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Fallout .

Fallout 1 represents:


  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
Fallout was the first cRPG that I felt I was playing a PnP session, despite the combat, I enjoy it for the things it did well, it managed to create a really powerful composition with each element from art, music, writing, world building, level design, gameplay all feeding each other and making the whole more powerful than its parts, it is a member of a very small club of games that achieved that. Saying it was a decline RPG by taking the combat out of the the composition and only looking at it, sure, you may even be right but that is kinda of missing the point of what the game was actually trying to achieve.

If you look to games like Wasteland 3, if you only look to the combat, it has a more complex combat than Fallout 1 but it is a mediocre cRPG still because it failed into creating that powerful coherent composition. It is a disjointed game where the parts are brutally forced together without any elegance and end being a bizarre game where you have a guy on the radio singing a christimas carol selling drugs made on his lab by his slave elves and then right afterwards you see a tragic confrontation of a companion of yours with the guy that killed her family, also, most places have that video game level feeling instead of looking like real places that could actually exist, the parts actually when placed together make the game worse.
 

madbringer

Arcane
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
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Location
the vast
Throughout this post I'll refer to the "gameplay elements" of a game as well as the "entertainment elements".

Gameplay is ay elements

Despite how [blah blah blah some bullshit]

PUpgeye.jpg
 
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almondblight

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
2,549
What it does in terms of C&C, sensation of scarcity build into the mechanics, building an outstanding atmosphere and having mechanics back up the roleplaying in each aspect of the game is where it truly shines.

Did it have good C&C though? There were a handful of quests that had multiple solutions, but I don't think that's the same thing. In terms of actual C&C, you get two occasions where you have to make a choice between factions, and the factions are "generic good faction" and "generic bad faction" (Junktown and the Boneyard). There are numerous quests where your choices seem to have no consequences (IE, working for Decker doesn't cause any issues with you working with the sheriff to take down Decker), as well as quests that should give you a choice but don't (IE, there's no choice to side with the vault rebels, you either have to help the Overseer or simply ignore the whole situation).
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,488
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote except the conclusion. Similar to what Bester said, I'd say Fallout is way beyond incline/decline (local) terms. Fallout set a new bar, opened a new chapter in the genre, it's called classics for that reason, not because it's flawless (it wasn't). If it showed that entertaining values needed a huge push - then great, not Fallout's fault that many future devs decided to shift focus on it even further. Yet again, take a look at UnderRail which took similiar approach to the entertaining part and significatly improved the gameplay one.
Did it have good C&C though? There were a handful of quests that had multiple solutions, but I don't think that's the same thing. In terms of actual C&C, you get two occasions where you have to make a choice between factions, and the factions are "generic good faction" and "generic bad faction" (Junktown and the Boneyard). There are numerous quests where your choices seem to have no consequences (IE, working for Decker doesn't cause any issues with you working with the sheriff to take down Decker), as well as quests that should give you a choice but don't (IE, there's no choice to side with the vault rebels, you either have to help the Overseer or simply ignore the whole situation).
Fallout have good C&C in PnP terms: your session is pretty heavy depends on character's stats you've chosen. It's so basic that many people take it for granted and essentially dismiss it and yet many RPGs don't have that.
 
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koyota

Cipher
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216
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You didn`t bring it up, but I notice nowadays that people complain about Fallout 1 graphics ”It was even bad back then!” and it flabbergasts me.

Playing Death Trash / Celeste whatever, The simple interface and stylistic CG of Fallout graphics look better and cleaner and more desolate than pixel art games that are all the rage nowadays.

Pre-rendered nature and art direction makes it clearer than stuff like Atom RPG or Wasteland 2 of today.

Not bashing on hyper-stylized Death Trash, it knows what it is doing.

Just defending CG of fallout and wishing we could have a revival of that art style also..
 
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Kev Inkline

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Messages
5,072
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Just defending CG of fallout and wishing we could have a revival of that art style also..

Pre-rendered isometric (or cavalier, depends who you ask) is my favorite graph style, and it sure has been revived lately, I mean nothing does it better than PoE 1 and 2, setting aside how good or bad they are as games otherwise.
But if you mean the dieselpunkish/50s aesthetics instead of the graphic style, perhaps you're right and we need something new, indeed.

Well, maybe Beautiful Desolation does it better, which is remarkable, being a work of one man, :salute: to Pyke. But that's not an rpg.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,688
You have some nerve bringing this shit to a forum where like 50% users have Fallout avatars.

