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Etrian Odyssey. (AKA, weeboo Wizardry)

ryz

Novice
Joined
Dec 11, 2019
Messages
15

Cool, thanks a lot for the explanation. I'll make sure to, uh, avoid these (aka abuse the hell out of these)
 

680x0

Learned
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Messages
128
Should I start the series at 1 or jump into a "better" title? I just picked up all 9 titles for cheap.
 

ryz

Novice
Joined
Dec 11, 2019
Messages
15
Should I start the series at 1 or jump into a "better" title? I just picked up all 9 titles for cheap.

If you’re not a chronologyfag like me who must experience the evolution in game mechanics, i’d say you can safely skip EO1 as it’s missing a lot of the QoL features. The titles also have no real connection in terms of narrative (if you’re playing these games for the story you’re doing it wrong anyway).

I’d say EO4 is probably a good title to get into EO, or maybe EOU1 (just don’t play story mode please).

but if you have and are going to play all titles anyway (hope you have 1000h to spare) then start with EO1 and play them chronologically.
 

680x0

Learned
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Messages
128
Should I start the series at 1 or jump into a "better" title? I just picked up all 9 titles for cheap.

If you’re not a chronologyfag like me who must experience the evolution in game mechanics, i’d say you can safely skip EO1 as it’s missing a lot of the QoL features. The titles also have no real connection in terms of narrative (if you’re playing these games for the story you’re doing it wrong anyway).

I’d say EO4 is probably a good title to get into EO, or maybe EOU1 (just don’t play story mode please).

but if you have and are going to play all titles anyway (hope you have 1000h to spare) then start with EO1 and play them chronologically.

I will probably do Mystery Dungeon 1st since I am more familiar with the genre and then start with OG 1. God help me.
 

Kaivokz

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
1,499
I'm playing through EO1 untold and the itemization is really boring. Collecting monster materials and making new gear is cool, but having only 4 item slots and generic progression (+5 more attack, +5 more attack) kills the excitement of exploring.

Are there any recent (last decade or so) dungeon crawlers in this style with good, varied itemization? Artifacts that actually feel worth exploring the dungeon for.
 

Ysaye

Arbiter
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
771
Location
Australia
I'm playing through EO1 untold and the itemization is really boring. Collecting monster materials and making new gear is cool, but having only 4 item slots and generic progression (+5 more attack, +5 more attack) kills the excitement of exploring.

Are there any recent (last decade or so) dungeon crawlers in this style with good, varied itemization? Artifacts that actually feel worth exploring the dungeon for.

I like the mid-level to high level gear and crafting in the Elminage games (particularly Elminage Gothic) - generally has all kinds of cool effects and variations - eg. crafting rings / armor from ores that provides massive regeneration boosts per turn or weapons with poison etc. or find weapons that can be used to cast lightning / fireballs with unlimited uses etc.. Be warned though - this is more hardcore than Etrian Odyssey.
 

Kaivokz

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
1,499
I'm playing through EO1 untold and the itemization is really boring. Collecting monster materials and making new gear is cool, but having only 4 item slots and generic progression (+5 more attack, +5 more attack) kills the excitement of exploring.

Are there any recent (last decade or so) dungeon crawlers in this style with good, varied itemization? Artifacts that actually feel worth exploring the dungeon for.

I like the mid-level to high level gear and crafting in the Elminage games (particularly Elminage Gothic) - generally has all kinds of cool effects and variations - eg. crafting rings / armor from ores that provides massive regeneration boosts per turn or weapons with poison etc. or find weapons that can be used to cast lightning / fireballs with unlimited uses etc.. Be warned though - this is more hardcore than Etrian Odyssey.
Nice, sounds interesting—I wonder why so few games have hand-placed, unique, interesting items. Crafting is an okay substitute, but the fun of dungeon crawlers for me is being compelled to keep exploring 1) for more levels/character development, 2) to acquire cool new items, and 3) to be challenged by combat and attrition. Taking away 2 removes a lot of motivation, especially once you’ve gotten a build mostly fleshed out.

I’ll check out Elminage Gothic, though, thanks!
 

Ysaye

Arbiter
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
771
Location
Australia
I'm playing through EO1 untold and the itemization is really boring. Collecting monster materials and making new gear is cool, but having only 4 item slots and generic progression (+5 more attack, +5 more attack) kills the excitement of exploring.

Are there any recent (last decade or so) dungeon crawlers in this style with good, varied itemization? Artifacts that actually feel worth exploring the dungeon for.

