X-COM Firaxis - XCOM: Enemy Unknown + Enemy Within Expansion

[Psquit]

It wasn't entirely shit, but I'm just not enjoying the 2 phase movement system. Since combat is the majority of the game, I decided not to invest a lot of time to finish it.
Nice try, but no dice. AP system is still the best.

Also the plot the characters... kinda felt like this:

Mein sturmfuhrer you must bring uz more aliens ya?.

 

[RK47]

A lot of people who liked it said I over-reacted to the HQ actors but I honestly think they add very little to the story, and the narrated tech discovery bored me to tears.
If they really want to invest on the 'Hollywood' factor, focus on the important bits - the Soldiers. The ones getting killed left and right. Award ceremonies/funeral would actually work.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

It wasn't entirely shit, but I'm just not enjoying the 2 phase movement system. Since combat is the majority of the game, I decided not to invest a lot of time to finish it.
Nice try, but no dice. AP system is still the best.

Frankly I was a huge advocate for time units and I expected to *hate* the "two phases combat" but in the end I enjoyed it quite a bit, despise of its occasional shortcomings. It's not that bad at all, even if there are surely parts that need to be perfected (i.e. the line of sight check seems to work in mysterious ways, for a start, and i hate the "free movements for enemies when they are spotted" because it actively discourages map exploration).

Where the game just fell flat on its face it's in the strategic/managerial part, in my opinion.
Way too obtuse, ironically more abstract and less intuitive than the original (when it was supposed to be a "simplification" of that system) and simply too linear and strict.
Playing the original UFO every campaign felt like a new story, while I played this new XCOM three times and every single one of them felt like a repetition of the very same playthrough.

There are only so many times I can save Anna Ming, "General Braveheart Yankee" or the politician hidden behind the van before feeling that huge sense of deja vu.

 

[EmoBunny]

It wasn't entirely shit, but I'm just not enjoying the 2 phase movement system. Since combat is the majority of the game, I decided not to invest a lot of time to finish it.
Nice try, but no dice. AP system is still the best.

Also the plot the characters... kinda felt like this:

Mein sturmfuhrer you must bring uz more aliens ya?.

Battalion Wars was such a great fucking game

 

[KoolNoodles]

Until an X-Com game captures the horror and triumph of running into and then overcoming a cryssalid/lobsterman encounter for the first time, it will not be true X-Com. The first time I ran into a crysallid I lost four guys by the time the "zombies" were all dead, and having harpoons basically bounce off a lobsterman who is right next to a couple of aquanauts about to be sliced and diced was also pretty terrifying/awesome.

That's when you start trying to figure shit out in-mission. Sending squaddies in with a primed explosive pack and some grenades after laying down smoke. Firing HE and Incendiary rounds into every fucking corner, not caring about civilians because guess what? You just lost a third of your squad. Some missions simply were about preservation. That's why the originals were genius.

 

[Space Satan]

IMO 2-step combat is not a simplification and is a great mechanic in EU. I remember well 1000000 AP ubersoldiers from vanilla and numerous exploits with AP-based mechanics. X-Com: EU failed with base assaults, dumb 3-alien teams, idiotic panic mechanics, lack of base building and other features, but combat they did right.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

Just played it. The entire "enemies react when you see them then get free turn and otherwise just stand around with a stick up their ass" pretty much ruined it. That single decision is so ridiculously retarded, as it becomes the one defining aspect you have to model your tactics around. Just try not to accidentally explore to see/activate the enemies.

 

[felipepepe]

Yeah, that mechanic of "awakening" the enemies and the lack of any randomness are pretty much the worst part of the game. The difficulty curse is retarded and the research (and the game itself) is pretty linear, but they would be tolerable had the rest worked...

 

[Lorica]

Just played it. The entire "enemies react when you see them then get free turn and otherwise just stand around with a stick up their ass" pretty much ruined it. That single decision is so ridiculously retarded, as it becomes the one defining aspect you have to model your tactics around. Just try not to accidentally explore to see/activate the enemies.

