribly obscure quests and storylines.
 

Caim

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
15,468
Location
Dutchland
What about on PC? Also, any good torrents that support multiplayer?
Elden Ring's got an excellent torrent.

1645884502_Elden-Ring-paard-mount-Alles-wat-je-moet-weten-over.jpg
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,164
Lmao, i totally cheesed the Wyrm in Volcano Manor with spells.

Enough is enough of this shit.

Onward to the fatso.
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,138
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I don't doubt that a quick katana might be more damaging. But I don't find colossal swords lacking with their huge Poise damage and enemy stagger.
Just so you know, according to the wiki a fully charged R2 on a colossal sword does 40 poise damage, meanwhile the Unsheate L2->R2 does 30 while being much faster and almost as damaging
rating_negativeman.png
I don't think the wiki is very accurate with poise dmg values. Unsheathe is not that great for posture damage. I remember testing a bunch of posture-damaging weapon arts on the omen in capital underground and unsheathe was the only one among them that did not posture break in 2 casts. Comparatively Square off, lion's claw (lion's claw pancakes enemies as well), Flame of the redmanes, impaling thrust, glintstone pebble and many others all poise broke the omen in 2 casts. And I don't even mention the pure damage AoW like sword dance which can be slotted on greataxes or halberds. Unsheathe is fine but I don't think it's as amazing as people make it out to be.
Interesting. When testing stuff against Bell Bearing Hunter, the Colossal Sword would poise break him in two charged R2 and a Lion's Claw, while the Uchigatana did it in two charged R2 and two Unsheathe, suggesting it is indeed 40 and 30 respectively. (or it might have been two hits for the Colossal and three from the Uchi, not sure but same ratio)

Lion's Claw is certainly my favourite though, because of its good range, fast movement and crouched position at the end that makes enemy attacks miss and significant hyperarmour all make it a greatly reliable trading tool.

Also static Poise damage values for whole weapon categories seem skewed on a fundamental level. For me different colossal swords have different Poise damage values/multipliers.
For example a Zweihander clearly has far less stagger potential then a Greatsword. And I think there are likely moveset factors/multipliers also.
 

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