I like the mid-level to high level gear and crafting in the Elminage games (particularly Elminage Gothic) - generally has all kinds of cool effects and variations - eg. crafting rings / armor from ores that provides massive regeneration boosts per turn or weapons with poison etc. or find weapons that can be used to cast lightning / fireballs with unlimited uses etc.. Be warned though - this is more hardcore than Etrian Odyssey.
Nice, sounds interesting—I wonder why so few games have hand-placed, unique, interesting items. Crafting is an okay substitute, but the fun of dungeon crawlers for me is being compelled to keep exploring 1) for more levels/character development, 2) to acquire cool new items, and 3) to be challenged by combat and attrition. Taking away 2 removes a lot of motivation, especially once you’ve gotten a build mostly fleshed out.

I’ll check out Elminage Gothic, though, thanks!

I think game designers have in general been moving away from hand placed interesting or unique items because it is too easy nowadays for someone to go to an online guide and find "the best weapon in the game can be found by going to X,Y location..." which reduces the "exploration" of it as a game and replayability. Far more exciting if you can create something that the player remembers "I went in, lost half my party and only just got out but nabbed this item that is super cool in the process..." - that is what you want to have the player feel, and that story might be pretty unique to the player, as opposed to the other one. I suppose it is the other side of the foot from creating procedurally generated dungeons (that I personally don't like, at least not without human refinement).
 

Gastrick

Cipher
Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
1,704
While the year is still the same, this is on just the first game in the series.
Combat is very well done and has good challenge, especially in the beginning with the first few FOEs. Party Formation is interesting, there's a learning curve where some party types and classes won't work, and some are great. It's a bit restrictive with the low class count. The OP buff immunize makes stratum/level 3 onward easier. Once you get that you can beat almost all of the bosses on the first try. Despite that they still feel intense and can drain out most of your items. It gets repetitive and tiresome at times, especially since the game is really long. Doing all the side quests contributed to this even though they help add a change of pace. The skill system is definitely poorly implemented in this game. That you can only raise your health and defense by 20% is retarded. You can't even improve both of them with most classes. It's fun when you actually get a good skill, but it's horrendous for useless abilities. Some of the classes also become boring once you've filled out all the useful skills. You have a normal JRPG level-up system underneath which is more important when the skill-system reaches it's limits.
Story is limited but I thought
it being set on earth in the future was cool. They also gave you a mission to holocaust some elves but you only are able to exterminate their guardian monsters.
Mapping out the levels is definitely fun. Gameplay is a step up from the blobber I played before it, Wizardry II.
 

Gastrick

Cipher
Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
1,704
Some things in this thread simply aren't true. Besides darkness and turning floors, it has all the level design tools of the early Wizardries(haven't played much of IV or V though), especially in strydams 3 & 4. You also will occasionally get armor and weapons that are meant for a dozen hours later. You won't be able to buy them immediately but they are there. Relaxing also takes a long time to become worth it.
There's another exploit where to make money fast you create new characters. Then you put all their skill points into one of the gathering skills(take, mine, chop). With that, on the 1st, 2nd and 5th strydams you can make a huge amount of money. Resting or buying items stops being a problem for the rest of the game.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
aweigh Any suggestions for dungeon crawlers with better itemization?

Elminage: Gothic and Elminage: Original would be my first obvious recs. Don't know if you've already played them. Also The Dark Spire on the Nintendo DS as well.

In my opinion Elminage: Gothic achieved almost perfect itemization and almost perfect power curve and balance, especially once you get into the main game, i.e. the so-called "post-game" dungeons. That's when the real game begins. Don't even know why they put them after the credits either since the story never stops, the dungeons are not disconnected from the rest of the game. You continue onwards saving the kingdom, battling the Gods responsible, etc, they just decided to put a credits sequence after you beat Cyclonus.

That's really just the tutorial portion of the game and if you stop there, aside from the fact that you leave 50% of the game unplayed, you will also never get to experience the true gameplay mechanics of the game; you really start to see how all of the game's systems begin growing and reaching their mechanical peaks as you continue delving into those final dungeons and it is marvelous to see these Wizardry systems taken further and further in an organic way. You begin realizing just how much is actually possible with these formulas, and they could even go further someday.

EDIT: Also the second of the so-called "post" dungeons, The Cave of the Ancients, is fantastic. I love that dungeon and it's a true love letter to the genre and to Wizardry. It's the one that's all in wireframe.
 
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Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
Oh yeah, Stranger of Sword City is good too, though it has problems (regarding itemization). You'll see when you play it, though (again, specifically in terms of itemization) it's a huge step up in design quality from their previous games.

Good news is that Exp Inc is releasing a new 'crawler next year, too, so we have that to look foward to. Hope it's good.

