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Squeenix Final Fantasy XII remaster

CryptRat

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
3,548
you can just pause the game any time you wan[...]switch to any character in the menu[...]It plays exactly like the old ATB games this way.
No, it plays differently. In old ATB games I bascially never switch to another character in the old ATB games, why would I, the game automatically does, nor I pause the game at random moments to see what's going on or when a character finished his last action so that I can make him do something without losing time, I know when I have to enter an input (for the same reason).
 

tet666

Augur
Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
396
No, it plays differently. In old ATB games I bascially never switch to another character in the old ATB games, why would I, the game automatically does, nor I pause the game at random moments to see what's going on or when a character finished his last action so that I can make him do something without losing time, I know when I have to enter an input (for the same reason).

Well the menu doesn't plop up but that's it you can see on the progress bar if a character has finished his action and you can even queue some so i don't really get your point, it's a bit different yeah but not by much as i said i play the game mostly without any gambits, the game gives you the flexibility to play it like that and it's perfectly fine in my opinion.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
I'm 5 hours in.

I'm enjoying the story so far. Less tropey than most other Final Fantasy games I've played. Dialogue is well written and voice acted for the most part.

I don't find Vaan irritating at all. All the reviews I read seemed to make him out to be the worst Final Fantasy character ever... but he's annoying me far less than Tidus did.

I like the combat system and the gambits. From what I've seen so far, it could end up being my favourite version of RTWP in an RPG. I still prefer Final Fantasy X's turn based system, but I think the licence grid in this game is far better than Final Fantasy X's sphere grids.

I'm scratching my head wondering why this kind of RTWP hasn't been copied by other RPGs since. Pillars of Eternity would have been a lot better if you could have set up party tactics in this way.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,228
FFXII is merely OK. A bit too grindy. Lost a lot of the charm of older titles in many ways. Boring ivalice setting. Soundtrack decline (no or minimal involvement by the legendary Nobou) though it's still interesting. It's also probably the most gameplay-focused FF game, yet the gameplay while not bad isn't anything truly special just like the previous games, but at least they were elevated by absolutely gorgeous art, beautiful totally captivating music and campy fun stories. the same can't be said for this one

Edit: the Gambit system is very cool tho.

No idea what this remaster does in particular but if every previous Square Enix re-release miilkage is anything to go by, then they butchered it in EVERYTHING they did.
 
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jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,420
nah the zodiac age version is a waste of time. Make a already easy game that plays itself considerably easier.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
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How so? What Karhu said makes the game harder at face value. What did those incompetent buffoons (may as well apply to all modern devs) go and do this time to fuck it all up?
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
7,528
Fags this is just a HD version of the Japanese FFXII (previously unreleased here) with minor tweaks. They didn't fuck up anything that wasn't done years ago.
 

jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,420
you have massively more hp at the start of the game then you do with the original version. Pretty sure late game your also stronger as they give you shit ton of stat points to compensate you cant equip everything you come across which is dumb.
 

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
How so? What Karhu said makes the game harder at face value. What did those incompetent buffoons (may as well apply to all modern devs) go and do this time to fuck it all up?
You're stronger early, each character is more specialized late game.

Some class combinations are incredibly powerful, however. Monk + Black Mage for casting, and Knight + Bushi for melee, White Mage + Machinist for Support. Hunter + Red Mage is considered top tier for tanking + support. Time Mage makes an awesome secondary for any non-heavy armor class, and also comes with the bonus of Hastega and Ranged Weapons in crossbows. Breaker's ultimate weapon is available 1/3 through all content, and trivializes a ton of shit. Hunter + Bushi / Black Mage is the ultimate Yazmat DPS Machine (Yagyu Darkblade + Black Robes)

Uhlan (Lancer) kinda gets the short end of the stick, imo. Holy Lance and Zodiac Spear are great, but the latter is a huge pain in the ass to get, since the original way of getting it by avoiding chests in the first 2 hours has been removed, while the former is pretty much outclassed by the Excalibur in the hands of a Knight / Bushi with all 3 Speed Up Licenses. Spear has long range and has a little less charge time, but isn't really worth it when compared to like 25 attack less than Excalibur, and like 35 less than Tournesol.

