X-COM Firaxis - XCOM: Enemy Unknown + Enemy Within Expansion

[Gord]

Should have just called her Heidi Müller...

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

I think she's an alien, because all other xcom operatives speak American English. :patriot:

 

[Zeriel]

I think she's an alien, because all other xcom operatives speak American English. :patriot:

Second Wave infiltration. THIN WOMEN DLC TO COME AT A LATER DATE.

 

[Morgoth]

Did anyone get what nationality Dr. Vahlen is supposed to be, by the way?
Someone said she's german, but honestly, whenever she talks german (I think once in the tutorial and one time later on during some cutscene), she has a terrible accent.
And her other accent when talking english doesn't exactly sound like a native german speaker to me, either.
Not mentioning that "Vahlen" isn't exactly a typical german name.

If she is, however, they could at least have put her in some dirndl, given her blonde hair and some mug of beer (maybe also a cutscene showing her eating Bratwurst mit Sauerkraut) to really drive it home that she's supposed to be german.

She has a terrible accent because she's dubbed by an American actor who tries too hard faking German accent. This is very obvious during the tutorial area when she tries to talk to the hand grenade dude. Horrible, just horrible.

Also Vahlen is one of those old ancient dinosaur German names that nobody uses today anymore.

 

[Gord]

She has a terrible accent because she's dubbed by an American actor who tries too hard faking German accent. This is very obvious during the tutorial area when she tries to talk to the hand grenade dude. Horrible, just horrible.

Yeah, I thought as much. I don't get why they can't just hire native speakers for this. How hard can it be to find one?

Also Vahlen is one of those old ancient dinosaur German names that nobody uses today anymore.

Considering their choice of some soldier names, I start to see a pattern there...

 

[Thane Solus]

i still play it but for the love of god, how much i hate consoles. They made this for console and they didnt bother to actually make a decent port for PC.

- no random maps
- retarded AI and some spawns are static and always on the same spot
- cant free aim
- cant pick up stuff from dead soldiers
- no base assault
- horrible, broken DLC. First one from the pre-orders lets you change the color of the armors, you cant do that by default HAHA, second one its a pop-a-mole shit, that initiates too early and overpowers you.

I'll never give money again to these retards.

 

[Zeriel]

That "here, have free end-game tech that most people never even get!" aspect of the DLC really rubbed me wrong, on top of the whole scripted set-pieces being boring as fuck. The one good thing XCOM really had going for itself was the decent challenge offered on Classic and above, and they had to go and make a DLC that hands you power? Oh, Solomon, I really want to trust you guys, but you keep doing all the wrong things while saying all the right words.

 

[Zeriel]

That "here, have free end-game tech that most people never even get!" aspect of the DLC really rubbed me wrong, on top of the whole scripted set-pieces being boring as fuck. The one good thing XCOM really had going for itself was the decent challenge offered on Classic and above, and they had to go and make a DLC that hands you power? Oh, Solomon, I really want to trust you guys, but you keep doing all the wrong things while saying all the right words.

The challenge is also artificial if you ask me. I really do not think that Ironman is a challenge mode. It is simply punish yourself mode. The real challenge should come from hard to determine strategy, which in this case is actually shit easy once you realize that you should pump satellites and focus on Laser/ Plasma equipments. There is a good AI implementation where the enemy actually tries to flank you with surprisingly kamikaze maneuvers (I like that). But besides that (and even there) the AI is fail. The enemies do not communicate effectively with each other creating good formations and taking advantage of diverse abilities of different aliens, but rather act individually (in a fucking SQUAD based tactics game).

Any level of difficulty in any game can be contextualized as "punish yourself" mode, to be fair. I'm not seeing the big distinction between XCOM and any other game. With any type of game, you ultimately have to make the judgement call whether you find the type of challenge tedious or fun. For me, XCOM's challenge was fun enough while I was learning and beating the game. Once beaten it lacks something to keep it fresh, but that's more a problem of the linear design than the challenge, per se.

It could use less of a reliance on individual soldiers and the class/leveling system, but I've never found the game to be particularly unfair in the way a lot of people complain about it ("Too much RNG!", "One mistake and it's over!", etc).

The AI system is a pile of shit, but it's hard to address individual issues like that without addressing the static maps and the engine, which seem to be a source of many of the questionable design decisions.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

The one good thing XCOM really had going for itself was the decent challenge offered on Classic and above

neither. the game wasn't challenging, complex, it was just hard and unforgiving because of factors out of your control.

 

[Zeriel]

The one good thing XCOM really had going for itself was the decent challenge offered on Classic and above

neither. the game wasn't challenging, complex, it was just hard and unforgiving because of factors out of your control.

Yeah, that's where I disagree with a lot of people. The "factors outside of your control" to me only seem that way when you're learning the game. Once you understand it, they're very much within your control.

 

[Gord]

Well, to be fair, the AI still does use cover, flanks you, exploits some tactical mistakes of the player (like bunching units together, failing to take cover, etc.) and I have seen them using abilities/different attacks quite intelligently from time to time (like floaters throwing two grenades at me instead of shooting to ensure a kill). So I wouldn't call it braindead.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Well, to be fair, the AI still does use cover, flanks you, exploits some tactical mistakes of the player (like bunching units together, failing to take cover, etc.) and I have seen them using abilities/different attacks quite intelligently from time to time (like floaters throwing two grenades at me instead of shooting to ensure a kill). So I wouldn't call it braindead.

I agree. The flanking and grenade throwing is indeed good. But can be easily avoided with a slight experience. That is the problem isn't it? Very easy to beat AI.

 

[Zeriel]

I think you can place a large part of the blame on the AI system being tied up in the "teleporting patrol paths of inactive enemies who only start searching for players and initiate combat once they're activated" system. Which to me seems like it was designed around the flaws of static, UE3 maps. If you ever DO activate two or more packs of enemies at once (which is horrible for the player, but still...) their abilities do overlap and cooperate in very interesting ways. Floaters can launch themselves behind enemy lines, while front-line units are taking up your attention in the front. The AI never really uses this well in single-player, but this is because the game encourages you to never activate a pack of floaters and a pack of something else at the same time. If you ever play multiplayer, the strategies players can come up with for the aliens with a big point-pool are really inspiring. In some ways, the aliens are more interesting than the human units.

Late-game, the difference between aliens and human classes does become a little silly. Every time I get to the plasma/6 colonels stage in the game, I find myself wishing sectoids started wearing Carapace Armor, using sniper rifles, etc. It would be amazing if there were Chrysallids with ghost armor. Not literally, as amusing as the image in my head is, but mechanically. We get all these crazy tools to trivialize the enemy, but they never get much of anything. To be fair, that's part of the original game too (blaster launcher spam, anyone?) and part of the journey. X-COM was always about starting out feeling overwhelmed and outmatched, and ending the game supremely in control and dominant. I can admit that my desire for always a little more challenge probably at some point conflicts with their idea of good design or a good game for the majority.

None of this inspires much hope in me, though. The core problem with the game is a very deep engine systems thing. My guess is a sequel will just be more of the same with perhaps some more simulation aspects and depth in the Geoscape.

 

[Zeriel]

I think you can place a large part of the blame on the AI system being tied up in the "teleporting patrol paths of inactive enemies who only start searching for players and initiate combat once they're activated" system. Which to me seems like it was designed around the flaws of static, UE3 maps. If you ever DO activate two or more packs of enemies at once (which is horrible for the player, but still...) their abilities do overlap and cooperate in very interesting ways. Floaters can launch themselves behind enemy lines, while front-line units are taking up your attention in the front. The AI never really uses this well in single-player, but this is because the game encourages you to never activate a pack of floaters and a pack of something else at the same time. If you ever play multiplayer, the strategies players can come up with for the aliens with a big point-pool are really inspiring. In some ways, the aliens are more interesting than the human units.

I think the use of the word co-operation is giving the devs too much credit. The Aliens do not really co-operate, they just outnumber/ are a larger group than a single one. The entire launching behind your lines is typically fail. Or was fail when I played it because then I could move into the cover the alien just moved into and kill it by outflanking it.

That's exactly my point, though. When it's a single group of floaters, Launch is the most useless ability ever. When you've got 3 mutons moving in to flank you, and a floater launches behind you, suddenly it's a much more serious proposition. Players are much better at this (i.e, you can launch ALL your floaters, and then they have to choose between taking out the floaters and letting your other units waltz up and rape them, or letting the floaters just get flank shots all day). Now I'm genuinely curious if the AI is moddable. My guess is no--seems like most of what people can mod is just simple variables like enemy stats. It would be hilarious to mod the AI to launch into full cover every time just beyond max dashing range and other stuff like that.

 

[Captain Shrek]

[

That's exactly my point, though. When it's a single group of floaters, Launch is the most useless ability ever. When you've got 3 mutons moving in to flank you, and a floater launches behind you, suddenly it's a much more serious proposition. Players are much better at this (i.e, you can launch ALL your floaters, and then they have to choose between taking out the floaters and letting your other units waltz up and rape them, or letting the floaters just get flank shots all day). Now I'm genuinely curious if the AI is moddable. My guess is no--seems like most of what people can mod is just simple variables like enemy stats. It would be hilarious to mod the AI to launch into full cover every time just beyond max dashing range and other stuff like that.

I think now we are on level.

Firstly, MP gamplay has the best AI possible, i.e. Humans vs. Humans. My complaint is this: The AI of the game (as in SP) fails to account for what you just described and it is obvious that there needs to be inter-unit communication (handled by player in the MP) which is negligible within the game discounting the poor sectoids. If the AI is moddable and if someone can put these things in, the game would become that much more interesting.

This brings me to my earlier point, which now I am sure you will agree with.

The challenge of the game ought to come from the number of tactical options you must choose from and not die rolls and certainly not trash mobs (throw huge number of aliens at the player).

XCOM does succeed on the die rolls based challenge front, but does not provide enough reason to engage in deep tactics, making the game repetitive in mid/long run.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

The AI never really uses this well in single-player, but this is because the game encourages you to never activate a pack of floaters and a pack of something else at the same time.

because the game is actually balanced to be played like that, it's balanced to be played knowing the rules in advance and exploiting them. it's not a matter of developing a better strategy, a team effort, an optimal build, it's all about "don't pull extra or you'll lose" which is nothing else but exploiting the system.
you're not learning the game, you're exploiting its holes. you're not outsmarting the rules, you're cheating.
that's why the game sucks.

 

[knightley]

The AI never really uses this well in single-player, but this is because the game encourages you to never activate a pack of floaters and a pack of something else at the same time.

because the game is actually balanced to be played like that, it's balanced to be played knowing the rules in advance and exploiting them. it's not a matter of developing a better strategy, a team effort, an optimal build, it's all about "don't pull extra or you'll lose" which is nothing else but exploiting the system.
you're not learning the game, you're exploiting its holes. you're not outsmarting the rules, you're cheating.
that's why the game sucks.

The game is not fun? -> You played it wrong.

 

[Gord]

The game is played much like other strategy/tactics games in principle - you find out about the rules and the behaviour of the enemy and then act accordingly.
Outside of some save-scumming in my first playthrough I never got the feeling that I was cheating, though.
Fights with large numbers of aliens will simply result in casualties, but as the single soldier is much more valuable than in the old X-COM, you have to avoid such situations by advancing carefully.
This is a weakness insofar, as it does indeed prevent many potentially interesting situations that might arise from a combination of more aliens of different kind (not that the old game had much of those).
It might have helped to include spawns of mixed groups on higher difficulty levels, as in principle the diverse abilites of the aliens could make for greatly enhanced gameplay due to interactions between different races.
Now, a lot of people seem to think that the only viable way of playing is advancing by two or three squares and then putting the entire squad into overwatch.
That's also the most boring way to do it, though. Using the special abilities of different classes and playing more aggressively (still somewhat careful not to pull too many spawns/patrols at once) resulted in a much more interesting game for me.
Eventually the missions will still become too similar, although again I felt that the old one suffered a bit from this in the late-game as well.

 

[Zeriel]

Yeah, some of my best memories of the game come from getting in over my head and fighting 3-4 packs of enemies at once. Sectopods launching artillery strikes, multiple heavy floaters launching behind your frontlines, and grenade radiuses and muton berserkers all thrown together in a single turn is hellishly fun. It's really too bad the design encourages you to never get into a situation like that. Hell, if I were a level designer for them, I would have made the scripted set-pieces (Alien Base, Temple Ship, Overseer Ship) guarantee situations like that.

 

[felipepepe]

Yup, got into some very crazy fights sometimes by just making my sniper fly on the beggining of the level. Still, it was very fun and challenging but doable, they should definetly add battles where enemies hunt for you.

 

[Mangoose]

HOLY shit, this game has a 89 metascore?

 

[knightley]

http://www.polygon.com/features/2013/1/31/3928710/making-of-xcoms-jake-solomon-firaxis-sid-meier

Seems like there was a version which is just an old xcom with better visuals, but hey, we cannot let that kind of game loose in the world.

 

[Zeriel]

http://www.polygon.com/features/2013/1/31/3928710/making-of-xcoms-jake-solomon-firaxis-sid-meier

Seems like there was a version which is just an old xcom with better visuals, but hey, we cannot let that kind of game loose in the world.

I like the part where you can see Solomon trying to hide the fact he prefers his original vision of the game (esp. the maps) to what was released. That article really drives home that it's not necessarily the individual developers that make shitty games, but the industry/company as a whole.

 

[knightley]

Hmmm, crappy designer and crappy industry/company as a whole do not exclude each other. In this case I certainly lay the majority of the blame at the feet of the designer.

Every time somebody referenced something in the original game, the reply goes like "ohhh, we tried that, yo, we had a prototype just like that, but it was no good, what we have now is just too cool, see?"

 

[Zeriel]

Hmmm, crappy designer and crappy industry/company as a whole do not exclude each other. In this case I certainly lay the majority of the blame at the feet of the designer.

Every time somebody referenced something in the original game, the reply goes like "ohhh, we tried that, yo, we had a prototype just like that, but it was no good, what we have now is just too cool, see?"

Considering his initial instinct was right, and he still says he preferred elements of the original prototype, I'm more inclined to believe it's a matter of peer pressure/keeping a career.