Interview Fargo, Sawyer, McComb and others weigh in on the future of RPGs at Rock Paper Shotgun

[Roguey]

That's the thing though, 90% of what makes an "AWESOME GIGA EXCELLENT 10/10" game is the writing.

If this is accurate, then it's an almost-impossible hurdle for any mid-and-above-sized RPG developer today.

 

[ItsChon]

What exactly is fresh about them?

You're telling me a space themed IE game wouldn't be fresh? Something like ME as an IE game would be amazing.

Isometric view?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/just-what-is-isometric.69829/ Bruh?

That's the thing though, 90% of what makes an "AWESOME GIGA EXCELLENT 10/10" game is the writing.

Fight me

I'd win.

That's the thing though, 90% of what makes an "AWESOME GIGA EXCELLENT 10/10" game is the writing.

If this is accurate, then it's an almost-impossible hurdle for any mid-and-above-sized RPG developer today.

Sure, I'm not going to disagree with that. But what I will disagree with is this idea that we need new gameplay features or an entirely new engine to make a good RPG when all we really need is better writers.

 

[Black]

A space themed RPG would be fresh no matter the fucking engine. IE is trash.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Why make an RPG with good writing in an engine with bad gameplay, when you could make it in an engine with good gameplay?

 

[ItsChon]

I personally loved IE gameplay, and I prefer isometric view over any other of view. I'd love to hear some examples of games that you people would consider to have good gameplay.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Need For Speed: Most Wanted

 

[ItsChon]

Playing a racing game when you could literally race with your own car? Alright mate, whatever you say.

 

[Strange Fellow]

 

[Roguey]

A space themed RPG would be fresh no matter the fucking engine.

As Knights of the Old Republic showed us, it's just reskinned fantasy.

 

[ItsChon]

I enjoyed KotOR, sooooooooo...

 

[AW8]

A space themed RPG would be fresh no matter the fucking engine.

As Knights of the Old Republic showed us, it's just reskinned fantasy.

Mass Effect too.

 

[ArchAngel]

ps : Do you even realise how retarded you read. I said make a new IE game, but an AWESOME GIGA EXCELLENT 10/10 ONE, surely people will care then !!1
My, are you sure ?

That's the thing though, 90% of what makes an "AWESOME GIGA EXCELLENT 10/10" game is the writing. Look at how many people gobbled up PoE for gods sake? Do you really think all that was because of the new engine? Clearly there are plenty of people still interested in isometric CRPG's, and IE is the best system for that.

I don't agree, BG1 had very little high quality writing and it was still an awesome 10/10 experience.

 

[Fenix]

Bruh?

Details doesn't matter...

Anyway, I just realized thta this discussion belong to retardoland.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

They make all of this too complicated IMO. If they had just kept improving Infinity Engine or better yet whatever engine the Temple of Elemental Evil 's was they could have churned out game after game of classic Dungeons and Dragons modules-- perhaps with some sort of central hub where you could make a party and choose on a map your next module or adventure based on your level etc..

I think they could have made a lot of money and satisfied a lot of fans who would continue to buy such a product even today. Or they could have just kept making their own adventures, in the spirit of Icewind Dale or something. There was tons of ways those engines could have been improved and added upon while using a already developed RPG rule set and game world people like and are familiar with.

I think such an endeavor could do well even if it began today. But for some reason all these companies want to spend years and years developing a brand new gaming engine and combining it with a concurrently developed homemade RPG system. Then after doing all this work they use the engine a couple times and then repeat the whole process over again, starting from scratch. I don't get it. What makes them want to constantly start over from scratch? I have to believe just improving on the infinity engine or ToEE engine while putting out an icewind dale length game every year or so would have very low costs compared to starting all over from nothing every couple of years. I really believe this would have worked. I think perhaps part of the issue is the developers might find such an approach boring, and believe they are above just churning out D&D modules for 20 years... Instead they want to show the world their awesome home made RPG system they have been making since 5th grade, because D&D lol sucks...

 

[ArchAngel]

Sword Coast Legends tried that and got destroyed by the community.

 

[Gylfi.Fenriz.Conquests]

the emergent gameplay theory doesn't sound half bad, as it leans toward immersive-sims (deus ex) and if story-telling happens with action and not before and after, it's also good. It seems to be happening what i wrote about two years ago.

http://askmeaboutpuzzles.blogspot.com/2011/04/gameplay-story-new-alliance-yet-another.html

all good provided there's no loss in "depth".

 

[Fenix]

holla_cabezas_de_mierda you see, main problem here is a obsession with "new experience" that western civilization obsessed with.
These can be seen like natural from inside of it, but actually it is artificially created trend.
Those same developers are just bored to do the same thisng even if it good.
THey want to do something new again and again - thus "Das Kind mit dem Bade ausschutten" or together with water threw out baby.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Sword Coast Legends tried that and got destroyed by the community.

tried what? sword coast legends has character creation system like Icewind Dale II or ToEE? You can multi-class and dual class? You can be one of 12 different types of clerics? A fallen Paladin? You can create a party of six 1st level characters and play the B2 The keep on the borderlands and follow it up with the entire 'against the giants' modules? I missed that game, I guess I should try it out, sounds good.

