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Fallout Fallout 4 Thread

Hirato

Purse-Owner
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Codex 2012 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I'm not even mad at Bethesda for dumbing down the skill system the way they did.
A full fledged one is clearly too much for them to handle, so simplifying it down to perks you buy based on your SPECIAL stats is actually genius.
And since they insist, it certainly meshes a lot better with FPS style gameplay too.

Problem is, they did nothing fun or interesting with it.
They went back to the Fallout 3 design of boring perks, and learned nothing from New Vegas' approach.
It was essentially required because of the dumbfuck design. 7 attributes with 10 perks each means they can only put 70 perks in the game, so they made everything have ranks. It's hard to do the interesting bespoke perk design of New Vegas when you then have to design a second or third or fourth rank to it. That means goodbye to Meltdown, Jury Rigging, Long Haul, Silent Running, Light Step, Paralyzing Palm, etc.
You're right that doing 10 perks doesn't help; an uneven distribution would make far more sense.
But even if you take a ranked approach, there's no need to get rid of them all.

What I think they should've done a lot of was lock basic gameplay things behind these perks, with the perks not only unlocking them, but powering them up to almost cheating levels.
Consider if perception had an opening ranked perk like follows:
Firearm Handling I (Pe 1) - Boost to firearm damage, and allows you to aim with iron-sights and scopes.
Firearm Handling II (Pe 3) - Boost to firearm damage, faster reloading speed, and allows reloading on the run.
Firearm Handling III (Pe 6) - Boost to firearm damage, and allows dual-wielding of pistols.
Firearm Handling IV (Pe 10) - Boost to firearm damage, allows you to trigger a bullet time at will that will drain your AP.

And agility had a lockpick series like this:
Lockpicking I (Ag 1) - Allows you to pick locks, period.
Lockpicking II (Ag 4)- Makes lockpicking easier, and allows you to force locks open (or fail and jam them), or breach them with controlled explosives
Lockpicking III (Ag 7) - Makes lockpicking easier, and allows you to set up proximity booby traps on containers and doors.
Lockpicking IV (Ag 9) - Makes lockpicking easier, and allows you to replace the locks on doors, and lock them - idea being that you can block enemy routes, and/or cheese them.


I came up with these in about 10 minutes, if Bethesda had the gumpton to attempt anything of the sort, the system would be significantly more interesting.
 

Butter

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It was essentially required because of the dumbfuck design. 7 attributes with 10 perks each means they can only put 70 perks in the game, so they made everything have ranks. It's hard to do the interesting bespoke perk design of New Vegas when you then have to design a second or third or fourth rank to it.
It had more to do with FO4 reinventing how the entire progression system worked. Without dice rolls, skills are just a lot of unused granularity. What's the point of being level 33 or 72 in a skill when every check is 25/50/75/100? Realizing skills had become somewhat extraneous, Bethesda rolled their utility into the perk system. So now skill check 25/50/75/100 is replaced with perk rank 1/2/3/4. Considering you get a perk every level up in FO4 instead of every other level up as with NV, I think it's fine to have these boring perks. Still beats a perk-less level.
I didn't say it was anything to do with wrapping skills into perks. The problem is someone with OCD wanted exactly one perk per point of each SPECIAL, with no exceptions. That means 70 perks, which already isn't a lot, in a game where you get a perk every level and that doesn't have a level cap. It requires multiples ranks on everything, which means that unique effects get scrapped for things that can be more easily scaled.
 

SharkClub

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Strap Yourselves In
It's pretty sad that we've come so far that the 11 year old Xbox shitters who got Fallout 3 for Christmas are now nostalgic over it and think it was some sort of masterpiece.
 

Late Bloomer

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Apr 7, 2022
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2,816
It's pretty sad that we've come so far that the 11 year old Xbox shitters who got Fallout 3 for Christmas are now nostalgic over it and think it was some sort of masterpiece.

Yeah it's always terrible when people had fun playing games and as the years pass remember their favorite games in a positive light. :roll: You don't have games that people consider shit, but you enjoy them regardless?
 

BanEvader

Guest
It's pretty sad that we've come so far that the 11 year old Xbox shitters who got Fallout 3 for Christmas are now nostalgic over it and think it was some sort of masterpiece.
In another 20-30 years, the Fallout 3 shitters will be the oldfags, telling all the youngins how good vidya used to be in their day.
Meanwhile our classics will go the way of arcade games. An entry on some wikipedia list that no one alive has ever played.
All those games will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
It's pretty sad that we've come so far that the 11 year old Xbox shitters who got Fallout 3 for Christmas are now nostalgic over it and think it was some sort of masterpiece.
Yeah. We all know that the things that were happening when you were 12 were objectively better than anything that came before or since.
 

dextermorgan

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So I noticed this was on Game Pass and figured I'd do my due diligence and try a run - Jesus this shit is so boring. It's an achievement of sorts tbh.
 

dextermorgan

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So I noticed this was on Game Pass and figured I'd do my due diligence and try a run - Jesus this shit is so boring. It's an achievement of sorts tbh.

