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X-COM Firaxis - XCOM: Enemy Unknown + Enemy Within Expansion

Discussion in 'Tactical Gaming' started by Peter, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. ArchAngel Arcane Sad Loser

    ArchAngel
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    You just need to survive month 1 with least possible number of casualties and rest is easy. You need to rush one Sgt and get 5th party member, that is key to survive month 2.
     
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  2. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    I know that. I'm only wondering how many restarts people need to get through the first two months. When you're watching LPs on Youtube there is never any restart, be it Beaglerush, Chris Odd, Marbozir or Zemalf. They always start a series and breeze through the initial stage with very few casualties or none at all. So are they just super good or super lucky?
     
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  3. IDtenT Menace to sobriety! Patron

    IDtenT
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    Divinity: Original Sin
    Or they preplay the first bit multiple times?
     
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  4. ArchAngel Arcane Sad Loser

    ArchAngel
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    I mostly restart if I lose any soldiers in first 2 missions. Then I only restart if I don't manage to get 5th soldier before first Terror mission (well you can try it with 4 but it is very hard to do that with no loses). After that restarting in months 2 only happens if you manage to lose more than 2 higher level soldiers. Also weapons are more important than armor. I had my characters one shot even with armor so I would rather kill enemies and not have them shoot at all. Also you never let enemy shoot at your characters if they are not flashbanged, your team is not under smoke, you are not covering or you are not out of sight. Even full cover without one of these will not really help you.
     
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  5. gurugeorge Arcane Patron

    gurugeorge
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    Strap Yourselves In
    1) NEVER reveal fog of war with any move after the first in your turn - maybe the second if you're really experienced, know the map, and know what you're doing. This is the absolute number one golden rule of XCOM. The game is tuned so that your team will usually be able to handle one group of aliens. If you reveal more aliens while you're fighting, your chances of winning reduce drastically. Another way of looking at it is that you want to maximize your number of moves on an alien reveal. If you reveal aliens on the second, third or fourth move, you've run out of options and then you have both the new group of aliens with a full set of moves (while you have none), plus the aliens you're already trying to cope with. Very, very bad news.

    2) Positioning is everything: always go for as much full cover as possible. Generally, it's good to find a positioning setup that gives most of your team full cover, and "pull" to that position (with overwatches).

    3) If you're stacking up the side of a building, the leader (first mover to that spot) should be one tile back from the tile on the edge, then reveal the fog of war around the corner with the first move on the next turn.

    4) So long as you follow rule 1, you can scoot your team around the map pretty fast by stacking them behind the leader.
     
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  6. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    Yeah I know these rules and try to follow them. But after a few more restarts I've decided I just don't enjoy Impossible. It's just way too obnoxious and RNG dependent. You can't alpha-strike pods reliably, you can't prevent covers being destroyed and getting your soldiers exposed and critted and the rest of the squad panicking, running out of cover and shooting each other. Very often you don't have a choice but to trade shots at mid-range with aliens which is always a recipe for disaster in XCOM, especially whenever Thin Men are involved. You HAVE to alpha strike Thin Men or you just straight up lose. And often you just can't prevent a squad wipe no matter what you do.

    I've just had an crashed UFO mission where the approach was through a dash-worth of exposed terrain with barely any cover. So I progress carefully and hunkering down. I trigger a pod and the Outsider through a hole in the wall. They all retreat further into the ship. I advance and hunker down behind half-cover (no other is available). On the AI turn one of my hunkered-down soldiers gets one-shotted by the Outsider. Another one panics, runs out of cover a gets critted and one-shotted by a mind-merged Sectoid. And another one gets hit for 3 damage, despite being hunkered down. And then another Sectoid pod wanders in.

    How I could've prevented it? I don't see how, even if I was a tactical genius. Do I just camp near the starting point, keep clicking End Turn and wait for the aliens to find me or what? It's just sheer insanity. Restarting runs on Impossible over and over and over because you can get wiped for a tiny mistake - or even if you don't make any mistakes at all - is just obnoxious.

    I go back to C/I or maybe another Long War run (although those can be obnoxious too, given the insane amount of missions in a campaign). I mean you get punished hard on Classic too but at least you can reliably alpha-strike pods, which removes a huge amount of risk and RNG from the game.
     
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  7. Zeriel Arcane

    Zeriel
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    Most people (who bother to do it at all) just do I+I once for the achievement. It's definitely not for everyone. I can't say I enjoyed it in a "I'd want to do that every time" way, but it was fun for what it was once.

    XCOM 2 was so easy that Impossible there felt like Classic on X1 though.
     
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  8. gurugeorge Arcane Patron

    gurugeorge
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    Strap Yourselves In
    It is ridiculously RNG-dependent at the beginning on Impossible, that's true, especially on the Strategic side. There's no shame in trying a few starts to get something that doesn't just fail stupidly early on. Once you're "in the saddle" it's tough but doable thereafter.
     
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  9. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    Yes.

    If you don't speed hack the game to let you overwatch everyone in place for 10 straight turns in 20s, and then do that in between every single squad move, you aren't actually playing XCom Ironman Impossible correctly.
     
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  10. Galdred Studio Draconis Patron Developer

    Galdred
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    It took me an embarassingly high number of restarts to get there, which led me to knowing all ins and outs of the worst maps (construction yard, cemetery, road bridge, ...), which helped tremendously. If you don't satellite rush, it also makes it easier to not need a perfect start.
     
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  11. ArchAngel Arcane Sad Loser

    ArchAngel
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    Tactics for I/I are retarded but that is how you need to play.