Here is a list of all the D&D computer games (or 90% of them maybe)



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dungeons_&_Dragons_video_games

Has a truly fully developed rule set AD&D game ever really sold poorly? The only ones I can think of that truly implemented all the rules (or at least most of the rules) are the Gold box Games, Dark Sun games, Baldurs Gate, icewind Dale series, Temple of Elemental Evil and the Neverwinter Nights series,

From what I can tel looking at the listl, any time a company truly recreated the rules of AD&D without streamlining it and allowed the players the freedom to create their characters the game has sold well and been well received. The issues seem to come when company's half ass it, streamline,m change the rules, simplify, or bastardize the rules..then they decide people don't like D&D or RPG's when the actual issue is they are not truly giving people what they want.

 

[ArchAngel]

Sword Coast Legends tried that and got destroyed by the community.

tried what? sword coast legends has character creation system like Icewind Dale II or ToEE? You can multi-class and dual class? You can be one of 12 different types of clerics? A fallen Paladin? You can create a party of six 1st level characters and play the B2 The keep on the borderlands and follow it up with the entire 'against the giants' modules? I missed that game, I guess I should try it out, sounds good.

Here is a list of all the D&D computer games (or 90% of them maybe)



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dungeons_&_Dragons_video_games

Has a truly fully developed rule set AD&D game ever really sold poorly? The only ones I can think of that truly implemented all the rules (or at least most of the rules) are the Gold box Games, Dark Sun games, Baldurs Gate, icewind Dale series, Temple of Elemental Evil and the Neverwinter Nights series,

From what I can tel looking at the listl, any time a company truly recreated the rules of AD&D without streamlining it and allowed the players the freedom to create their characters the game has sold well and been well received. The issues seem to come when company's half ass it, streamline,m change the rules, simplify, or bastardize the rules..then they decide people don't like D&D or RPG's when the actual issue is they are not actually giving people what they want.

Tried to do the module spam system with base game being more of a skeleton for it. They didn't do a great job but maybe it is not easy today to do that with everyone expecting to earn big bucks.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

holla_cabezas_de_mierda you see, main problem here is a obsession with "new experience" that western civilization obsessed with.
These can be seen like natural from inside of it, but actually it is artificially created trend.
Those same developers are just bored to do the same thisng even if it good.
THey want to do something new again and again - thus "Das Kind mit dem Bade ausschutten" or together with water threw out baby.

yes that is basically my guess too as to why some of these companies seem to constantly overthink and over complicate their business

 

[Andhaira]

You just need good partybsaed char gen, turnbased combat, good magic system, feats/talents, and a small but charming story.

That's all an rpg really needs.

Realms of Arkania series is the classic example. Icewind Dale is another (the EE is also quite worth playing)

 

[ItsChon]

-snip-

Literally what I was trying to get across the whole time. Thank you for articulating it.

 

[Ebonsword]

Has a truly fully developed rule set AD&D game ever really sold poorly? The only ones I can think of that truly implemented all the rules (or at least most of the rules) are the Gold box Games, Dark Sun games, Baldurs Gate, icewind Dale series, Temple of Elemental Evil and the Neverwinter Nights series,

You forgot Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor and Dungeons & Dragons: Tactics.

 

[Davaris]

They make all of this too complicated IMO. If they had just kept improving Infinity Engine or better yet whatever engine the Temple of Elemental Evil 's was they could have churned out game after game of classic Dungeons and Dragons modules-- perhaps with some sort of central hub where you could make a party and choose on a map your next module or adventure based on your level etc..

I think they could have made a lot of money and satisfied a lot of fans who would continue to buy such a product even today. Or they could have just kept making their own adventures, in the spirit of Icewind Dale or something. There was tons of ways those engines could have been improved and added upon while using a already developed RPG rule set and game world people like and are familiar with.

You can download an open source Infinity Engine and make those games right now. What will stop you is the cost of making maps for that engine. It's expensive because if you want to make or change a map, the designers can't do it quickly. The artists must do it for the designers which is expensive. It also means the designers can't make changes quickly, to see how it plays. So if you want to make 2D games with lower cost and less people, you have to use tile based engines.

I think such an endeavor could do well even if it began today. But for some reason all these companies want to spend years and years developing a brand new gaming engine and combining it with a concurrently developed homemade RPG system. Then after doing all this work they use the engine a couple times and then repeat the whole process over again, starting from scratch. I don't get it. What makes them want to constantly start over from scratch? I have to believe just improving on the infinity engine or ToEE engine while putting out an icewind dale length game every year or so would have very low costs compared to starting all over from nothing every couple of years. I really believe this would have worked. I think perhaps part of the issue is the developers might find such an approach boring, and believe they are above just churning out D&D modules for 20 years... Instead they want to show the world their awesome home made RPG system they have been making since 5th grade, because D&D lol sucks...

Not to mention they throw all the art assets away and make new ones each time. What a stupid waste.

I think one reason they make new engines and art, is because like I said on the first page, the industry and player base are chock full of graphics whores. Graphics whoring is how they one up each other. The other reason is they want to hang on to their artists and cracker jack programmers. So instead of you paying them to make the best game evar, they are thinking about building their companies and creating make busy work for their employees. Fargo said he wanted to rebuild another Interplay. I also read interviews here where he said he was returning to Kickstarter, so he could keep people who would otherwise have nothing to do employed.

 

[Black]

I think people wanted to forget that Pool of Radiance since it wiped their C:s.