How stunning and brave for you to admit something so controversial.
Yes, I'm widely known around these here forums as the guy that shies away from expressing unpopular opinions :lol:
 

Ravielsk

Magister
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
1,514
Found this series of videos. They seem well though-out and make a lot of interesting points.

First video is all the good things, second video is all the bad plus a recap.

Haven't played the game yet, so can't comment.




MATN? Really? I mean why not post Oxhorn while you are at it he at least has the decency to install booby mods to make his rambling slightly more digestible.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
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Dec 26, 2014
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On the internet, writing shit posts.
I went with Institute.
Because Minutemen are boring and annoying, BoS is overdone and fuck the Railroad.
I also wanted to see why the Institute is considered so evil by the fanbase, and other then them being poorly written, I didn't really see the problem. I've seen worse.
 

Just Locus

Educated
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Mar 11, 2022
Messages
275
I went with Institute.
Because Minutemen are boring and annoying, BoS is overdone and fuck the Railroad.
I also wanted to see why the Institute is considered so evil by the fanbase, and other then them being poorly written, I didn't really see the problem. I've seen worse.
The Institute is comically evil, though comically evil characters are usually written for a joke, but the institute actually wants to be taken seriously, so seriously that they view their vile machinations as "the best for humanity", they do these things and aren't even aware of the ramifications behind their actions, with the paranoia and all that, even when asked for the explanation for why they commit these absurdly evil actions, they simply say "you wouldn't understand", i would've been less confused if they just purposefully corrupted my save file at that moment.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
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Messages
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On the internet, writing shit posts.
I went with Institute.
Because Minutemen are boring and annoying, BoS is overdone and fuck the Railroad.
I also wanted to see why the Institute is considered so evil by the fanbase, and other then them being poorly written, I didn't really see the problem. I've seen worse.
The Institute is comically evil, though comically evil characters are usually written for a joke, but the institute actually wants to be taken seriously, so seriously that they view their vile machinations as "the best for humanity", they do these things and aren't even aware of the ramifications behind their actions, with the paranoia and all that, even when asked for the explanation for why they commit these absurdly evil actions, they simply say "you wouldn't understand", i would've been less confused if they just purposefully corrupted my save file at that moment.
Yeah, as I said, they're really poorly written. Which to me doesn't make them evil with all of the shit they get up to; it just makes them stupid.
Caesar's Legion, the Children of the Cathedral and the Enclave came across as more evil because they were comparatively better written and you knew what they wanted and their actions and motivations made sense (although the Enclave were also sort of cartoon stupid evil).
 
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Silverfish

Arbiter
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Dec 4, 2019
Messages
3,062
You did join the Brotherhood of Steel on your first Fallout 4 playthrough... right?
Railroad because it was the most tolerable faction in presentation.

It says a lot about Fallout 4's presentation in general that the faction who uses their own name as the password to their secret headquarters, who go out of their way to explain that the arrows drawn on their markers indicate directions and who ask you point blank if you'd die to protect glorified toasters is still one of the more tolerable, digestible groups in the game.
 

CthuluIsSpy

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On the internet, writing shit posts.
I actually found them quite insufferable. They're as arrogant and holier than thou as the Institute, except without the means to back up their claims and the game really wants you to like them.
Victoria Watts was a bitch in FO3 and the Railroad in 4 are no different.
 

Valdetiosi

Scholar
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Messages
215
Location
Finland
I actually found them quite insufferable. They're as arrogant and holier than thou as the Institute, except without the means to back up their claims and the game really wants you to like them.
Because unlike Institute they are not mysterious fuck alls who don't tell why they are doing they shit they are doing and for everybody but old cancer patient liking hating me.
Railroad gives the best companion, ability to add armor mods for clothing and has better aesthetics at their base than Institute.
Besides it's clear what they do and unlike Minutemen isn't as generic.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
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Dec 26, 2014
Messages
7,940
Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
Yeah, and what they want to do is stupid. Yes, free the immortal androids that are stronger and faster than humans and are prone to malfunction by screwing around with their programming and blending them into society, what can possibly go wrong?
The game trying to make a parallel between them and Black slaves doesn't help matters. It was dumb when David Cage did it and it was dumb here.

Both the Institute and Railroad are idiots, but with the Institute there is at least some degree of ambiguity and it's heavily implied that you can determine what their end game is (which was done in a really shoddy and lazy way, imo, indicating to me that the writers didn't know what to do with them either and just went "fuck it, let the player decide"). The railroad doesn't have that. You know exactly what they want and what they stand for, and it's idiotic.

Also, you mean to tell me a bunch of hobos in a basement have the means to take on the BoS and the Institute? Hobos who "hide" their base in the most obvious way possible, and the Institute doesn't wipe them out for...reasons? Who somehow have the means to make powerful railgun tech out of garbage? Really?
 
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Silverfish

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
3,062
Yeah, and what they want to do is stupid. Yes, free the immortal androids that are stronger and faster than humans and are prone to malfunction by screwing around with their programming and blending them into society, what can possibly go wrong?

Worse than that is the fact that, if you can stomach them long enough to complete the main story while aligned with them, they nuke the Institute, thus rendering the synths their whole operation revolves around into an endangered species.
 

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