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Europa Universalis IV

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by raw, Aug 10, 2012.

  1. Hóngwèibīng Arcane Vatnik Wumao

    Hóngwèibīng
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    • Brofist x 2
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  2. Riddler Arcane Patron

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    Bubbles In Memoria
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  3. Lady Error █▓▒░ ░▒▓█ Patron

    Lady Error
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    Strap Yourselves In
    It's a fun game, you edgelords. Why else are you still talking about it?

    I have reached the point with the current Russia playthrough where I feel sort of done with it - after I beat the number two great power in a colonial world war. I still might finish my objective of getting Persia and parts of India to establish a good trade network. But even without it I am already almost overpowered.

    Even the new native nations all over the place were kind of fun, since it is different. Not sure if it is an improvement though. I do feel that getting most of North America, as well as Peru and Australia is quite an achievement for Russia - and it shows that focusing on Quest for the New World is a viable strategy for it. You do need to get Iceland or Corsica though for it to work.
     
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  4. Riddler Arcane Patron

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    Bubbles In Memoria
    Burgundy Stronk:
    [​IMG]
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  5. Lady Error █▓▒░ ░▒▓█ Patron

    Lady Error
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    My proof of work:

    [​IMG]
    Not too much has changed, except Castille was obliterated by everyone and I also took some of his islands and colonies. Turks completely gone and Croatia and the Knights stronk.

    [​IMG]
    Allied with Poland and Austria for basically the whole game.

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    The Leviathan mess of North America actually played into my hands. The other colonials did not dare attack the natives while I did and got something like 1000 AE with most of them.

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    Britain inherited the huge Portuguese colonies, of which Cuba, Brazil and Chile rebelled and I helped them.

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    Having the strongest colony in Australia and NZ means it would have been only a matter of time to take over all of it by letting the colony fight on its own.

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    One thing that was a dud was the realization that I get no trade from North America despite a trade route going from there to Siberia. Colonies use the trade nodes for themselves.
     
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  6. Riddler Arcane Patron

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    Divert trade?
     
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  7. Lady Error █▓▒░ ░▒▓█ Patron

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    Is that in the colony options? Or do you mean placing a merchant in the colony trade nodes?
     
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  8. Riddler Arcane Patron

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    Either you get a vassal and hand them the trade nodes and divert trade from them and/or you just use the merchant you get from the CN to transfer trade + light ships, you usually end up with the majority of the trade. Colonial nations divert 50% of their trade by default so you just need to put a merchant in their node.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
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  9. Higher Game Arcane

    Higher Game
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    Russia is capable of over 3000 stated development by 1600. And it should always roll with level 5 advisors after the tech 11 manufactory spam and strategic bankruptcy. For some reason it just feels wrong to play a bro nation like Russia and not power game.

    And by the way you should always state everything in your own subcontinent because you can't use trade companies there, and territories are horrible.
     
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  10. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Don't understand why you would ever need/want to do a bankruptcy as a major. Even on VH Russia should never run out of money.

    Worth noting that you can state something but not full core (saving 50% core cost) it in order to get 50% autonomy and the ability to bank prosperity/use edict while still keeping the normal 25% territory GC cost.
     
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  11. Lady Error █▓▒░ ░▒▓█ Patron

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    The low development areas of Ukraine did not seem worth it to waste admin points on coring them in a state. Though I did not know that just making a state without coring also gives advantages.
     
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  12. Higher Game Arcane

    Higher Game
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    Bankruptcies help you add quality weight by manufactory spam, which is a kind of indirect governing capacity when you think about it. They're simply stronger than courthouses or blowing up past the GC limit too soon. The other alternatives to blowing up too fast are of course innovativeness and colonial regions.

    Level 5 advisors, forts, artillery, cavalry, colonies, great projects, gifts for coalition control, etc all cost lots of money. Russia needs money more than most because it has such good manpower.

    This is handy for smaller nations, but Russia has the governing capacity to comfortably fit all of Eastern Europe even if it requires courthouses and state houses and great projects. Everything else can be a trade company and should be, once the bankruptcy era is over.

    When they have your same religion, culture, and subcontinent then they're naturally best as states.
     
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  13. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    You say you go bankrupt because you don't want to build courthouses, then you say that want to state all of europe. Which is it? The easy way to handle everything GC-related while making all the money you need is to just state without coring as I said above. Bankruptcy ultimately means wasting a lot of time and mana on something you don't really need since you can just make more money by being at war and taking war reps + land.

    You should make more than enough money just spamming sell land to estates as anyone imo. It's absurd how powerful hitting that button on cooldown is.
     
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  14. Higher Game Arcane

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    Manufactories are the first priority, usually followed by courthouses. Everything should be a state for as long as possible before switching to trade companies, but when trade companies aren't even possible then states are best. All cored. Autonomy is AIDS.

    Selling land to estates is very good early in the game. Smaller nations are pulled down to equilibrium hard if they seize a lot of land so selling is better then to gain more money and size quickly and ultimately make seizing more effective later.

    Bankruptcy isn't so bad as Russia because low legitimacy and thus lots of rebels isn't a problem since you have much more manpower than money, and because the icon with -10% construction cost makes buildings much better. Admin ideas and the burgher privilege will get interest down to 3% which allows for lots of loans and buildings and a quick payback. Going to -100/-100/-100 mana is worth it if that bankruptcy lets you afford to skill up the advisors by 1 from then on. 2 bankruptcies for farm estates (hopefully under the same ruler who dies soon afterward) and 1 for the tech 11 buildings sounds right to me but a fourth one might be needed if Ottomans or Ming start getting really big really early. High quality provinces with the trading bonuses are better than sprawling too much early on.

