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Gamespy's 2006 highs and lows

suibhne

Erudite
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
1,951
Location
Chicago
As per its regrettable yearly habit, <a href="http://gamespy.com">GameSpy</a> has posted its <a href="http://goty.gamespy.com/2006/pc/index.html">2006 Game of the Year lineup for PC</a>. Apologies in advance for the length of this newspost, but 2006's GOTY account features <i>delectable</i> surprises for RPG aficionados:


* Neverwinter Nights 2 ranks <a href="http://goty.gamespy.com/2006/pc/index7.html">#5 on GameSpy's GOTY listing</a> with this exciting billing:
<blockquote>In a brilliant move (and one that deviates greatly from its predecessor), Neverwinter Nights 2 gives you full control of every character in your party in combat, granting the game's battles all the strategic richness such would entail. Though the game does a decent job of calling the shots for you if you don't desire this level of control, we suspect that very few people would balk at the chance to control the actions of a full party of powerful adventurers.</blockquote> So NWN2 is "brilliant" for doing exactly the same thing as every one of the Infinity Engine games from years ago, never mind all of <i>their</i> RPG predecessors? And I'm not sure which alternate universe features quality companion AI in NWN2, but I know it ain't <i>mine</i>.

Khelgar Ironfist also beats out Patrick Stewart and Boromir for <a href="http://goty.gamespy.com/2006/pc/index20.html">Best Acto^H^H^H^H^HCharacter of 2006</a>.


* Oblivion pulls <a href="http://goty.gamespy.com/2006/pc/index10.html">#2 on the list</a> and further bags <a href="http://goty.gamespy.com/2006/pc/index13.html">PC RPG of the Year</a>: <blockquote>Rather than rely on the common experience-point model, Oblivion uses a unique skill-based system that works excellently in the context of the game. Character classes have been reduced to a number of attribute and skill specializations, and even those become less and less constraining as you progress through the game. In very real terms, you can become the sort of character you want to be by using the skills that are important to you. You're only as bound to your early decisions as you choose to be. Many games purport to give you freedom, but Oblivion makes good on this promise in very real ways. This is why we have decided that it is the premier RPG of 2006, and it may be a good long while before such a superlative RPG comes along again.</blockquote>And yes, it's important to absorb <i>all</i> of that hyperbolic praise in order to fully understand the context of the next notable honor...


* In a move surprising for its (apparently) unself-conscious hypocrisy, GameSpy <i>then</i> turns around and declares Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul to be <a href="http://goty.gamespy.com/2006/pc/index15.html">2006 Mod of the Year</a>, for fixing the multifarious problems with Oblivion.

I really can't make this stuff up. See for yourself: <blockquote>[In standard Oblivion,] A level 2 player would encounter weaker creatures even in story-based dungeons, while one who had hit level 15 would begin to encounter even low-level bandits wearing glass armor and wielding powerful swords. The idea behind this was to make sure that no place in the world would ever be off-limits to the player and that the player would never run out of challenges. In practice it ended up discouraging leveling and created level 2 Arena champions. ...Playing Oblivion before and after installing OOO is a night-and-day experience. Suddenly there's a feeling of progression in the game. Defeating vampires and demons become much tougher, but at the same time, much more satisfying. The feeling of being at first afraid of highwaymen and then chewing them up for breakfast once you've leveled past them never gets old. Even better, Oscuro continues to update and enhance the mod.</blockquote> So, to recap: Oblivion is RPG of the Year and #2 on the list of best PC games of 2006, but it lacks "a feeling of progression", "satisfying" victories, and apparently even logic - all of which OOO introduces, thereby winning Mod of the Year.

Oh, and for the record - <i>technically speaking</i>, you can become Arena Champion, widely respected throughout Cyrodiil for your awesome fighting prowess, at <i>level 1</i>.


* In a move not at all surprising, Gothic 3 gets dishonorable mention as <a href="http://goty.gamespy.com/2006/pc/index23.html">Biggest Disappointment of 2006</a>. GameSpy actually places the game between "E.T. for the 2600 and Superman for the N64", both infamously awful games - <i>historic</i> human nadirs to the same degree that, say, Fallout represents the light of all human art and civilization.

