Fallout Tactics (in 2020)

[Cael]

I mostly agree.
Whilst you do get a lot of weapons, a lot of them are pretty useless, especially late game. You'd think 9mm AP rounds would actually, you know, be effective against armour but they are still pretty rubbish.
Progression follows this odd path where entire weapon types get invalidated as the game progress. Which is terrible for builds and makes a lot of your recruits useless unless they have big guns or energy weapons.
Compare this to Wasteland 2 where most weapons are still viable, even energy weapons which do have a niche.

Wasteland does the whole party based squad RPG thing a little better, imo.

That said, I do want there to be another game like it. I would not mind there being another Fallout Tactics game, except with Real Time with pause because Wasteland is already turn based.
Kind of like the difference between UFO and X-COM.

Wasteland's take on energy weapons is pretty bad, though. It is pretty much the worst possible ranged weapon type you can have. There is no point to it. I never bother with energy weapons in WL2. Snipers and Assaults all the way.

True, it's not great, but you can at least tell they have have a purpose. It's just not well executed.
Energy weapon specialists shine when they are against targets that EW are designed to counter. It's just that such enemy types aren't as common as they should be and enemies can have stupid armour levels without counting as conductive for some silly reason. EW were actually better in non-DC, iirc, because they just countered heavy armour.
Compare this to tactics where they intentionally made most weapon types redundant as the game progresses, including 9mm AP. Which they give you a lot of when the robots show up.

It doesn't matter if they end up being just about as damaging as a sniper rifle or an assault rifle against heavy armour. There is no point in using it when other weapons are just as good vs armour, and far better vs everything else.

 

[luj1]

I mostly agree.
Whilst you do get a lot of weapons, a lot of them are pretty useless, especially late game. You'd think 9mm AP rounds would actually, you know, be effective against armour but they are still pretty rubbish.
Progression follows this odd path where entire weapon types get invalidated as the game progress. Which is terrible for builds and makes a lot of your recruits useless unless they have big guns or energy weapons.
Compare this to Wasteland 2 where most weapons are still viable, even energy weapons which do have a niche.

Wasteland does the whole party based squad RPG thing a little better, imo.

That said, I do want there to be another game like it. I would not mind there being another Fallout Tactics game, except with Real Time with pause because Wasteland is already turn based.
Kind of like the difference between UFO and X-COM.

Wasteland's take on energy weapons is pretty bad, though. It is pretty much the worst possible ranged weapon type you can have. There is no point to it. I never bother with energy weapons in WL2. Snipers and Assaults all the way.

Do FoT Redux and Equillibrium fix these weapon issues?

 

[Cael]

I mostly agree.
Whilst you do get a lot of weapons, a lot of them are pretty useless, especially late game. You'd think 9mm AP rounds would actually, you know, be effective against armour but they are still pretty rubbish.
Progression follows this odd path where entire weapon types get invalidated as the game progress. Which is terrible for builds and makes a lot of your recruits useless unless they have big guns or energy weapons.
Compare this to Wasteland 2 where most weapons are still viable, even energy weapons which do have a niche.

Wasteland does the whole party based squad RPG thing a little better, imo.

That said, I do want there to be another game like it. I would not mind there being another Fallout Tactics game, except with Real Time with pause because Wasteland is already turn based.
Kind of like the difference between UFO and X-COM.

Wasteland's take on energy weapons is pretty bad, though. It is pretty much the worst possible ranged weapon type you can have. There is no point to it. I never bother with energy weapons in WL2. Snipers and Assaults all the way.

Do FoT Redux and Equillibrium fix these weapon issues?

They try, but like I said, they also introduced uber-weapons (like the .50 cal sniper rifle) which makes the rest of the weapons moot.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Why, is the .50 better than the gauss? because if so, that's pretty dumb.
I'd understand it if it's meant to bridge the gap between the sniper rifle and gauss rifle, but if it's just flat out better than that's kind of silly, especially when behemoths drop .50 ammo.

Speaking of them, how are you supposed to efficiently fight them? They have a lot of health and can two shot even power armour.

 

[Cael]

Why, is the .50 better than the gauss? because if so, that's pretty dumb.
I'd understand it if it's meant to bridge the gap between the sniper rifle and gauss rifle, but if it's just flat out better than that's kind of silly, especially when behemoths drop .50 ammo.

Speaking of them, how are you supposed to efficiently fight them? They have a lot of health and can two shot even power armour.

.50 cal has DU ammo. DU ammo is 80% penetration. Think about that for a second.

And then realise that the only .50 cal weapon in the game fires them in lots of 15, which means you tend to go through .50 cal very quickly. A sniper rifle uses one at a time.

