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Gloomhaven - roguelike dungeon-crawling adaptation of the board game

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by LESS T_T, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Oh, don't get me wrong, if you have the money and friends get the tabletop version too.
     
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  2. dacencora Augur

    dacencora
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    I didn’t much care for FG2. It’s possible that the other campaigns/expansions are better but the base game is boring as hell. The first game had much better unit variety and flavor, not to mention, more than one General at launch. I feel that they wasted so much effort and time on the lackluster story, when they could have taken the pretty decent engine and made interesting fights and scenarios.
     
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  3. Red Hexapus Learned

    Red Hexapus
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    Having completed 1.8 campaigns (one full, one almost full) I'm going to disagree with that statement. The board game is great from the tactical point of view, especially with 3-4 players. However I need to say that I think this game should have been a computer game from the start, because of a lot of tedious stuff that takes a lot of time and can be cut down by the computer (setup + cleanup of scenarios, enemy AI, enemy and character HP and attack calculations, adding new enemies during the game etc.). Not even talking about apps that you need to keep track of the state of the game (GH Campaign Tracker + GH Helper).

    This reminds me of another board game that greatly benefitted from the transition to a computer format. "Civilization: Through the Ages", I would never play it again it takes too fucking long to take care of all the tedious stuff, especially with 4 players. Digital version cuts down on the time by at least 2 hours by shifting these tedious cleanup and calculation on the computer.

    So what I would like to say I guess is: go for the digital version and dig your teeth into the meat of the game, omitting the less tasty parts.
     
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  4. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    Sure, I played my share of Arkham Horror. It's p. fun to play solo but nothing can beat a 4-man team, drinking, smoking stogies and narrating dramatically the slow train crash most games inevitably degenerate into.
     
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  5. v1rus Arcane

    v1rus
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    I've been wanting to give Arkham Horror a try for a long, long while. But its quite messy, with all those different versions (I really cant differ Arkham Horror from Mansions of Madness or Eldritch Horror, its all a yuge Lovecraftian blob to me) and most importantly, FFGs extremely predatory DLC shit, it feels like a true pain in the ass to get going, no matter how awesome it sounds.

    When it comes to Gloomhaven, its pricey as all fuck, but thats it. No missable promos, no thousand litttle expansions. You get the big box, and almost everything. You can buy the single expansion, download the free solo scenarios, and all done.

    That all aside, as I've previously mentioned - I find the goal design to be one of the smartest design choices in the game. I've actually been playing big box version for only a couple of sessions, so I cant say much, but we beat every single JotL scenario, on +2 (very hard), and still goal design is bri-lli-ant.

    Basically, theres a deck of goal cards, that gets shuffled between every scenario. Before beginning the scenario, you shuffle the deck of cards, and deal two goals to each player, and every player chooses one to keep other to discard. The goals must (and really should) be kept secret - if you complete the goal (never fall past half hp, end the scenario with only a single hp, have the most treasure, etc.), and win the scenario, you get a perk.

    I cant begin to describe how much this changes the game. Everyone is going to jeopardize the mission so he can get his goddamn perk, everyone. And if the mission is failed, you dont get a perk even if you completed the goal. The kind of cognitive dissonance it creates, is amazing. I once spent 20 minutes throwing a honest to god tantrum on my teammate (and dear friend) for compromising the mission so he would complete his goddamn battle goal, only to realize that I was doing the exact same thing. And, honest to god, I wasnt even realizing what I was doing. My goal just had to be completed. The other time, another party member also comprised the mission to do his stupid battle goal - except he didnt realize, until half the mission that he had already unlocked all his perks. He knew that ofc, we commented on it before the scenario started, but it just didnt click for him - because you have to do your goddamn goal.

    Its an amazing piece of design really, and truly changes how the game is perceived and played, adding a whole another layer behind party tactics optimization.

    Personal goals are just like battle goals, except they are only found in big box Gloomhaven, and span your characters entire career. As I said we just started the big box, so I cant comment on them much, but the basic design principle is same.
     
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  6. pakoito Arcane Patron

    pakoito
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    Hopefully the game can get a perf pass because it crawled even when it shouldn't.
     
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  7. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    Oh yeah, FFG gonna FFG. The important thing to know about AH is "get the 2nd edition!1!". Throw in a few expansions if you can get them for a reasonable price but the base game is more than good enough. You can only get it on BGG or eBay nowadays coz FFG has a 3rd edition out now but it's shit - streamlined, dumbified, a decline. Arkham Horror is supposed to be baroque, atmospheric, complex, wonderfully bloated, just like the Lovecraft mythos itself. People who can't deal with it should stay away.
     
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  8. Red Hexapus Learned

    Red Hexapus
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    The best Arkham Horror nowadays is the Living Card Game. It is pricey as fuck and the original 3-scenario campaign (The Night of the Zealot) doesn't leave a very good impression, but it's only incline with the other campaigns. The Path to Carcosa is awesome, highly recommend to try it (via OCTGN or TTS). Thinking about it, it would have been great if they made a digital version, instead of the Mother's Embrace disappointment.
     
