Interview Fargo, Sawyer, McComb and others weigh in on the future of RPGs at Rock Paper Shotgun

[jdinatale]

Wouldn't it make the most sense to just make more games like Fallout: New Vegas, I.e. ones that appeal to hardcore fans, bit are also accessible by a casual audience if desired?

 

[Bohrain]

They had existing IP, assets and engine for New Vegas though. It does puzzle me why studios don't try to do more first person walking simulators, since Bethesda rakes so much money from them.

 

[MurkyShadow]

When the mention the “metrics” pointing towards catering towards multiplayer... yeah exactly where did you get those metrics? From 14 year olds?

Maybe those are the same metrics that pointed to Fallout POS being a good idea.
At this point it wouldn't surprise me hearing Fargo say, it was game before it's time.

 

[Excommunicator]

Can you point to a crappy game and say "see, this is proof that games like these don't work"?

Can someone who makes a crappy game be asked for a credible opinion on those types of games?

 

[DeepOcean]

Fargo is the Cliff Blazinsky of RPGs, always late ripping off fads created by other people. It is kinda depressing to watch.

 

[Shadenuat]

Take D:OS games for example, everyone keeps bring them up as these great examples of using the environment. But are they really?

Compared to everything else yes.

In Dwarf Fortress, you can dynamically dig out a large space underground to serve as a reservoir

You can do same in Minecraft, but it doesn't make it a great rpg. The simplier the graphics the easier it is to apply things like environment manipulation. And if you're going to allow player drain one lake with fire spell, he'll go around trying to do same with any water tile in the game.

What can you do in D:OS games other than keep combining 2-3 spell effects together in a fight after fight until it becomes just a longer way to cast a spell? Can you solve quests using environmental interaction? Can you use it in novel ways or is it just the same "cast water/oil, follow with electricity/fire" over and over?

It a way some things in D:OS can be solved with environment, like telekinesis and such. Just in the first level you can save people by casting Rain spell. Also you're saying all this as it's a bad thing and you find it often in RPGs.

If I was them

But you aren't. Where's your Ultima 7 sized game with environmental interactions with grafix good enough to sell, tactical combat and story better than PS:T?

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Yeah I think because of the rising costs of development and the fact some of these studios are pretty big and have to answer to higher ups who only care about profits the margins for errors are slim to none so they simply don’t take risks coming up with something innovative

Yeah, but their problem is, innovation is the only way they can succeed. They cannot sell these games to the masses like Bethesda/Bioware can, so with their default audience being niche and sophisticated, I don't think they can keep releasing these types of mediocre, stale games and be financially successful. Although some of you people buying them might prove me wrong.

Take D:OS games for example, everyone keeps bring them up as these great examples of using the environment. But are they really?

Compared to everything else yes.

Compared to Oblivion, Mass Effect is a masterpiece of literary brilliance.

In Dwarf Fortress, you can dynamically dig out a large space underground to serve as a reservoir

You can do same in Minecraft, but it doesn't make it a great rpg. The simplier the graphics the easier it is to apply things like environment manipulation. And if you're going to allow player drain one lake with fire spell, he'll go around trying to do same with any water tile in the game.

DF: Adventurer Mode will actually be the greatest RPG of all time at some point in the next 30 years.

What can you do in D:OS games other than keep combining 2-3 spell effects together in a fight after fight until it becomes just a longer way to cast a spell? Can you solve quests using environmental interaction? Can you use it in novel ways or is it just the same "cast water/oil, follow with electricity/fire" over and over?

It a way some things in D:OS can be solved with environment, like telekinesis and such. Just in the first level you can save people by casting Rain spell. Also you're saying all this as it's a bad thing and you find it often in RPGs.

That's a gimmick. You use a rain spell/scroll to douse a burning ship in the beginning, and then, it never comes up again (or maybe 1-2 times in a 100 hour game). The difference between a gameplay element and a gimmick is that the gameplay element would be a regular part of gameplay. If D:OS games had something where you had regular environmental puzzles solved by spells and other actions, then yeah, but as it is, it's only a gimmick used in combat that gets old fairly quickly.

 

[Shadenuat]

People should stop using word "gimmick" for anything

You wanted something solved by spell, there is thing, you solve it. What's the problem?

People have been asking for this shit for years. "Oh all magic is shit and just flashy effects, if only I could freeze some ground and enemy dudes would fumble". You got it, and now "it gets old", but out of combat, I take it, it wouldn't get old? Please.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

People should stop using word "gimmick" for anything

You wanted something solved by spell, there is thing, you solve it. What's the problem?

People have been asking for this shit for years. "Oh all magic is shit and just flashy effects, if only I could freeze some ground and enemy dudes would fumble". You got it, and now "it gets old", but out of combat, I take it, it wouldn't get old? Please.

Depends on the context. If there were various different spells for different situations with complex interactions, then yeah, but if the game has a very simple system of cast spell A, follow up with spell B, double damage, then it becomes routine and boring.

 

[Strange Fellow]

People should stop using word "gimmick" for anything

You wanted something solved by spell, there is thing, you solve it. What's the problem?

People have been asking for this shit for years. "Oh all magic is shit and just flashy effects, if only I could freeze some ground and enemy dudes would fumble". You got it, and now "it gets old", but out of combat, I take it, it wouldn't get old? Please.

Depends on the context. If there were various different spells for different situations with complex interactions, then yeah, but if the game has a very simple system of cast spell A, follow up with spell B, double damage, then it becomes routine and boring.