Let's spend a few moments with GameSpy's expert commentary.<blockquote>Our "North American" box version included such gems as vicious memory leaks, crashes to desktop, a lockup that froze the whole computer, along with landscape bugs, movement bugs, collision bugs, and (our favorite) one that kept our mouse from being recognized in combat.</blockquote>The basic complaint is on target; Gothic 3 should have been more stable and more compatible out of the box, even in North America. (Of course, the same could be said for both Oblivion and Neverwinter Nights 2, which exhibited significant stability problems in their first few months of shelf-life and which <i>still</i> exhibit "movement bugs" and "collision bugs" - but that's ancient history! Bring on the accolades!) But this litany of bugs is pretty striking, since I can't even find some of them listed at JoWood's forums. A pity that GameSpy, passing judgment on this game's stability for a potential audience of hundreds of thousands of readers, is making broad claims about the game's stability on <i>all</i> machines without apparently having tested it on a range of hardware. I guess that's what it means to be a profeshunal.

GameSpy continues:<blockquote>Even if all of the bugs were magically fixed tomorrow, what remains is still a game chock full of good ideas and bad execution. The game has an expansive world filled with an excellent quest and character development system that really helps players feel like they're impacting the world. It's also got a pretty generic fantasy storyline, terrible voiceovers, lousy art design, a bad interface, and a combat system that relies as much on prayer and random chance as player input.</blockquote> I can respect criticisms of the combat system; it's not nearly the "click 'n' pray" system they suggest, but to each his own. (I <i>can't</i> respect misuse of "impacting" and "got", but let's leave that aside.) What gets me here are the other criticisms: Oblivion's fantasy storyline is arguably much more "generic" than Gothic 3's (and is executed with no impact whatsoever on the gameworld); Oblivion's voiceovers are unquestionably more "terrible" than Gothic 3's; Oblivion's XBox 360-based interface (for PC...) is obviously much more "bad" than Gothic 3's; and Gothic 3's art design, like that of its two predecessors, is among the best in the industry.


At least this feature has made me eager to leave 2006 far, far behind.
 

doctor_kaz

Scholar
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
517
Location
Ohio, USA
I can't figure out who still actually read's gamespy's drivel or subscribes to it. The site seems to be run almost entirely by retard fanboys.

And in the meantime, Oblivion has been nominated at Gamespot for "best story" of 2006. What in the holy hell is wrong with these people?
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,924
"it's not nearly the "click 'n' pray" system they suggest"

Ye,s it is. It's exactly that. I don't mind G3's combat; but it is exactly that. 'Click and pray' is EXACTLY the right way to describe the combat (sans spells most likely).
 

Gambler

Augur
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
767
GameSpy, IGN and Gamespot are all total rubbish. Gaming websites start to suck once they exceed certain size of audience.
 

suibhne

Erudite
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
1,951
Location
Chicago
Volourn said:
"it's not nearly the "click 'n' pray" system they suggest"

Ye,s it is. It's exactly that. I don't mind G3's combat; but it is exactly that. 'Click and pray' is EXACTLY the right way to describe the combat (sans spells most likely).

Take some time to actually practice the moves, and you'll find it's not hard to block enemy attacks; the important thing is to go into combats with caution, using your right mouse button before anything else. I'm not saying I like the combat system, but it's actually much easier to fight tougher enemies like Skeletons than it was in Gothic 2. The key is to not button-mash; it all comes together pretty easily if you're slow and patient rather than overly aggressive.

It's still a mess when fighting more than one enemy at a time, tho.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,924
When I try to block (with shield since my character is weaspon + shield style); all it does is cause the enemy to smash me to bits as they continue to damage me and one hit (shield or not) means I can likely (unless I'm lucky hence pray) to get a swing to take back the 'luck' momentum. The only situation I find parrying useful is versus missle wepaons.

It says a lot when I find no difference really between fighting a wolf at level 4 or at level 16. Or worse, a wolf or boar or one of those super boar like creatures I can't remember the actual name for. Of course, the differences between an animal and human has been beaten to death but humans 9and orcs) are very easy 1 on 1 as in you preetty much cna't die. Not multiples is the real fun.

