evil / demonic rpg

[Clockwork Knight]

I think it's a chicken-and-the-egg thing. Developers know that, give the option between good and evil characters, most people will play a good guy first, so they don't feel compelled to make the evil path just as rewarding.

"Interesting" example of "good or bad" I recently found in Kingdoms of Amalur.

Spoiler

You meet a girl whose parents were apparently killed by giant spiders, but she thinks they were actually murdered by the farm hand, who was present but refuses to talk about the subject, saying only that he had to escape before the monsters caught him too. You go to the other side of the spider-infested woods and sure enough, the bodies have stabbing marks on their backs, the spiders just arrived later to eat them. When you confront said farm hand, he tells you that he was actually buddies with them during the war so they hired him when they came back home to become farmers. But the war became a problem again and they wanted to go back. Unlike them, he promised he wouldn't ever go back to that hellhole so he murdered them to be able to stay in the farm, but he actually likes the girl and will keep working as her helper now that she owns the property. You can choose whether to reveal the truth to the girl (which involves the guy attacking you), or to tell her that her folks were indeed killed by wild animals (which involves a very minor money reward - he's a farmer, after all).

I was thinking for a few minutes - funny, a quest where the good and evil choices aren't immediately obvious. Do I tell her that they were betrayed by a close friend (who is now dead so she's completely alone), or do I let her think it was just an unfortunate event? I decided to not tell her the truth. She is surprised that the helper was indeed innocent, but gives me some kickass gauntlets that her parents brought back from the war, thanking me for bringing her peace of mind.

Feeling satisfied, I checked a faq to see what would happen if I told her the truth. Sure enough, she gives you some kickass gauntlets that her parents brought back from the war, thanking you for bringing her peace of mind. Why the hell did you bother writing the quest that way if I'm gonna get the same result no matter my decision, dipshits?

 

[Bulba]

If you put the greater good in behind the scenes it kinda kills the point of being evil. Pesonal gain is fine through (like immortality/becoming god/king).

 

[Ovg]

That depends on what kind of evil you want to act upon.

 

[Euth]

Tundra,

Tecmo's Deception may interest you. It's an action game with RPG elements, not a true RPG, but pretty much aligns with what you're looking for in terms of the overall plot and themes: "The player takes on the role of an unjustly executed man, who pleads to the devil to spare his life at the moment of his demise. The devil (explicitly referred to as 'Satan' in the manual) grants his request, and gives him command over the 'Castle of the Damned'... Your sole purpose in this game is to ensure the resurrection of this nefarious lord of negativity and to obtain his terrifying power."

 

[Cool name]

The first sequel to Tecmo's Decepcion, Kagero, and the third one, known as Trapt in the western world, do take the evil path in direction most interesting. The second sequel, Dark Delusion, is not nearly as dark as the rest of the saga. And while the situation the characters do find themselves in Kagero and Trapt do offer a good excuse for their fall into abject darkness the evil options do soon become devoid of any moral justification. The characters do not even try to justify themselves. They are completely gone.

 

[lightbane]

Was there an "evil" path in Trapt? IIRC the main character was "naive" and extremely psychothic no matter what (the "best" ending has her becoming the ruler of a land with no people, as you killed pretty much everyone).

Also, there's actually a "good" path in old SMT games, the Neutral path, which ensures both God and the Devil wants you dead because common sense is THE EVIL.

For an evil (action) rpg, I would say Drakengard: You play as Caim, a mute prince who hates the Generic Empire of Evil TM, but he's a true mass murderer that will kill everything and everyone vaguely related with the Empire (women and children included), to the point that even a bloodthirsty dragon calls him out of his bloodlust. The best part is that no-one in that game was really good, in fact, the supporting cast was even worse, with each new party member being crazier than the last.

Spoiler

You know something is really wrong when there's one little kid that commits a terrible atrocity that not even Caim himself would do.

Then there are the endings, becoming progressively more and more fucked up. It truly was a dark game.