Main thing is, lots of class combos have their uses and specialty, they can't do everything under the sun. Personally I like to make sure all 12 classes are evenly distributed between my 6 characters. No overlap adds a nice strategic layer in decision making.
 
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Vaarna_Aarne

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(no or minimal involvement by the legendary Nobou)
Since I'm replaying the Final Fantasies I played when I was but a wee boy (meaning 7,8 and X, albeit I did play 9 too but it just never really caught my interest), it really becomes very clear that Nobuo Uematsu is arguably the best video game composer ever. It's not even just the level of quality his soundtracks are at when listened to just by themselves, the crazy part is the way his battle themes are so expertly paced that they just about always hit a high note during the longer major limit break/summon animations.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,228
it really becomes very clear that Nobuo Uematsu is arguably the best video game composer ever.

There's no doubt in my mind.

Also, returning as an older individual one should play with romhacks! FF7: Hardtype in particular. It just makes the game complete. Also reconsider playing FF9. It's a konsole klassic. It could do with a tad better core gameplay but it's one of the better FF games and really quite good. And don't let the disney-esque setting fool you, later the game tackles some pretty dark themes and things become the opposite of disney-esque in every sense.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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I have considered getting 6 and 9 too, and giving XII a spin too since that's the point where I just zoned out on the series (and in previous case because I did not have a SNES and wasn't even aware of the series until 7 came out).
 

Ash

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Oct 16, 2015
Messages
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You've not played 6 either? Oh man. 5, 6, 7 , 8 (maybe), and 9 are where it's at. 10, 12 and even X-2 are OK. Tactics is also pretty good. Ignore all the rest especially those that say 4 is good. the gameplay is typical JRPG there: no customisation or systems to stategise with, boring exploration, just a linear average story that you constantly grind through pointless battles throughout, and they don't even throw in shit like minigames as they did in the later games to add a bit of a interactive interlude from the battles (and often rewarded items for battle anyways). Couple of good musical tracks but also less notable than later games. A highly overrated game.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,228
Nah, the games listed above deserve the love they get. As long as you take them for what they are/strive to be (not really RPGs) and don't constantly compare to DnD cRPGs as they strive for different things. They're the disney classics of the gaming world: great art, great sound, fun to experience (gameplay, especially with romhacks to address some problems), childish fun moving stories, despite sometimes being all over the place. A sum of their parts though, as these particular things don't truly stand to great scrutiny or work well alone. Except the music.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

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don't listen or pay attention to anyone who says JRPGs don't count as RPGs.

SNES ff6j is the obvious best FF in entire series, etc, etc; just wanted to make sure everyone knows that I say whoever advises enjoying a JRPG as 'not an RPG' is approaching this conversation with wrong-headed group-think and thus whatever advice or recommendation this person makes is flawed.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,228
lel. for a start the games have little to no role-playing potential...get the fuck out. We can't even agree on the definition of an RPG, so don't say my advice is flawed.

A cRPG is what games like Ultima, Wizardry and other early cRPGs established. Concepts ripped from tabletop, and the rules and principles emulated closely. Final Fantasy doesn't do that. there's some inspiration sure but it's trying to do its own thing to a major extent. But OK, let me rephrase for the butthurt: don't go in expecting an RPG as you may know and expect it (e.g heavily tabletop-inspired with lots of player agency and role-playing potential).
 

Hobo Elf

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There certainly is no LARPing in FF12 which is what you seem to define RPGing as, but there is a sense of adventure and dungeon crawling in FF12, which is also one facet of tabletop gaming.
 

Cross

Arcane
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Messages
2,983
In my opinion these are unfair arguments, using gambits and trying to optimize how to use them is obviously how the game is meant to be played. So much that the game does not give you any alternative way to control a party in this game, which really pisses me off, if there was an option to play the game like classic FFs then we would have a different debate. You certainly don't have to control zero character, the game gives you the possibility to control one and that's what I do, but more than one, not really.

Wait what are you even talking about? That's blatantly false there is party control, you can just pause the game any time you want (if the game is in wait mode) and switch to any character in the menu and give him orders or queue them? How are you forced to play only 1 character? It plays exactly like the old ATB games this way. Don't tell me you didn't even know that...