Like I said, I like the combat; but 'click and pray' is a fitting description for it, imo.


P.S. I never fough skeles in G2 as I never got that far. Heck, i haven't yet fought them in G3 though I'm sure I will soon in Gotha...
 

Brother None

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Messages
5,673
Meh, Gothic combat has always been shitty, so I wouldn't exactly label it a controversial point.

Equally, TES combat has ALSO always been shitty consistently through the series. I know, some people really enjoyed Arena's combat. I sure as hell didn't.

Also, something not shown in the awards ceremony that the guys at RPGWatch mentioned; Oblivion was actually nominated for best Story of the Year.

...

Heh.
 

OccupatedVoid

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
1,846
Location
East Texas
suibhne said:
Khelgar Ironfist also beats out Patrick Stewart and Boromir for <a href="http://goty.gamespy.com/2006/pc/index20.html">Best Acto^H^H^H^H^HCharacter of 2006</a>.
Everybody loves short people these days, I guess. ;)
 

FrancoTAU

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
2,507
Location
Brooklyn, NY
"maybe even a simplification of the horrific chore of installing games"

A quote from the PC Editor... what the fuck? It's not exactly the days of editing your config.sys anymore.

The list of best games is actually not that bad. They do have an adventure game, a 4X game, and an obscure RPG/Strategy game from the eastern bloc. If you removed Oblivion from the list, I think most here would be happy with it.
 

bylam

Funcom
Developer
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
707
WTF disappointment? Did they even play the previous Gothic games which had *exactly* the same flaws? How could they be disappointed by a game series that is notorious for bugs for having *shock* lots of bugs?
Dopey bastards.
 

Elwro

Arcane
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Messages
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Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
Well, surprisingly, Space Rangers 2 got some appreciation.

And as for G3 combat, the problem is that you're fighting more than one opponent in almost every fight. Sure, blocking and generally thinking during combat is fun, but only when you're fighting a single opponent, which in my experience happens almost exclusively in the arenas.

The game's still great. BTW, just got to Nordmar and just got my ass kicked.
 
Joined
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Check out my massive package.
Quite honestly, Gothic 3's story really is "that bad."

Here's a summary.

ZOMG SPOILARS!!


At the end of Gothic 2, you get on a boat to the mainland. When you arrive, you learn that the Orcs have won the war on the mainland, and that most of your country's cities have been enslaved by the Orcs. Additionally, Xardas, that Necromancer dude who resurrects you at the beginning of Gothic 2, is in cahoots with the Orcs for some reason. So, your character decides to go out and find Xardas and be like "hey dude sup?"

Main quest 1: Find Xardas!

Ask around and you learn Xardas is in the country north of your own, ie, the game's ice level. Apparently you're supposed to be really high level before going in there since all the monsters are also high level, but honestly it doesn't matter if you either run past everything or kite everything with a (cross)bow. Anyway, Xardas's tower is way in the east of this place, and you have to work through alot of monsters to get to it. So you finally get to his tower, expecting some explanation of why the fuck he allied with the Orcs, or where the hell he's been, or why he's gone blind, or anything, and instead, you get four lines of dialog in which Xardas says he's using the Orcs to find these five artifacts. Oh yeah, and you need to get those five artifacts. Or else. Else what? Who knows.

Main quest 2: Get the five artifacts of Adanos!

Yeah. So you go on a collection hunt, which is basically getting high rep in a certain five cities, which entails doing ten-twelve cookie-cutter quests for each city. And when you get all five, you choose which faction gets to win: Innos (good/rebels), some neutral thing (druids), or Beliar (evil/desert people/orcs). And that's it, good game kthx buy Gothic 4 plx.


ZOMG NO MOAR SPOILARS!!
 

elander_

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,015
It's nice to see the Oblivion mod OOO being credited. Without knowing Gamespy is actualy recognizing the superior gameplay value of the previous episodes because OOO did nothing else than adjust leveling the way it was done in Daggerfall with some ideas of his own. Besides he organized bandit camps and other areas and gave those places a purpose and a role in the world. What he could not fix is the uterly boring linear quests with pretensions to be epic novels.
 