    I start out with level 2 advisors as Russia from day 1 by the way because of how thirsty Russia is for mana, due to improving the Kazan gold mine to 5/10/5 plus needing to rush buy the renaissance and colonialism.
     
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  15. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Bankruptcy means you aren't fighting wars which means you aren't making ducats from wars. It's silly to go bankrupt. It's also silly to pay for high level advisors then screw your mana by going to -100 in all mana types. Even assuming you only lose 600 mana from going bankrupt that will cost you 1800 ducats in upgrading an advisor from level 1 to level 2 to make back, and even worse if you are upgrading from level 2 to level 3. In the meantime you could have fought a war to show strength which both fucks your competition's strength, lets you take war reps from their allies, and gives you 100/100/100 mana, equivalent to around a thousand ducats at least.

    You absolutely don't need to full core things. It usually doesn't even help you early game. Conquered land is going to be ~50% autonomy anyway and you will have only a little autonomy decrease (or a slight increase over time) thanks to 5% crownland, meaning stated half-cored land is producing about the same or only a little less than full cored land. The only reason to full core lands would be if you spammed reduce autonomy in all lands, which does work but is kind of annoying since constant rebels. In exchange for keeping half cores you pay 1/4th the GC cost which allows you to blob pretty much endlessly. The only things to full core early game are gold mines (which are also worth reducing autonomy on and devving to 10) and if you run out of things to spend admin on.

    EDIT: Almost forgot, great trick you can do with the half-cored state thing. Whenever you get an institution you can unstate all that land to easily and cheaply embrace, then restate the next month and go right back to 50% autonomy. There's also the government reform that reduces the autonomy floor by 10% (and some other stuff like the state house and economic ideas).
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
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  16. BING XI LAO FREE KALIN! Patron

    BING XI LAO
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    I spent thousands of hours in this game before deciding it's a cookie clicker with map+armies and now I hate myself.
     
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  17. fantadomat Arcane Edgy Wumao

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    That is why i use it to listen to horror stories :smug:
     
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  18. Chockolate Eye Literate

    Chockolate Eye
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    [​IMG]

    Indonesian vassal mogging is kinda fun to play.
     
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  19. Higher Game Arcane

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    I did a fresh Muscovy start after the latest patch and so far it's 1476, I have 536 development, and I took 36/43 loans for 10008 gold to help me build 24 farm estates, for all of my provinces that can take one. And this was a pretty bad start due to an independent Lithuania that allied Novgorod. I'll make some workshops and churches too and if I cut it too close then I'll sell some land or debase the currency (and if you are truly desperate you can sell a province or two) if I can't make it 10 years due to some random expense.

    There's no possible war worth the manpower (or at all) that can crank out 10k+ gold by this point in the game. And I'm a single war plus annexing Perm and Pskov from hitting the GC limit anyway and I would probably already be there if I had gotten a border friction CB on Lithuania. So it really looks like nothing beats factory spam and a quick bankruptcy to gear up long term wealth.

    Ok now I'm bankrupt and taking 31 gold a month in 1488 (lol) albeit with no army maintenance but I'll be loaded up for any war I want in just a few years. :incline:
     
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  20. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    rofl you're not supposed to build those they are AI traps.

    You've also wasted 15 years of time and tons of mana. If you were going to take loans for anything it should have been to spam mercs and keep blobbing.
     
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  21. fantadomat Arcane Edgy Wumao

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    Fuck,just played some kaiserreich as russia.....and they fucked up the tree lol. What the fuck happened. A year ago the tree was great and interesting,also the internal problems were great and hard,there was even a civil war. Really felt like playing a nation in troubled times,and shitting on germany felt great once you bounced back. Now it is boring,generic and generally meh. Before there was like 20ish focusses about expansion,now they are like tow or three. It is shame how much they had fucked up.
     
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  22. Higher Game Arcane

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    Farm estates are the strongest manufactories because of how early they can be built. Plantations and especially mills are the real AI traps because by then any good player will have level 5 advisors at all times. And the bankruptcy itself is just 5 years and before then you just have to make sure not to stress manpower too hard or let anyone interrupt the manufactory building too much to avoid the third inflation hit. Or spending slightly too much gold and needing to resort to corruption or selling a dud province or two to make it to the end. I always underestimate how much more additional debt you can take after 5 years when the buildings are done and I ended up upgrading the Kremlin to level 2 with the excess just before going bankrupt.
     
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  23. M. AQVILA Arcane

    M. AQVILA
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    And yet I keep returning to it. If only Paradox wasn't such a terrible company.
     
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  24. Riddler Arcane Patron

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    Why does long-term wealth matter at all though? You have more than enough resources with Muscovy just to go hard from the start of the game without ever really pausing.

    I did a quick trial run and by 1475 i had almost 700 dev, no loans, 500 in the bank, no coalition against me and if i stop garrisoning my forts i even run a surplus. What am i supposed to do with all the extra resources? I've never had a real shortage and i will only get more from here on out.
    I did this at constant 5 speed and while i'm experienced with the game i dont believe I'm in any way an expert. Muscovy starts without any enemies that can stand against it unless it intentionally provokes them and can easily avoid coalitions by alliances. Perhaps things are different if one plays at very hard.
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  25. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    It's pretty much impossible to get in a situation where you need more than 5ish loans if you play a major on normal difficulty. And most of those situations involve random events stealing your money.
     
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