 

[flabbyjack]

I had a thread on this: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/necromancy-or-anti-hero-rpgs-games.35249/

Results of the discussion was the following list;
Eador
Dungeon Keeper/Dungeon Keeper 2
Bone Kenning and Necromancer (Mods for NWN)
'Battle For Wesnoth had a necromancery campaign'
DOMINIONS 3 <- This is now one of my favorite games, its strategy but it's freaking fantastic! See details here: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...cy-or-anti-hero-rpgs-games.35249/#post-863163
Revenant
'HoM&M IV had an amazing Death campaign. Goldot (the protagonist), his goals, his methods and his personality were one big fuck you to the common portrayal of necromancers'

 

[Kaldurenik]

Anyone have any more suggestions ?

 

[Haba]

Not really. Well, some jRPG/SLG's have evil routes as well, but they are not too well defined imho (the evil route of Aselia the Eternal and Daiteikoku CORE route are pretty fucked up though)

 

[Haba]

I think there have been a few cases of antagonists taunting the hero for being a glorified mass murderer - which is pretty much true.

If I had the time and the monies, I'd make a RPG where the stalwart hero saves the kingdom, only to find out that the people have hard time accepting a bloodied killer as their saviour. Maybe even make him discover that the enemies he has savoured slaying were actually innocent (one wargame design I had had the player discover that the enemy mecha pilots were actually little children grafted into the machine).

Top it off with the romantic interest dumping the character for acting the way that you normally act in Bioware RPG's ("You don't treat me as a real person, I'm just a masturbatory aid for your ego!") and the player character ending up as a nervous wreck of PTSD ridden guilt.

And naturally do this after a good 50 hours of standard emotionally engaging RPG romp.

 

[Cool name]

@ lightbane: I do take the path on which Alicia does kill 'that girl' as the evil one. It does echo of the situation in which Millenia did kill 'that guy' in Kagero. In both cases I do see 'that' victim as the one that defines the character as one fitting to become 'that thing.' No matter how innocent they are all the other victims are not significant as they do have no real connection to the girl in question. They are just intruders. Faceless lambs. 'That' victim does mark the moment in which the character does cut all ties with her own humanity and does become 'it.'

But Raina is truly a good girl. Her 'bad' ending is not even her own fault.

And good call with Drakengard. It does have a very similar feel to the Deception games.



Back on topic does someone remember the name of that game in which you did play as a psychopath who did trap people on his basement to torture them as they did try to escape?

 

[lightbane]

Beautiful Escape: Dungeoneer.

http://rpgmaker.net/games/2068/

I didn't like it, perhaps it was because I somehow still have a shred of humanity that makes me feel horrible after playing this... Or perhaps because I found it boring as fuck and very repetitive.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

It's a little off topic but have any RPGs addressed the cognitive dissidence created by protagonists that mow through and kill wave after wave of mooks but then place great value in individual lives when offered moral choices? Some games get ridiculous with it. The Assassins Creed series for example.

I've always thought how the extreme violence that the average video game protagonist regularly commits would effect their values and perception of the world/others is something that would be worth exploring in an RPG.

The only game I can think of off of the top of my head that does this is Hotline Miami, not an RPG though.

I think there are plenty of games that have you learn the villainous mooks were in fact not mooks, but it sounds like what you are asking is for a game that undermines the very idea that there can be mooks, the wanton slaughter of which is justified. The only game I can think of that does this NIER, which also isn't an rpg, its an action game with light rpg elements. The plot itself is of the standard anime "attempted mindfuck twist", but the way your knowledge of the plot expands on New Game+ is an interesting approach.

Basically the first playthrough is pretty typical, slaughter, fetch, slaughter etc. The mooks are mindless monsters. Except there are a couple quests in which the mooks seem to be peaceful. Obviously you kill them anyway. Then, on New game+, there are subtitles for major fights, translating what the enemies say while you are killing them. This, coupled with the origin of the mooks revealed in the endgame, makes them fairly sympathetic. But you keep on slaughtering them! So it seems kind of clear that the game is telling you that you are, if not the bad guy, definitely not the good guy.

My favorite touch:

Spoiler

The mooks are the science ghosts (don't ask) of humans. Game world humans are actually the bodies meant for the science ghosts that gained consciousness. The single enemy you probably kill the most of are child sized mooks, who drop things like toys and school bags.

 

[Essegi]

It's not an rpg but a tbs with character progression, it could be interesting "Age Of Fear 2 : The Chaos Lord", just available from yesterday...
There's one campaign with a succubus as main character and the other one orc based...
I don't know how much evil it is but there should be the demonic theme... Anyway the first one is a very good game, i enjoyed the writing too...