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  9. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    Yeah I value my hard earned money too much to get into any CCG or LCG ever. But I could check some mods for TTS, true. Hopefully playing a card game in TTS is a bit more practical than AH itself.

    Also absolutely, they should've made a digital AH long ago, instead of aggressively policing and taking down TTS mods.
     
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  10. Whisper Arcane Vatnik

    Whisper
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    Can someone share impressions about combat/exploration in early access?

    Also what are two modes, exactly? One is being "Guildmaster"?
     
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  11. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    There is no exploration per se, all the battles take place in a self-contained map. The combat is great, pure incline, the only thing that bothers me is the RNG when it comes to damage, but you'll get over it. Guildmaster is just another campaign. The difference is that the missions are different and the maps for these missions are randomly generated (the missions and their objectives are static) and it has less of a narrative. At least that's what I think, if someone else knows any other differences, please share them.
     
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  12. Red Hexapus Learned

    Red Hexapus
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    The system is a carbon copy of the board game. There is no exploration, unless you consider road and city event cards before missions as such. Combat is card-based, where you pick two cards and perform the actions printed of them. You start losing the cards during each scenario, and if you lose them all you're out. That's about that.

    The main mode should be the Campaign. Guildmaster is like a quasi-campaign, without the character personal goals, world achievements and stuff. Gameplay is the same, it is just organized differently.

    Here's the super-quick introduction to the board game, video game is the same (mostly).
     
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  13. Infinitron I post news Patron

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    RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
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  14. LESS T_T Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    LESS T_T
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    Codex 2014
    Out now.

     
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  15. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/gloomhaven-pc-review

     
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  16. JackOfOwls Prophet

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    I really don't like deck-buiding-based games - not that I've had a lot of experience with them - so while I was initially intrigued by this game, that's a deal-breaker for me.
     
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  17. Arbaces Literate

    Arbaces
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    I wouldn't call Gloomhaven a deck building game in the same way as something like Hand of Fate or Slay the Spire because you don't draw random hands. The card pools are very small, and only around ten cards, varying by class, get taken into each mission. You select your "hand" of available actions as the last step before starting combat. When you use the actions they become unavailable until you rest, at which point one goes away for the rest of the fight and the others come back. Items work similarly, but they all refresh when you rest unless they go away when used. It is more of a resource management game than a deck builder.

    Okay I might have fed you one little white-lie: there is a deck you modify and randomly pull from, but it's only for random damage because rolling dice hurts eurogamers' dainty wrists.
     
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  18. Red Hexapus Learned

    Red Hexapus
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    My experience is based on the physical game, but but as mentioned by Arbaces it is not a deck builder. You select cards from the deck of the character before each mission and you try not to run out of them before it ends.

    What's more I would say it is not a single player game, and two-player gameplay has some issues mostly with the higher difficulty of some retirement quest. The game shines at 3 and 4 player, when you have to communicate with the other players to defeat the enemies using your combined powers.
     
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  19. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

    Grunker
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    This is a great board game, but as others are saying, it's even better on PC. Feels like it was meant to be a video game from the start. So don't listen to the people telling you to buy the cardboard version. Buy Gloomhaven Digital and spend your cardboard money on something else. Not because it's a bad board game at all - it's fucking fantastic - it's just an even better video game.
     
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  20. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    The problem is having friends to play the tabletop version with. You can comfortably play the digital version as a party of four alone. It's sad when you think about that statement too much, but hey, it works.
     
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  21. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Why do all the playable characters look so weird. Like are there no humies hobbits and the like?
     
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  22. lecrop Educated

    lecrop
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    Hobbits are not weird?
     
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  23. holla_cabezas_de_mierda Arcane

    holla_cabezas_de_mierda
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    the creator of the game is sorry about having racist orcs included in the game bTW..they won't be in Frosthaven I guess, he hir
    I never understand people who think cards replacing dice is somehow better when they are used as a way to generate a random number. Using a card is just a way to get a much less random number than using actual dice.

    If the goal is to generate a random number, then dice are superior to cards always, and I don't see how it could be any other way...some people (especially certain Euro Gamers it seems like maybe) don't understand RNG and simply have the reaction that any RNG with dice is 'bad' and not 'strategic' and means you are just relying on 'luck' or something.

    These idiots make me rage and also are a cause of decline IMO, but I guess this has been talked about other places before...anyway the game looks nice, I can't decide if I would like it or not yet...
     
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  24. pakoito Arcane Patron

    pakoito
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    The point is that over the levels your rolling deck is tweaked according to your class. Thus, melee hitters end up with a bunch of +2/+3 or +1 Armor 2, while support classes get +1 DoT or +1 Heal cards. You can also permanently remove negative cards. So overall you can make your deck go from averaging +0 to averaging +2 or so. My high level Hatchett would always hit even if it was for 1 damage, for example, which was great for AoE abilities and debuffs.

    If these were dice instead of cards the game would sell for $300, like Too Many Bones does.
     
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  25. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Not too much compared to whatever menagerie this game has.
     
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