Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

X-COM Firaxis - XCOM: Enemy Unknown + Enemy Within Expansion

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,380
Well, one good thing about the new SEXCUM is that game journos have a stable and (more importantly) positive point of reference when talking about turn based games.
Previously they would all go: yeah, it's turn based, like back in the day of IBM 186Hz when peeps didn't have the computing power to do real time, lolz amirite?
Now they can say: yeah, it's a system just like in that AWSUM(tm) ufo game from last year.

Now, while it's a small step for humanity at large, at least there's potential for the newfags to at least attempt turn based strategy, because it's still hip, and totally not the shit their grandparents used to play.
If we don't teach our young about the inherent superiority of turn based, the terrorists will have won.

Still, shit design is shit design, and SEXCUM is it, though in view of the above some good may come out of that game eventually.
 

Quilty

Magister
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
2,406
At least we can be thankful it's Firaxis that did the job, and not a company like, say, Creative Assembly. Because, after all, I don't see many faults with the AI in this game. Imagine CA's aliens standing around like idiots, getting gunned down, or just spending their action points on movement turn after turn, getting closer and closer to you as you sigh and massacre them, questioning your own intellect for putting up with that shit...
 

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,216
Location
Space Hell
Original X-Com could bash players on first mission quite easy. Especially if you don't know some cheese strategies, like sending forth sacrifical lambs.
 

IDtenT

Menace to sobriety!
Patron
Joined
Jan 21, 2012
Messages
14,362
Location
South Africa; My pronouns are: Banal/Shit/Boring
Divinity: Original Sin
I mean sure, having classes and specialization wasn't a bad idea, but the execution sucks and often feels too arbitrary. I mean "dense smoke" on supports, how the fuck does that even work? My soldier kills xenos and suddenly develops the ability to make more and denser smoke with the same smoke grenades? Or battle scanner on snipers. Why the fuck can't I make and give my soldiers scanners as I please but need to wait for some arbitrary experience threshhold on a specific soldier class?
Realism isn't exactly the series' strongest point.
 

Hellraiser

Arcane
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
11,295
Location
Danzig, Potato-Hitman Commonwealth
Realism isn't exactly the series' strongest point.

The issue isn't realism, at least not entirely, but the fact they arbitrarily split the gadgets into researchable ones which cost money and have to be equipped taking up a slot, while the rest is gained just by leveling up a soldier, takes no research, no slot and no resources. X-COM wasn't realistic but it was consistent with its level of abstraction. XCOM however makes exceptions where for some gadgets the level of abstraction is greater, bypassing already implemented game mechanics, because the devs made a decision to dumb down inventory management thus digging themselves into hole.

Abstraction itself isn't bad, you use it if you can't implement certain simulation mechanics because it would be pointless or too resource intensive (either for the user's hardware or for the development budget). What is bad is having two systems handle the same gameplay concept (the acquisition of new gadget-derived abilities/tools) with two different levels of abstraction. It is shoddy game design.

This also applies to the "dense smoke" I mentioned, having something that should be based on technology and research rather than soldier skill, be based on the latter in a game where usually it is the former is just jarring.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
6,933
You didn't joke about HP inflation, soon a the mutons becomes a cakewalk you get some red mutons that are "muton elite" huehueheu. Same shit but with more hp.

Also the end boss was taken down in two sniper hits.
 

Wirdschowerdn

Ph.D. in World Saving
Patron
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
34,455
Location
Clogging the Multiverse with a Crowbar
bildvonxcom_898594.jpg


XCOM: Enforcer 2 confirmed.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Very unlikely. I don't think that can be done in the engine (not that I wouldn't like to be proven wrong).
At best we will get new maps, but it would need to be A LOT of new maps.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
I don't understand this part here:

The expansion also brings eight new maps to Enemy Unknown--bringing the game's total to 13-- as well as new weapons, equipment, and "lots" of new enemy types like the Mechtoid.

A new feature called Offline Squad Editing will also be introduced in XCOM: Enemy Within. This much requested feature, according to Gupta, will allow players to select multiple configurations of squads offline, while they are under no time pressure.

Aren't there much more than 5 maps in nuXCOM? I think the designers talked about something like 50 (admittedly I have a hard time remembering how many I actually played, but counting the different UFOs and the maps I do remember, I'm already at 15+ without the special council and story missions)? Do they refer to the indeed limited selection of maps for council and story missions instead? Or are they talking about different tilesets?

And what the heck is "offline" squad editing supposed to mean? I never felt as if I was under time pressure when editing my squads. It's not as if you get attacked by UFOs every 5 second while in the base.