I can't remember what the damage on that thing was. Probably in the 50-60 range, which is far higher than the sniper rifle, but not as high as the gauss rifle. With 80% penetration, though, it doesn't matter...

Behemoths are very hit and miss. You need to aim for the head and pray for a knock out shot. Once you knock out lock it, it is just a matter of concentrating fire and taking it out. A squad of snipers should be able to handle them one at a time with a bit of luck.

The other thing is to go prone. It supposedly helps against incoming MG fire, although I haven't really tested that exhaustively due to my playstyle.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Isn't DU super rare though? I've yet to actually find any.
It sounds the issue is more DU rounds then, because standard .50 has no penetration bonus. But since they are incredibly rare (at least in vanilla), it doesn't seem to that much of an issue, especially when the M2 consumes a lot of them.

 

[Cael]

Isn't DU super rare though? I've yet to actually find any.
It sounds the issue is more DU rounds then, because standard .50 has no penetration bonus. But since they are incredibly rare (at least in vanilla), it doesn't seem to that much of an issue, especially when the M2 consumes a lot of them.

St Louis has 600 DU rounds, IIRC, if you play your cards right. That is enough to last you the rest of the game using the sniper rifle or half a map with the M2.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

True, but those are guarded by high level mutants who will one shot your troops by the time you fight them. You'd think that the mod makes would remove or decrease those anyway, knowing that they could break the game with the changes they're making.
Outside of St. Louis, it seems there are only 51 rounds in the game. 1 from a random encounter, 50 from Vault 0. So basically the end of the game.

 

[laclongquan]

I am running vanilla though. I think I'm just using High Resolution? I still have more 7.62 than I know what to do with, especially since the only 7.62 that's worth using against robots is the SAW.

He uses burst mode exclusively and love to duel enemies from maximum range, which would explain why he keeps running out. He once told me to dance around at max range, make the enemy run out of ammo, and then kill them as they run in. When you use that kind of strategy, you aren't getting much ammo from enemies.

I have 10s of thousands of 7.62 because I use only aimed shots from ambush. I kill the enemy before they even realise I am there and collect most/all of their ammo. You must be like me in that regard.

No, it has nothing to do with mods. It has everything to do with how he plays.

Yeah. Cael remember correctly.

Back in the vanilla day I remember the SM and the Robot are pretty tough. And if I get in close, those suckers can last long enough (past 2-3 burst) to shoot back with heavy weapons and kill my troops. So a frontal attack really require standing from far to spray the area with bullets. Looted 762 each main map doesnt cover the shot bullets.

Why not ambush you asked? Because it's not fun for me around that time any more. Ambush or sniping from extreme range with max Guns and sniper rifle on max elevation. To make your heart dance it's better to attack frontal. It's not optimized tactic, I know, but it's a fun one.

BUT

But using same tactics, I do have more 762 ammo left in my Equilibrium or Redux though. Which is how I know they messed with the availability of 7.62 weaponry.

 

[luj1]

tactical combat game

RPG

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

tactical combat game

RPG

Unsatisfying mess as both.

 

[Cael]

True, but those are guarded by high level mutants who will one shot your troops by the time you fight them. You'd think that the mod makes would remove or decrease those anyway, knowing that they could break the game with the changes they're making.
Outside of St. Louis, it seems there are only 51 rounds in the game. 1 from a random encounter, 50 from Vault 0. So basically the end of the game.

They fire the DU rounds at YOU if you let then. Key words: Let. Them.

Flip back a few pages. I did a rundown of St Louis and how to take care of those ultra-mutants without them ever firing a round at you. The key is understanding how FOT mechanics work, especially the overwatch mechanic.

There is also another 100 in another container in Vault 0.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

True, but those are guarded by high level mutants who will one shot your troops by the time you fight them. You'd think that the mod makes would remove or decrease those anyway, knowing that they could break the game with the changes they're making.
Outside of St. Louis, it seems there are only 51 rounds in the game. 1 from a random encounter, 50 from Vault 0. So basically the end of the game.

They fire the DU rounds at YOU if you let then. Key words: Let. Them.

Flip back a few pages. I did a rundown of St Louis and how to take care of those ultra-mutants without them ever firing a round at you. The key is understanding how FOT mechanics work, especially the overwatch mechanic.

There is also another 100 in another container in Vault 0.

Yeah, I just beat the game. The wiki is indeed wrong; you can actually find 150 DU rounds in Vault 0.
I let Barnaky put his brain into the Calculator. The Brotherhood basically became the Enclave. It's a pity that FoT is only semi-canon, because a proper fallout game set in the midwest where have to deal with / join an oppressive brotherhood would be neat.
I looked at the other endings and it seems that in both the bad and good karma sacrifice endings the Mutants aren't as oppressed. Makes sense I suppose; you do fight alongside them.