:mob:
It would be less problematic had it not been written like a shitpost (although of much better quality than the recent thread about Morrowind). At this point it is more likely that sigard is on a quest to trigger people, rather than make a point, especially considering his other threads: A brief tour of the Decline of proper CRPGs.

I mean, look at this:

Notable commonalities between Fallout 1 and Decline era CRPGs:

-single controllable character instead of a party
Nobody sane would argue that RPGs can't have a single controllable characters. Having a group is good for co-op or tactical games, but it is entirely possible to play solo in cRPGs.

Being able to pickpocket someone and put a bomb into his pocket so he explodes is great way of utilizing player's skills. If there is a problem then I would argue it lies in having limited ways to utilize these skills past what the developers intended, but that's what you get for making a narrative-driven and entirely hand-crafted game. Still, Fallout stands out as the poster boy of RPGs for showing how one can tie player's statistics to interactions (including dialogues!), so putting it in "Decline era CRPGs" is plain mockery. So even though it would be possible to polish some of the criticisms and present them as valid ones it's becomes unsalvageable at this point.
 

Alphons

Cipher
Joined
Nov 20, 2019
Messages
2,557
I agree that Fallout 1 is decline, but not for the reasons you've mentioned.

Oh no, Fallout is way worse.

You can manually save and reload!!

Real RPG gamers play Fallout 76 as it gets rid of that built-in cheat system and delivers the ultimate RPG game experience.
 

Justicar

Dead game
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Bester

⚰️☠️⚱️
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I should be playing 1996 games for my monocled list but instead i'm hungry for fallout 1.
So, here is my stat optimised ( minmaxed) build that i started today:

fal1.jpg


st 6 + surgery + power armor = 10
pe 9 + surgery = 10
en 3 + surgery = 4
ch 2 + https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Singer_(Fallout) = 3 ( it is a dump stat in f1 anyway)
in 9 + surgery = 10
ag 9 + surgery = 10
luck 9 + chuck in adytum = 10

gifted is self explanatory, fast shot + bonus rate of fire + turbo plasma rifle + 10 ap = 5 shots per turn

small guns to make early game less painfull
energy weapons because turbo plasma rifle
speech is self explanatory

Now should i go with pe 9 + en 3 or pe 3 + en 9 ???
I suspect that high perception is better than additional hp?
Who plays Fallout with optimised builds in 2023? Play as a dumb chick with high charisma, whom everyone abuses and forces to give blowjobs. That's where it's at.
 

NecroLord

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Sep 6, 2022
Messages
7,914
Location
Southeastern Yurop
I should be playing 1996 games for my monocled list but instead i'm hungry for fallout 1.
So, here is my stat optimised ( minmaxed) build that i started today:

fal1.jpg


st 6 + surgery + power armor = 10
pe 9 + surgery = 10
en 3 + surgery = 4
ch 2 + https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Singer_(Fallout) = 3 ( it is a dump stat in f1 anyway)
in 9 + surgery = 10
ag 9 + surgery = 10
luck 9 + chuck in adytum = 10

gifted is self explanatory, fast shot + bonus rate of fire + turbo plasma rifle + 10 ap = 5 shots per turn

small guns to make early game less painfull
energy weapons because turbo plasma rifle
speech is self explanatory

Now should i go with pe 9 + en 3 or pe 3 + en 9 ???
I suspect that high perception is better than additional hp?
Don't need that much Perception since you won't be a sniper and make a lot of aimed shots.
Perception is more useful in Fallout 2.
Why not make Endurance a 4 or even 5?
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,488
I should be playing 1996 games for my monocled list but instead i'm hungry for fallout 1.
So, here is my stat optimised ( minmaxed) build that i started today:

fal1.jpg


st 6 + surgery + power armor = 10
pe 9 + surgery = 10
en 3 + surgery = 4
ch 2 + https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Singer_(Fallout) = 3 ( it is a dump stat in f1 anyway)
in 9 + surgery = 10
ag 9 + surgery = 10
luck 9 + chuck in adytum = 10

gifted is self explanatory, fast shot + bonus rate of fire + turbo plasma rifle + 10 ap = 5 shots per turn

small guns to make early game less painfull
energy weapons because turbo plasma rifle
speech is self explanatory

Now should i go with pe 9 + en 3 or pe 3 + en 9 ???
I suspect that high perception is better than additional hp?
You should either get sneak or increase END at least to 8 otherwise you will be reloading with your "minmaxed" char. You don't need much INT or STR.
 

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