Either the author of the article got some thing pretty wrong here or I was playing a different game.

And yes, 30 bucks definitely is too expensive. I could find the game itself for that price on release.
 

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,216
Location
Space Hell
Time for more real XCOM! Firaxis, developer of XCOM: Enemy Unknown, has announced XCOM: Enemy Within, which will be a $30 expansion for PC gamers and a $40 stand-alone game for Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 players, all on November 12, 2013. Like a Civilization expansion, the basic structure of saving the Earth will remain unchanged: we'll still capture an enemy, attack the alien base, and take the fight to them, but we're getting more options for how to get there.



First and foremost, Firaxis is addressing a couple of XCOM fans' most vocal complaints: you'll now be able to have French soldiers speaking French (among others, courtesy of allowing us to access localized voice files), and we'll see around 40 additional maps combined with Enemy Unknown's 80. That number will include UFO crash maps in urban and rural environments, instead of just forest. Will there be an XCOM base-defense mission? Firaxis didn't say no... which means almost certainly yes.

We're also getting a fifth class of soldier: the Mech trooper. But this isn't a class you're born into like the existing Assault, Support, Heavy, and Sniper - this is one that, after the proper facility is built, you can move any soldier into. He or she will lose all of their current class abilities, but gets to choose from a whole new ability tree up to their existing rank.



We don't yet know the full extent of the Mech Trooper's skill tree, but we do know that the first skill they unlock will be Collateral Damage, whcih will allow us to more easily target terrain (which Gupta says is designed to get us closer to the free-fire weapons of X-COM: UFO Defense). There will also be an upgrade that heals every XCOM soldier in a radius. They'll also have an ability that allows them to serve as mobile cover for XCOM troops, making it easier to cross no-man's-land stretches without being gunned down, a jumpjet system, and Damage Control, which reduces the damage taken for one turn.

Mechs won't be able to equip standard guns and items, but they'll have their own weapon upgrade tree that goes from mingun to rail gun to an energy weapon, and they'll be the first XCOM units to feature a flamethrower.

Presumably, these upgrades will come from researching the one new enemy (of several promised) that Firaxis is prepared to reveal: the Mechtoid. These armored sectoids remind me a lot of the mechs from the TV show Falling Skies, and have the ability to fire twice in a turn (much like the Heavy's Bulletstorm ability). If another sectoid mind-merges with him, he gains a damage-absorbing shield, but he doesn't gain the vulnerability of dying if the caster is taken out. Killing that guy just disables the shield.



Mechs sound impressive, but there's a reason to keep your best and brightest out of a set of metal pants: upgrading a soldier to Mech status disqualifies him or her from receiving genetic enhancements. Every trooper have five slots for upgrades: brain, eyes, skin, chest, and legs. Each will have two options to choose from (which can be swapped if you're willing to pay) and we've gotten the details on two of those sets.

On the brain, you'll be able to choose from Neural Feedback, which inflicts damage on any enemy attempting psi attacks (though doesn't reduce the chance of success) or Neural Dampening, which renders a soldier immune to panic and, should an enemy succeed in mind-controlling him or her, will simply knock them unconscious instead of turning him.



On the legs, you can either upgrade to Muscle Fiber, which lets a soldier climb walls without a skeleton suit, or Adaptive Bone Marrow, which provides limited health regeneration if they're wounded. But remember: you can't have both at once.

So there will be a lot more to spend your money, eleriuim, and alien alloys on in Enemy Within. Instead of increasing our cash flow, Firaxis has added a whole new resource, called Meld. Meld canisters will be randomly scattered throughout maps (in the same way that enemies are randomly distributed), but collecting them will require haste, because they have self-destruct timers. It's a system designed to get us moving quickly and recklessly instead of the slow, safe pace XCOM veterans have developed to keep our best and brightest alive. This is the one thing that sounds like it could be a bit artificially gamey to me, but I'm keeping an open mind.



Here' some more definitely good news: we're getting new grenade types, including a Needle grenade (unlocked after researching a Cryssalid corpse) with a large blast radius, but won't affect enemies in cover. Also, there will be stealth grenades that effectively splash allies with invisibility paint. That sounds overpowered, but Enemy Unknown reduces the critical bonus of stealth attacks from 100 to 30.

Speaking of rebalances, as someone who's played more than 250 hours of Enemy Unknown, I've established patterns in the abilities I choose for my soldiers. I always take Lightning Reflexes for my Assault troops in order to nullify the enemy's overwatch, I always take Sprinter for my Support troops to increase their mobility, and I almost always take Squad Sight for my Snipers. The alternatives to those choices - Up Close and Personal, Covering Fire, and Snap Shot - weren't even contenders.