I never even touched the gambits in my last play trough on the PS2 it's perfectly doable and fun if that's your thing like in this video (not mine):

perfectly doable and fun
So your idea of fun is gameplay where more than 80% of the time in combat is spent paused and scrolling through menus and submenus to achieve things that would take a single mouse click to do in any other RTwP RPG, despite the game already being extremely simplified compared to something like the Infinity Engine. Why on earth would anyone want to play the game this way?
 
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Arthandas

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
1,368
I'm starting my first playthrough, any tips on how to make the game harder apart from using only 1 job per character? No spoilers please.

EDIT: So apparently the pc version has new game- unlocked from the start. Can you still learn new abilities on the grid while being locked to lv1? Are there any other consequences of not leveling up other than lower stats?

EDIT2: I just found cheat engine script with enemy damage/healing multiplier, awesome.
 
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Vaarna_Aarne

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I think what really turned me off the franchise at that time (besides standard youthful period of edgelordism) I mentioned was that it was around then that it was taken hostage by the fanboy nerds who couldn't accept that you don't need to have your goddamn fanservice sequels and spin-offs. Final Fantasy 7 and Final Fantasy X were self-contained stories that were made to be that way, any fraudulent fan-demand addition will just about inevitably be fundamentally undermined and subject to Koch's Snowflake.
 

Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
4,930
I'm starting my first playthrough, any tips on how to make the game harder apart from using only 1 job per character? No spoilers please.

EDIT: So apparently the pc version has new game- unlocked from the start. Can you still learn new abilities on the grid while being locked to lv1? Are there any other consequences of not leveling up other than lower stats?

EDIT2: I just found cheat engine script with enemy damage/healing multiplier, awesome.

Would be very interested to see what you've landed on with your multipliers. I quite enjoy the game, but I want to be able to do hunts and shit without becoming massively op.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
11,756
I think what really turned me off the franchise at that time (besides standard youthful period of edgelordism) I mentioned was that it was around then that it was taken hostage by the fanboy nerds who couldn't accept that you don't need to have your goddamn fanservice sequels and spin-offs. Final Fantasy 7 and Final Fantasy X were self-contained stories that were made to be that way, any fraudulent fan-demand addition will just about inevitably be fundamentally undermined and subject to Koch's Snowflake.
After FF X, Squaresoft itself made the decision to develop endless spin-offs of existing Final Fantasies, as well as abusing the name Final Fantasy for products that were neither spin-offs nor mainline entries from MMORPGs ("FF"s XI and XIV) to CG movies. Not sure why you think the fans are to blame, except to the extent that if people didn't buy such non-FF FFs, then Squaresoft would have stopped making them.
 

Arthandas

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
1,368
Would be very interested to see what you've landed on with your multipliers. I quite enjoy the game, but I want to be able to do hunts and shit without becoming massively op.
I started with new game-, only 1 job per character, enemy damage and healing x2 and hero damage and healing x0.5. I'll report later, after completing a few zones to see if it's feasible or retarded.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
I think what really turned me off the franchise at that time (besides standard youthful period of edgelordism) I mentioned was that it was around then that it was taken hostage by the fanboy nerds who couldn't accept that you don't need to have your goddamn fanservice sequels and spin-offs. Final Fantasy 7 and Final Fantasy X were self-contained stories that were made to be that way, any fraudulent fan-demand addition will just about inevitably be fundamentally undermined and subject to Koch's Snowflake.
After FF X, Squaresoft itself made the decision to develop endless spin-offs of existing Final Fantasies, as well as abusing the name Final Fantasy for products that were neither spin-offs nor mainline entries from MMORPGs ("FF"s XI and XIV) to CG movies. Not sure why you think the fans are to blame, except to the extent that if people didn't buy such non-FF FFs, then Squaresoft would have stopped making them.
The whole fact there's demand for the stuff is why I first and foremost blame the fanbase. I can remember demands for remaking or sequeling FF7 from twenty years back (most of all because my younger dumbass self would have agreed with remake demands), and it was the fan demands that caused the dam to break and bring us X-2 (albeit personally I'd say the king turd is Advent Children in this regard; I also have great disdain for Advent Children because it cements abandoning distinctive art style for making everything follow the more realistic look of 8 and X.

Squeenix is just giving the horde what they want.
 

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