I always thought that a Wizardry 1-like pure dungeon crawler, with town-only resting and Vancian spellcasting, could have been really interesting, and forced you to rely more on resource management and the environmental gimmick even in the late game, than D:OS' "nuke everything, all the time". Shame that nobody used the editor, and that I can't code for shit.

 

[himmy]

I feel like everyone is missing the most worrying thing from this interview. It's that all these industry legends saw Larian being successful by going against the current and introducing some new elements to an arguably (from the perspective of the market, at least) stale genre, and their reaction wasn't "hey, maybe we should be trying to innovate and come up with some new stuff too", but "look, this new stuff made money. Quick, grab it!".

And in a few years they will act all surprised how come people aren't as impressed and word-of-mouthy about their game that tries to copy what Larian did.

 

[Shilandra]

I feel like everyone is missing the most worrying thing from this interview. It's that all these industry legends saw Larian being successful by going against the current and introducing some new elements to an arguably (from the perspective of the market, at least) stale genre, and their reaction wasn't "hey, maybe we should be trying to innovate and come up with some new stuff too", but "look, this new stuff made money. Quick, grab it!".

And in a few years they will act all surprised how come people aren't as impressed and word-of-mouthy about their game that tries to copy what Larian did.

I dont know what the legal situation is but I wouldn't mind if obsidian did another game in the tyranny universe for the magic system alone. I loved being able to craft spells like that and gravelight and emotion were awesome and the way they connected the magic and the lore and the archons was fantastic. there was alot of room for improvement and I would much rather see them try to take that system and try to refine it than try to copy anything from Larian.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

I dont know what the legal situation is but I wouldn't mind if obsidian did another game in the tyranny universe for the magic system alone.

WTF is it with people and that dogshit magic system? It looks interesting for 5 seconds, untill you realize it's not. Customization my ass.

 

[Shilandra]

I dont know what the legal situation is but I wouldn't mind if obsidian did another game in the tyranny universe for the magic system alone.

WTF is it with people and that dogshit magic system? It looks interesting for 5 seconds, untill you realize it's not. Customization my ass.

It is very limited in the amount of customization it can do but the base concepts that are there are very interesting and can be easily improved upon. They just need a chance to do it.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

I dont know what the legal situation is but I wouldn't mind if obsidian did another game in the tyranny universe for the magic system alone.

WTF is it with people and that dogshit magic system? It looks interesting for 5 seconds, untill you realize it's not. Customization my ass.

It is very limited in the amount of customization it can do but the base concepts that are there are very interesting and can be easily improved upon. They just need a chance to do it.

They had their chance and decided to retardo the system.

 

[ItsChon]

Just make another Infinity Engine based CRPG, where the only thing that needs to be changed is the setting and story. Keep the core mechanics of those games the same. I don't need any improvements made to the old BG games, or PS:T, short of revamping some of the old graphics and animations as done in the Enhanced Editions. Bring back those gorgeous hand drawn maps of old, and don't worry about the voice acting so much. Sure you wouldn't make as much money, but you also wouldn't spend nearly as much producing these games, and you'd be able to access an entirely new market of gamers.

 

[Roguey]

Just make another Infinity Engine based CRPG, where the only thing that needs to be changed is the setting and story. Keep the core mechanics of those games the same. I don't need any improvements made to the old BG games, or PS:T, short of revamping some of the old graphics and animations as done in the Enhanced Editions. Bring back those gorgeous hand drawn maps of old, and don't worry about the voice acting so much. Sure you wouldn't make as much money, but you also wouldn't spend nearly as much producing these games, and you'd be able to access an entirely new market of gamers.

Beamdog did this already, nobody cared.

 

[ItsChon]

-snip-

Which game, I must be missing something?

 

[Black]

Just make another Infinity Engine based CRPG

No.

Keep the core mechanics of those games the same

God no.

Joined: Yesterday

God why

 

[Roguey]

-snip-

Which game, I must be missing something?

Siege of Dragonspear.

 

[Bibbimbop]

If you want a picture of the future for RPGs, imagine a big black dildo slapping a tranny's face... forever.

 

[ga♥]

-snip-

Which game, I must be missing something?

Siege of Dragonspear.

Just the mechanics (somewhat). Also, it is an expansion... not a new game. And the writing is horrible! Also, maybe if they didn't put the tranny in it would have fared better (actually im pretty sure it would have)

 

[MajorMace]

Sounds like a lot of irrelevant comments.
Beamdog did make another IE game and nobody gave a fuck indeed. It's even more eloquent since it was, precisely, an extension for BG and should have therefore received much more attention.
Nobody cares.

Now if you try to mimic these games, good lord brace yourself.

 

[ItsChon]

You'd have to be missing an extra chromosome to think Siege of Dragonspear is equivalent to a new game. The writing is cringe worthy, it's extremely linear and hardly has any choices in it which actually impact the progression of the story, and a few other things. They also rushed the ending, ruining that as well. It wasn't horrible, but it didn't even come close to Baldur's Gate in anyway. I said make an Infinity Engine game with a new universe, setting, characters, and an EXCELLENT story. SoD was none of those things, so fuck off with these bullshit arguments.

That's the thing though, we don't need another BG game. We've done enough in the BG universe, or at least, in that specific area of it. Make a new setting, a new universe, new characters, etc. That's what I mean by a new game. This is just one type of RPG, but I personally enjoy isometric RPG's more then any other type. If you enjoyed BG, IWD, and PS:T, another Infinity Engine game with excellent writing and a new story/setting would be another gem. If you didn't enjoy those games, then a new IE game wouldn't be targeted towards you.

 

[Black]

The writing is cringe worthy, it's extremely linear and hardly has any choices in it which actually impact the progression of the story

So how is it not a sequel to BG?