Rat Keeng

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
869
Article said:
Rare is a game that embarks on such an ambitious path and succeeds so remarkably at delivering everything it's promised.

I don't get it, I just don't get it. What possesses people to write something like this?
 

Texas Red

Whiner
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
7,044
Rat Keeng said:
Article said:
Rare is a game that embarks on such an ambitious path and succeeds so remarkably at delivering everything it's promised.

I don't get it, I just don't get it. What possesses people to write something like this?

A big bribe from Pete "Full-of-Shit" Hynes in form of advertisements. Or perhaps it was even a straight deal, who knows. These "awards" on Gamespot and Gamespy are clear indications.
 

Dogar

Novice
Joined
Feb 5, 2006
Messages
48
I thought he was good. His voice acting was superb, and I couldn't help but like his cheerfull and good-natured take on beating the stuffing out of people.
 

denizsi

Arcane
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Messages
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bosphorus
How retarded they have become through out the years. No wonder the name is Gamespy or "Apes Gym"
 

Jim Kata

Arbiter
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Messages
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Location
Nonsexual dungeon
Aside from the oblivion ridiculousness, it sounds pretty reasonable, if poorly written and incoherent/contradictory at every turn.

Gothic 3 was unplayable out of the box, so it should not be surprising it's getting panned by reviewers. The only thing that surprises me is that people here support it so much, in spite a complete lack of ability on their parts to articulate what's good about it either as an RPG or as a game....
 

Jim Kata

Arbiter
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Messages
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Nonsexual dungeon
Elwro said:
Didn't you read VD's review?

I read it, and I completely fail to see how that review makes a good game, or makes an rpg at all.

It boils down to being extremely formulaic and yet illogical in many ways, very actiony combat, idiotic character stats system, tons of bugs that only get fixed months after release. Basically exactly like the first two gothics, which sucked. The only 'good' in that review comes down to gritty setting and good animations, and you know what? Who fucking cares?
 

Elwro

Arcane
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Messages
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Location
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Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
Jim Kata said:
I read it, and I completely fail to see how that review makes a good game, or makes an rpg at all.
The real depth is in choices and multiple ways to get things done, generously offered by Piranha Bytes. Nothing is forced on you, nothing is mandatory - NOTHING AT ALL - so everything is in your hands and up to you.
(...)
1.Gothic 3 offers you to take sides in several active conflicts.
(...)
2.These conflicts can easily change the entire playing field. You can liberate all towns from the orcs (and one from formerly human, currently undead guardians) and repopulate them with humans, or you can wipe out all the rebels, destroying all hope.
(...)
3.Gothic 3's quests are more dynamic, allowing you to double-cross easily. In Oblivion, I was often asked not to tell something to other people, but I couldn't do it anyway, since a dialogue option wasn't provided. In Gothic 3, such options are plentiful – in fact, every bit of information that could be beneficial to several parties is immediately turned into 2-3 quests, allowing you to decide what to do with it.

The rebels asked me to find a local resistance guy in a nearby town. When I found the hidden rebel, I went to a mercenary leader and to the orc commander in that town, and was able to tell both of them about the rebel.

A hashashin merchant sells artefacts from far-away lands in an orc-controlled town. I found his brother in a cave nearby digging for artefacts. A quest to confront the merchant was added. I talked to the merchant who paid me to keep my mouth shut. A quest NOT to keep my mouth shut was added immediately. I talked to the orc commander and told him that the there are artefacts in that cave.

(...)
6. Gothic 3 offers you a huge truly living and breathing, very atmospheric world that actually looks like a recently conquered world with ruined towns, crumbling fortresses, burning capital, and crucified paladins and rebels. People go about their daily chores, cutting wood, working fields, hammering anvils, cooking in large pots, mining ore, sitting near fire, cooking meat, and even smoking weed, effortlessly creating an atmosphere the overhyped RAI had failed to.
Missed these parts?

Goddamit, I think I start to know what Volourn felt when he was defending NWN1 and yelling "all facts were already given!"
 

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