In Enemy Within, the balance changes make that an extremely difficult choice. Instead of simply increasing your critical chance, Up Close and Personal will now give your Assault class a completely free shot when within four tiles of an enemy, allowing him or her to run in, take a shot, and run out. And rather than waiting for the enemy to take a shot before returning fire, Covering Fire will now take a shot before an attacking enemy, giving you a chance to kill them before they can even inflict damage! For the Sniper, Snap Shot has had its aim penalty reduced from 20 to 10, and Squad Sight (incredibly powerful in Enemy Unknown) will now only do critical damage if you use the Headshot ability, reducing its effectiveness a bit. All of the sudden those two decisions have gone up there to the toughest of any ability choices, meaning I'll want to maintain at least one of each type of each class.

Other upgrades? There are tons. Reaper rounds are an item that will give a ballistic weapon a bonus to critical hit chance, but a reduction to accuracy. Sounds like a good item for the Assault class before laser weapons are unlocked.



The Support class's Deep Pockets is redesigned. It will now give a Support trooper twice as many charges for grenades, medkits, arc throwers, or any other item with limited uses. But don't worry - there's now a Foundry upgrade that allows us to unlock the two-item capacity upgrade for every class!

What's happening on the strategic level? Well, we don't know yet. Firaxis isn't yet declassifying its plans, other than to say that there will be significant changes. This might well suck me in for another 250 hours.

...And then some, because there are new Second Wave options coming as well. There's one that will bring back some of the old-school XCOM terror by giving non-cover-using enemies (like Mechtoids and Sectopods) a 50% chance to fire on your soldiers on sight, and, far more exciting for me, one that randomizes the upgrade trees for soldiers beyond their initial class-specific ability. Imagine a Heavy with Lightning Reflexes and Battle Scanner? You might have that, if you're lucky. The possibilities are endless. Oh, and there's now a Reduced Beginner VO option that will shut up Drs. Vahlen and Shen, allowing us to do our walk of failed Iron Man Shame without being talked down to.

On the multiplayer end, we're getting eight new maps - a couple of which, admittedly, are recycled from the campaign. There's also a much-needed option to pre-configure your squads offline, before jumping into a match and awkwardly fiddling with your points for 20 minutes before starting a game.
 

Kitako

Arcane
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
2,036
Location
UK
And what the heck is "offline" squad editing supposed to mean? I never felt as if I was under time pressure when editing my squads. It's not as if you get attacked by UFOs every 5 second while in the base.
I fear it's some Facebook shit, like that death wall they released some time ago. Reading "offline" as "out of the game". Would make no sense otherwise.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
as someone who's played more than 250 hours of Enemy Unknown

:what:

Man, I enjoyed the first playthrough and had some fun in the second, but it really started to drag there.
Definitely couldn't bear more than that.
 

Zewp

Arcane
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
3,566
Codex 2013
The additions sound okay, but unless they fix alien spawn mechanics it's still not worth playing. And the won't fix it, so it's not worth playing.
 

Multi-headed Cow

Guest
No random maps, no word on retarded scripted missions getting un-scripted. As much as I thought new Xcom was good there's nothing in this expansion that gets me excited. $10 sale price I'm thinking. 50% more maps still means I'm gonna be replaying a hell of a lot of the same goddamn maps in a new campaign. Ugh.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,274
Location
Terra da Garoa
The changes have great potential... there are tons of upgrades, if they keep resources rare hopefully you'll start to really need to manage them, upgrading only some soldiers, and being really butthurt if one of them dies. If not, it will be even more inverter difficulty curve, with ubermensch mowing down end game aliens with two shots. Do this right, Jake!

Also, no words on the campaign itself... I hope they make some BIG changes, just replaying the same campaign AGAIN, but with more maps here and there sounds lame... especially that shitty cakewalk last mission.
 
Last edited:

Cyberarmy

Love fool
Patron
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
8,448
Location
Smyrna - Scalanouva
Divinity: Original Sin 2
They really need to change encounter design, just let every mission be like terror missions.
And there has to be some more mission variety, (not like that shallow bomb disarm or VIP missions) defending some key places like nuclear reactors, historical landmarks, some large indoor maps(like hospitals or hotels maybe a museum) where snipers become less usefull, more civilian evacute missions or some large scale battle in which we help earth soldiers to defeat aliens.

They are wasting a really good potential.
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
Lol @ you people who thought they'd make significant gameplay changes? This is 2K we're talking about... expac is just going to be more shitty maps.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom