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First time playing The Temple of Elemental Evil

Melcar

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Doesn't Temple+ also add/changes a lot of shit to the game? Besides the obvious classes and races additions, many feats have changes and I think some weapons too. While it does seem to be the better mod in terms of bug fixes and QoL tweaks, to say Co8 (without their new content) is bad because of changes to the base game while recommending Temple+ seems a bit silly.
 
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Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
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Codex Year of the Donut
Doesn't Temple+ also add/changes a lot of shit to the game? Besides the obvious classes and races, many feats have changes and I think some weapons too. While it does seem to be the better mod in terms of bug fixes and QoL tweaks, to say Co8 (without their new content) is bad because of changs to the base game while recommending Temple+ seems a bit silly.
Sitra Achara what say you to these accusations? Is Temple+ with optional content disabled unfit for a purist playthrough?
 

ghostdog

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Doesn't Temple+ also add/changes a lot of shit to the game? Besides the obvious classes and races, many feats have changes and I think some weapons too. While it does seem to be the better mod in terms of bug fixes and QoL tweaks, to say Co8 (without their new content) is bad because of changs to the base game while recommending Temple+ seems a bit silly.
Aren't all these gameplay changes/additions Temple+ offers optional? As I see it, the main attraction of Temple+ is that it's an engine enhancement/recreation that fixes many bugs and issues with newer systems and also offers some new QoL features.
 
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You need to use better tactics. You don't need to grind.

co8 also makes the game harder than it was originally. Might be worth your while to just restart with Temple+ instead (which fixes engine bugs and adds a bunch of classes and such but doesn't modify content).
You can choose to just use the bugfixes with Temple+ as well. It's easily configurable with its launch menu.
 

rojay

Scholar
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
174
The additional content in the Co8 mod in the early game is excellent and you don't have to do the post-Temple stuff if you don't want to. End of the day it's more turn-based combat in the ToEE engine.

It's not going to make you forget that time you totally did that amazing thing with that faction in New Vegas, or how you made a baby with a teenage wingless elf, but if you like the turn-based combat in ToEE then it's good stuff. If you don't like the turn-based combat in ToEE, I can't help you.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
It's all documented in
http://files.co8.org/docs/Circle of Eight Modpack 8.1.0 - Release Notes.txt

Of course there are so many changes who has time to read all that, especially when you've never played before? Here are some examples

- Made moathouse giant frogs and courtyard bandits trigger each other, so you don't get to kill them one at a time.

- Made ghouls near the gelatinous cube rush in to aid the harpies on Level 1.

- Made it so ogre will join the gnolls near the southern entrance on Level 1.
- Made it so Romag's troops will join the fight if you attack him.

- Overhauled Lareth and troops battle scenario and made them reactive.
- Tweaked Lareth's prebuffing.
- Updated Lareth's spell selection to include Dispel Magic and Obscuring Mist.
- Improved Lareth's guards' AI to allow them to wake each other up if they're asleep.
BTW, coincidentally these examples are all my doing :p
Absolutely retarded. Why would giant frogs fight together with bandits? Why are ghouls rushing to aid harpies? Ghouls are mindless undead, why are they fighting side by side with harpies? Did these bandits just happen to tame giant frogs? Are any of these bandits rangers? Why are they taming frogs?

Can you justify these changes in any way other than "lol it's more challenging?" An encounter also has to make sense in the world of the game.

Was it this way in the printed adventure? If so, fine. But you better be ready to give me page numbers to justify this.
 
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Sitra Achara

Arcane
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
1,832
Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
It's all documented in
http://files.co8.org/docs/Circle of Eight Modpack 8.1.0 - Release Notes.txt

Of course there are so many changes who has time to read all that, especially when you've never played before? Here are some examples

- Made moathouse giant frogs and courtyard bandits trigger each other, so you don't get to kill them one at a time.

- Made ghouls near the gelatinous cube rush in to aid the harpies on Level 1.

- Made it so ogre will join the gnolls near the southern entrance on Level 1.
- Made it so Romag's troops will join the fight if you attack him.

- Overhauled Lareth and troops battle scenario and made them reactive.
- Tweaked Lareth's prebuffing.
- Updated Lareth's spell selection to include Dispel Magic and Obscuring Mist.
- Improved Lareth's guards' AI to allow them to wake each other up if they're asleep.
BTW, coincidentally these examples are all my doing :p
Absolutely retarded. Why would giant frogs fight together with bandits? Why are ghouls rushing to aid harpies? Ghouls are mindless undead, why are they fighting side by side with harpies? Did these bandits just happen to tame giant frogs? Are any of these bandits rangers? Why are they taming frogs?

Can you justify these changes in any way other than "lol it's more challenging?" An encounter also has to make sense in the world of the game.

Was it this way in the printed adventure? If so, fine. But you better be ready to give me page numbers to justify this.
Ghouls- yeah, it's explicitly stated there

Frogs - the triggering refers to within the same group, not across groups. In vanilla you could trigger the frogs one at a time, their buddies nearby would remain hidden until you approached. Likewise with the bandits. IIRC it was due to an engine bug related to them being concealed.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
All right all right, I'll allow it.