It won't fix everything, but this mod will let you correct that.

 

[felipepepe]

It fixes them having a free turn after being discovered, but does not fix them just standing around doing nothing until them...

 

[Lorica]

If he means before they've been revealed, that's not exactly accurate. They seem to migrate around the map, making noise and apparently reacting to noise. What is broken about that is the fact that they seem to teleport around instead of moving normally and that their hearing seems to vary wildly between bat-like and stone-deaf.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

The more I play the more pissed I get. This game could have been great ;_;

 

[Disgruntled]

Im a tad late on this one. Only just finished the game after getting it on heavy discount due to some reviews and codex opinion.
Have to say I loved it. Over 70 hours played till I managed to beat the campaign at Ironman/Classic. (on my 20th attempt, with 1 going till midgame)

I admit a lot of my enjoyment stemmed from the fact I missed out on pretty much every turn-based tactical shooter including the original xcom. The closest before this was SWAT 2 ages ago as well as some obscure WH40k game that kept crashing on me. From this position, Xcom: EU was amazingly addictive despite its faults. (the combat and mob quirks were annoying at first but the tactics necessary to win were still fun to me)

There is an understanding of the dislike its garnered. I can imagine a true successor would have been a mainstay, a sandbox people played continuously instead of discarding after 1-2 runthroughs, with bigger maps, no obscure los representation and a greater variety of tactics for both yourself and the aliens. Still on its own and without those comparisons, Id be lying to myself to call it anything less than good.

Ive been there when my expectations were blown, specifically with Morrowind>Oblivion. Except this time I was the total noob who never experienced the original* and got to enjoy all the positives of the new. Unfortunately for me, the gap between EU and first is not a mere 4 years and I dont think I could really go back to the old one.

Looking forward to the enemy within and/or a sequel. Perhaps they will let the team do a full on version that we can all enjoy.



*Arena, Daggerfall came before it but I tend to separate them away from the subsequent games

 

[Psquit]

Im a tad late on this one. Only just finished the game after getting it on heavy discount due to some reviews and codex opinion.
Have to say I loved it. Over 70 hours played till I managed to beat the campaign at Ironman/Classic. (on my 20th attempt, with 1 going till midgame)

I admit a lot of my enjoyment stemmed from the fact I missed out on pretty much every turn-based tactical shooter including the original xcom. The closest before this was SWAT 2 ages ago as well as some obscure WH40k game that kept crashing on me. From this position, Xcom: EU was amazingly addictive despite its faults. (the combat and mob quirks were annoying at first but the tactics necessary to win were still fun to me)

There is an understanding of the dislike its garnered. I can imagine a true successor would have been a mainstay, a sandbox people played continuously instead of discarding after 1-2 runthroughs, with bigger maps, no obscure los representation and a greater variety of tactics for both yourself and the aliens. Still on its own and without those comparisons, Id be lying to myself to call it anything less than good.

Ive been there when my expectations were blown, specifically with Morrowind>Oblivion. Except this time I was the total noob who never experienced the original and got to enjoy all the positives of the new. Unfortunately for me, the gap between EU and first is not a mere 4 years and I dont think I could really go back to the old one.

Looking forward to the enemy within and/or a sequel. Perhaps they will let the team do a full on version that we can all enjoy.

Lets hope they improve what the game was lacking also i hope they add base defend.

 

[Quilty]

Im a tad late on this one. Only just finished the game after getting it on heavy discount due to some reviews and codex opinion.
Have to say I loved it. Over 70 hours played till I managed to beat the campaign at Ironman/Classic. (on my 20th attempt, with 1 going till midgame)

I admit a lot of my enjoyment stemmed from the fact I missed out on pretty much every turn-based tactical shooter including the original xcom. The closest before this was SWAT 2 ages ago as well as some obscure WH40k game that kept crashing on me. From this position, Xcom: EU was amazingly addictive despite its faults. (the combat and mob quirks were annoying at first but the tactics necessary to win were still fun to me)

There is an understanding of the dislike its garnered. I can imagine a true successor would have been a mainstay, a sandbox people played continuously instead of discarding after 1-2 runthroughs, with bigger maps, no obscure los representation and a greater variety of tactics for both yourself and the aliens. Still on its own and without those comparisons, Id be lying to myself to call it anything less than good.

Ive been there when my expectations were blown, specifically with Morrowind>Oblivion. Except this time I was the total noob who never experienced the original* and got to enjoy all the positives of the new. Unfortunately for me, the gap between EU and first is not a mere 4 years and I dont think I could really go back to the old one.

Looking forward to the enemy within and/or a sequel. Perhaps they will let the team do a full on version that we can all enjoy.



*Arena, Daggerfall came before it but I tend to separate them away from the subsequent games

I've been trying to complete the game on Classic/Ironman, but haven't been able to do so yet. Most of my grief comes from the maps, I think, and the Thin Man special missions often fuck me over when I really don't need it. Do you have any tips, maybe ones for dealing with those annoying maps like the one on the highway with only exploding cars for cover (oh god that map)? Also, the percentages just fuck me over waaaay too often. I frequently miss 90% chances. What the hell, game.

 

[Disgruntled]

I've been trying to complete the game on Classic/Ironman, but haven't been able to do so yet. Most of my grief comes from the maps, I think, and the Thin Man special missions often fuck me over when I really don't need it. Do you have any tips, maybe ones for dealing with those annoying maps like the one on the highway with only exploding cars for cover (oh god that map)? Also, the percentages just fuck me over waaaay too often. I frequently miss 90% chances. What the hell, game.

Yea the early game is probably the most difficult because you dont have full control of the situation. I got through the thin man missions with constant overwatch with a guy triggering the mob. You retreat out of sight and have them advance and shot down. If they dont die you get an assault run & gun to make em miss their overwatch shot and usually get close enough to blast from close range. Position the heavy so he can fire easily and take out 2+ of them in cover. Grenades are essential (that dumb scientist is not helpful, i avoided using em from the start becasue of her warnings), 100% chance to do 3 damage so you can easily take out the thin man that only get injured from your overwatch fire.

Once you get to the dude. Dont escort straight away, make sure every original thin men are dead and have your guys placed perfectly around the map with overwatch once you start moving him. When the extra thin man drop from the sky, you'll have em either killed straight away or in open areas where a soldier is close enough to shoot/grenade em away. As you said the cars blow up so never move the hostage next to one.

Theres definitely luck involved at the start since you'll only have 4 guys with mediocre aim. Later on its more straightforward with reliable shots. With the hit percentage I always prepared myself for the chance of failure and avoided critical engagements where I could miss.
That cant be controlled in the first 1-2 months so I had a lot of failed campaigns till it fell into place.

Beyond that, generally focus on engineers, satellites, squad size and carapace armor asap.

 

[felipepepe]

Difficulty curve of this game is retarded, if you're playing on Classic, the first missions are 10x harder than even the final one....

 

[spectre]

You could argue that it's the same for the originals. Especially if you abuse training and MC.

 

[IDtenT]

I think the problem is that with no base invasions you can just sit back and wait.

 

[Hellraiser]

Difficulty curve of this game is retarded, if you're playing on Classic, the first missions are 10x harder than even the final one....

It's because of retarded proximity spawns, retarded move once shoot once turn system, lower and arbitrarily limited by "research" squad size and an emphasis on experience as opposed to equipment as a primary source of soldier power.

I mean sure, having classes and specialization wasn't a bad idea, but the execution sucks and often feels too arbitrary. I mean "dense smoke" on supports, how the fuck does that even work? My soldier kills xenos and suddenly develops the ability to make more and denser smoke with the same smoke grenades? Or battle scanner on snipers. Why the fuck can't I make and give my soldiers scanners as I please but need to wait for some arbitrary experience threshhold on a specific soldier class?

In good old X-COM your ability to fight aliens was limited primarily by resources. You did bad you lost out on funding, alien resources, troops and possibly equipment. You could afford to see the soldiers die like flies as long as the mission was at least a Pyhrric victory. They were expendable, sure experienced ones were a bit better but most of the soldiers power came from equipment. Which brings me to my second point.

The tech progression sucks, that is it is essentially a +stat one rather than one opening up new gameplay possibilities with few exceptions. The shifted half of the gadgets into XP unlocked abilities due to the dumb decision to dumb down inventory management. Then you have HP bloat with brick walls of HP bars over the heads of heavy muttons and other late game xeno fodder. Rather than have armor mechanics and counter them with more reliable weaponry while still making a potential penetrating shot lethal they turn to HP bloat and MOAR DMG.

At the same time alien weapon damage doesn't change much but player HP increases with armor (armor grants HP and medkits restore HP! The wonders of technology!). It is supposed to be offset by the fact that enemies now have more HP. But what you end up with are drawn out firefights between two blobs of HP that make Blobert's avatar look like he has anorexia (if he didn't change it from that lovely kwan blob of living fat he had).

Then you realize that enemies spawn only when triggered by the player so as long as you stay put there is no danger in such a firefight if you have enough HP. You shoot them, they shoot you, lots of margin for error and lucky crits don't mean much. Zero tension. In the one true X-COM *every* shot could end with a casualty, from start to finish in Cydonia. You could still lose your flying power armored bros to fucking sectoids in those Martian pyramids, the same gray fuckers you faced in the very beginning of the game. They didn't need a screen of HP point markers to be lethal. Tech ensured that the enemy wouldn't get as many chances to actually shoot, just as tactics did. The margin for error was thus far lower than by XCOM's endgame, while still noticeably higher than when you face the alien menace armed with assault rifles, firecrackers and X-COM t-shirts in the beginning of the original game. Balancing difficulty with just HP and DMG is plain retarded.

Every damn flaw of this game is a consequences of the same shitty dumbing-down decisions, the difficulty is no exception.

 

[felipepepe]

Great write-up of the flaws of the game.

 

[spectre]

Oi, slowpoke, I think we already gave that dead horse a good whackin' last year. I think I said it before, but I agree wholehartedly that the equipment management is really shit in SEXCUM, but that one is most likely due to the fact that they wanted to balance it for multiplayer, but the culprit no. 1 was that one retarded decision they made as ragerds the game scale - 6 units max.

 

[Disgruntled]

Much as I agree that the dumbing down was an unfortunate direction for the reboot, I still think on the balance of things this game is a huge positive for turn-based tactical games.
Yeah, you have a few people like me who would easily delve into a proper hardcore edition. Taking the time to learn the game and manage a grand scale campgain, spending hours on 12-20 man teams and careful stat optimisation. Shit if it werent for the faults this would go into my top 5 of all time.

But what we got instead was a solid, tight entry point to the series. Something everyone could enjoy and realise how fun this sort of game can be. Surely its going to be incline from this point forward, now that the unaware like me have been shown the light and are hungry for more.
Id like to think Firaxis will take the steps to add content instead of further streamlining, as they have with Civ 5 expansion. (although it is annoying how some of it feels like cut-out dlc..but hey its better than nothing)

 

[Gozma]

The collapsing difficulty curve is largely caused by the fact that alien spawns never get bigger. It's always three. In the first couple of months it is very often necessary to fight a group of aliens over multiple turns; you don't have the firepower to kill all three in a turn. That means more interest from the noise mechanic as other groups join a fight in progress, more use of the good alien AI and the cover system, etc. In later months you can gun down an entire 3-pissant spawn reliably and all the good systems go out the window and it's just you and the fog-of-war crawl.

I seriously don't understand why they never just tried to make a patch that made spawn sizes grow sufficiently to make it so the median encounter is always multiturn.

 

[eklektyk]

no meatgrinder=no play

fuck papomolists and theirs "good game" its shit consolitis and i would play apocalipse again than this piece of garbage