    The worst maps are usually council missions.
     
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  12. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    Nah, in council missions the spawns are fixed plus most maps are alpha-strike friendly.

    But if you get the road bridge or the street in an abduction mission and you're forced to trade shots with Thin Men at mid-range you WILL wipe in two or three turns unless you're insanely lucky. In Long War the snakes are mostly rendered harmless by free flashgangs and medkits but in vanilla they are straight up retarded.
     
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  13. Jaedar Arcane Patron

    Jaedar
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    Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    If you've ever watched him "live" you'd know he frequently spends like 10-15 minutes per turn, sometimes playing the same mission for 4+ hours if it's a long/hard one (especially in long war).
     
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  14. ArchAngel Arcane Sad Loser

    ArchAngel
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    Yes but in first 2 months they throw more enemies at you than normal missions.
     
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  15. cretin Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Douchebag! Possibly Retarded Edgy

    cretin
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    Kind of want to give nucom another crack, where should I start? Long war? LWR? Skip to Xcom 2? LW2?

    I played through nucom back when it first released havent really touched it since.
     
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  16. gurugeorge Arcane Patron

    gurugeorge
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    Strap Yourselves In
    I'd say the original XCOM (the second updated version, whatever it's called, with Meld) + Long War. That's really the best the nu franchise has to offer in terms of the classic scary alien invasion scenario, and the LW mod really shines.

    XCOM2 is a very different scenario. It has some cool things about it but it's basically a story about resistance once the aliens have won, so it has a very different feel to it. Plus there are a lot of timed missions which is a bit annoying really. Also the maps are modular, and while they did it quite well, it loses some of the meticulously handcrafted feel of the XCOM maps. I don't know, while XCOM2 has got good aspects to it and is worth playing at some point, it just feels more messy to me than the first game, and I'd recommend as above first if you're reconnecting with the nu franchise. LW2 never seemed to get as much kudos as LW either.
     
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  17. Mazisky Magister

    Mazisky
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    The problem with Xcom 1 are the maps tbh, handcrafted and limited does not go well with this kind of games.

    Xcom 2 is superior in every aspect but the atmosphere, which is crap compared to original or EU\EW 90's horror

    Enemy within with procedural maps and long war would be the best modern turn based
     
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  18. geno Learned

    geno
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    I find Long War Rebalance more enjoyable than the original mod. It tries to address the problems with the pod system, overwatch spam or enemies having a free moving turn.
     
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  19. mastroego Arcane

    mastroego
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    I've played a lot with that, and it does fix almost everything in a way that makes inconceivable to go back the "original" Long War.
    But, at least with the last version I played (and those change A LOT), it always comes to a point where it's flatly impossible to go on, the enemies becomes HORDES of enemies massively armored and so on.
    Regardless of starting difficulty.

    Which basically brought to me to a deadlock with a game that I loved.
    I can't go back, and I can't go forward.
    :negative:
     
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  20. mastroego Arcane

    mastroego
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    Shit.
    This guy just pumps out update after update so the only way to play a campaign is to start at some point and keep your config that way while he keeps doing his thing.

    Now, I invested who knows how many hours in my last campaign which was supposed to be the "perfect" (and probably final) one, getting my team exactly where I wanted it in terms of compositions and abilities and so on. Eventually I had to rage-quit because of the issue I wrote about earlier.

    I was on version 1.27.10.
    This I just noticed in the changelog of 1.27.11 (!!!!!!!):
    Strategic:
    - Alien level is now reduced by difficulty. Specifically, New Alien level = Old Alien Level * Difficulty[0.625/0.75/0.875/1.0] - This makes it so that later game, on the easier difficulties, the aliens are at a significantly lower level. Makes easier difficulties much easier into the later game. Note this change will work immediately on any ongoing campaign.


    SHIT.
    I might have been able to salvage that campaign, if I didn't rage-quit and uninstall.
    SHIT.
    And we're now at version 1.35.04.......
     
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  21. mastroego Arcane

    mastroego
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    ...and this was added in version 1.28.06

    - Alien pods that are revealed on the 1st/2nd/3rd turn will now have a 100%/66%/33% chance to be taken "Off Guard" which means they will receive no scamper movement - Helps make those missions where you activate the entire map on the first turn a lot easier

    Oh Lord.
    By the time I've read them all through version 1.35 I will want to start a new campaign again, I know that already....
     
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  22. mastroego Arcane

    mastroego
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    ...and these from version 1.32.00

    - Peter Van Doorn, Annette Durand, Shaojie Zhang, Hank Miller, Hans Graft, and Stanislav Orlov have unique perks - Makes them feel more special without interfering with their class perks
    - Annette and the Furies all arrive with 3 extra levels than previously - Makes them easier to use as you get them rather late
     
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  23. mastroego Arcane

    mastroego
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    Fuck it.
    Reinstalling XCOM, Long War and LW Rebalance
    :negative:
     
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  24. ArchAngel Arcane Sad Loser

    ArchAngel
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    From what I know his idea behind the mod is that if you take too long to finish the game enemies will get progressively stronger until you can no longer fight them without losing soldiers all the time which will cost you the game. Basically you are on a hidden timer. Not the most fun design philosophy.
     
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  25. mastroego Arcane

    mastroego
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    Yeah, I kinda agree, but it was more than that, there was a specific issue with lower difficulties not being lowered in that regard, which probably the author overlooked because he only plays on Impossible, and the player base isn't that large.
     
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