I'll also credit it positively that you were prepared to answer my concerns (taken to you heatedly) in a calm and assertive manner.
 
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Sitra Achara

Arcane
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
1,832
Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Doesn't Temple+ also add/changes a lot of shit to the game? Besides the obvious classes and races, many feats have changes and I think some weapons too. While it does seem to be the better mod in terms of bug fixes and QoL tweaks, to say Co8 (without their new content) is bad because of changs to the base game while recommending Temple+ seems a bit silly.
Sitra Achara what say you to these accusations? Is Temple+ with optional content disabled unfit for a purist playthrough?
New races and classes are all optional. Feats, the vast majority is locked behind options (Non-core option, or require setting max level > 10). I recall also gating some stuff with "isCo8" (auto detected). There are a few non-toggleable feats and other additions, off the top of my head the disarm ability, some AI changes (notably waking up from sleep), craftable item effects. However 9 out of 10 purists surveyed found it acceptable.
 

Jasede

Arcane
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Sad Loser
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Messages
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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
I meant the Temple thing. I bought ToEE on release and beat it soon after. I think I actually learned about it from the Codex when I was a teenager...

Or did you mean the Temple mod thing is so good it'll warrant a replay? I know when I played the game it was insanely buggy (but playable.)
 

TheSoul

Learned
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
123
If I'm playing on temple+, is it recommended to change the settings so I have 0 npcs and 8 custom in my party? Do the extra races/classes add anything or is it better to keep things traditional?
Also, is there a recommended text size for ultrawide monitors so I can actually read it without binoculars.
 

Gargaune

Magister
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
1,967
If I'm playing on temple+, is it recommended to change the settings so I have 0 npcs and 8 custom in my party?
Probably a good idea to stick to the vanilla rules if it's your first go. You might wanna pick up some NPCs for a while, bigger XP share when you don't etc.

Also, is there a recommended text size for ultrawide monitors so I can actually read it without binoculars.
Drop the resolution as low as you can, I was playing at 1024x640 on my 1680x1050 screen. Below that, I think the UI goes screwy.

*dreams of ToEE gameplay with BG3 graphics*
I dunno, I think ToEE looks pretty good aside from that weird perspective artifact, and I'll happily take that over having to wrestle with some of the worst camera controls ever made, like in BG3.
 

gurugeorge

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London, UK
Strap Yourselves In
If I'm playing on temple+, is it recommended to change the settings so I have 0 npcs and 8 custom in my party?
Probably a good idea to stick to the vanilla rules if it's your first go. You might wanna pick up some NPCs for a while, bigger XP share when you don't etc.

Also, is there a recommended text size for ultrawide monitors so I can actually read it without binoculars.
Drop the resolution as low as you can, I was playing at 1024x640 on my 1680x1050 screen. Below that, I think the UI goes screwy.

*dreams of ToEE gameplay with BG3 graphics*
I dunno, I think ToEE looks pretty good aside from that weird perspective artifact, and I'll happily take that over having to wrestle with some of the worst camera controls ever made, like in BG3.

Oh it looks great - for the time.
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,604
Location
Perched on a tree
I found a following advice on the GOG forum: "1-Download the Circle of 8 Modpack with New Content. Tons of new quests, even some mini romances, great fun." And decided to give it a try -_-. Why do you not recommend it for first playthrough, except for the combat difficulty?

Combat difficulty is just fine before the post game autism.
Also, Verbonosc is 20 times bigger than it should be, a huge waste of time on the player's end the first time you get there (you don't want to get there twice anyway)
Additional content isn't that good anyway so playing with the original content only you'll know the devs weren't responsible for this and that.
Co8's Arena is nice though, that's the only content upgrade.


I'm still baffled that after all these years the only big mod for ToEE is this crap.

There is 2 other mods for ToEE, the latest one is a bit weird because of 3D models walking on flat board-game maps.


I meant the Temple thing. I bought ToEE on release and beat it soon after. I think I actually learned about it from the Codex when I was a teenager...

Or did you mean the Temple mod thing is so good it'll warrant a replay? I know when I played the game it was insanely buggy (but playable.)

It is, and not just one.
New classes and races do a lot for re-playability.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
46,197
Codex Year of the Donut
ToEE was intended for 800x600 and only 800x600. :M
Tim Cain said:
By default, the game runs at 800x600, but resolution can go up to 1280x1024. We support 16 or 32 bit depth. We kept the main interface pretty dynamic to handle these changes in resolution.

Playing these older pre-rendered games at higher resolution completely ruins the art btw, they were never intended to be so tiny.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Sawyerite
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May 29, 2010
Messages
32,049
Playing these older pre-rendered games at higher resolution completely ruins the art btw, they were never intended to be so tiny.
Tim wasn't entirely honest. At 1024x768 the font becomes Codex-level-small, any higher than that and it's unreadable.
 

Kabas

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Messages
597
I remember getting bored during the later part of the game until my casters finally got enough gold and xp for crafting.
The game suddenly became fun again as each battle won meant a new trinket for my party.
 

Jigby

Augur
Joined
May 9, 2009
Messages
240
To me the best improvement fun-wise is the alternative xp curve. You have to level squat somewhat, think where you're going next unlike vanilla with its overabundant xp distribution.
 

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