EDIT: Briefly the main reason I think SoSC's itemization is a huge upgrade in design quality from the previous game(s) of theirs that I played is because it's their first game without an crafting system. Normally I like crafting but Exp Inc never managed to figure out how to make a good system and their previous game(s) that I played had very clunky decisions like gated items and convoluted materials; the game lacked the enjoyment of finding useful items on the field and while exploring as instead you found materials that were not always immediately useful.

SoSC fixed all of that by... eliminating the crafting and just letting you find stuff that you can use while inside dungeons.
 

Dorarnae

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 21, 2016
Messages
721
Oh yeah, Stranger of Sword City is good too, though it has problems (regarding itemization). You'll see when you play it, though (again, specifically in terms of itemization) it's a huge step up in design quality from their previous games.

Good news is that Exp Inc is releasing a new 'crawler next year, too, so we have that to look foward to. Hope it's good.

EDIT: Briefly the main reason I think SoSC's itemization is a huge upgrade in design quality from the previous game(s) of theirs that I played is because it's their first game without an crafting system. Normally I like crafting but Exp Inc never managed to figure out how to make a good system and their previous game(s) that I played had very clunky decisions like gated items and convoluted materials; the game lacked the enjoyment of finding useful items on the field and while exploring as instead you found materials that were not always immediately useful.

SoSC fixed all of that by... eliminating the crafting and just letting you find stuff that you can use while inside dungeons.

I didn't mind the crafting. the first few entry like generation xth or wizardry xth were a pain because of the interface etc...but it got better with labyrinth cross blood, during the post game you pretty much just farm items, crafting become useless.
my problem with Stranger of sword city is maybe the exploration, which they tried to address with their new game but it kinda failed in my opinion, while it ain't great in SoSc at least the map weren't very big. as for the blueknight wing or whatever they call it here, it's an old game, so expect it to not be as good as stranger of sword city, also is more story focus.
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
I posses a powerful mobile device and would like to play Etrian 5 on it. Any advice? Is it good in general? I thought 4 was disappointing - too easy, too rote. Yes I'm including the 6th stratum.
 

Dorarnae

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 21, 2016
Messages
721
aren't all etrian odyssey easy? 5 was ok in my opinion, just wished it had a few more boss for post game.
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
I don't think so. 1 is quite tricky unless you metagame immunize and 2 is just hard all around. 3 is easier than those and 4 felt almost casual to me. But I honestly wouldn't call 1 or 2 easy - unless you mean the untold stories games?
 

Jermu

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
1,354
I posses a powerful mobile device and would like to play Etrian 5 on it. Any advice? Is it good in general? I thought 4 was disappointing - too easy, too rote. Yes I'm including the 6th stratum.

EO4 and EO1 are my least favorite games and yeah EO4 is quite easy. EO1 is very brutal without immunize. EO5 difficulty is around middle considering all EO games.

If you are looking for challenge EOU1-2 games (classic mode for even more challenge) should be harder than EO4-5
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
You think EOU is worth playing if I've done 1 and 2 already? Should I do story mode?
 

Jermu

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
1,354
yeah EOU games are totally different compared to the originals. EOU1 there is a dungeon which can be only done with story mode so if you want more content go with the story. EOU2 story and classic have access to same content.

I did not mind story modes its your call both are good. Making own party vs more content + more dialogue (you can class change story classes if u feel like it). Story also has 2 exclusive classes gunner is probably the strongest class in the game
 
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Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Okay, I'll try it out. I thought they would not be any good but it's encouraging to hear that you liked them.
 

hackncrazy

Savant
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
415
yeah EOU games are totally different compared to the originals. EOU1 there is a dungeon which can be only done with story mode so if you want more content go with the story. EOU2 story and classic have access to same content.

I did not mind story modes its your call both are good. Making own party vs more content + more dialogue (you can class change story classes if u feel like it). Story also has 2 exclusive classes gunner is probably the strongest class in the game
Are these extra dungeons post/endgame stuff that are really worth or just midgame tier? I'm about to start EOU1 and I'd only be inclined to give away customization if the payback would be top-tier.
 

Jermu

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
1,354
yeah EOU games are totally different compared to the originals. EOU1 there is a dungeon which can be only done with story mode so if you want more content go with the story. EOU2 story and classic have access to same content.

I did not mind story modes its your call both are good. Making own party vs more content + more dialogue (you can class change story classes if u feel like it). Story also has 2 exclusive classes gunner is probably the strongest class in the game
Are these extra dungeons post/endgame stuff that are really worth or just midgame tier? I'm about to start EOU1 and I'd only be inclined to give away customization if the payback would be top-tier.

There are 5 extra floors / 5 bosses and some foes that you miss early-late game but post game / final boss is same for both modes. classic mode is totally fine and if I had to replay this game again I would do classic
 

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