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Gloomwood - Thief-ish stealth horror game from New Blood Interactive - Early Access on August 16th

SharkClub

Cipher
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
798
Strap Yourselves In

This one in particular should not be a surprise to anyone. I hope those decline ratings weren't directed at this.

This game is likely to have problems, one of which is advertising itself as Thief with guns when it's more like low poly Dishonored or victorian Deus Ex minus the RPG elements, but the absence of autism ghosting should be the very last thing on everyone's minds.

Thief was never designed with ghosting in mind and if you follow all the community-made autism rules it can take 8 hours of inching around some missions and exploiting AI to finish them without busting ghost or supreme ghost. Nobody should be saying "oh no I can't ghost Gloomwood that means it's decline", the vast majority of the people who go on about how cool ghosting is have never even bothered to try it.

It is tedium bordering on the insane and while it can be interesting to see what strategies get used to complete a mission without busting ghost it is not how 99.9% of people play Thief, Thief 2, Deus Ex, Dishonored, etc. and thus should not even be a consideration for the developers. If people want to come up with autism rules they can always make a handful of exceptions for parts that don't fit (which literally already exist for a bunch of Thief1&2 ghosting).

Lovely to hear Terri Brosius will be providing her voice for this game.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
It was never Thief to begin with, so it's not decline when the game gives you freedom how to play it.
Giving you the "freedom" to either shoot things with a shotgun or quit the game is not a great range of choices.
did the developer say "you are forced to shoot stuff"? He didn't. In fact he specifically says he's trying to avoid the situations where it's impossible to ghost.

A lot of gamers while playing a stealth game prefer to reload the last save instead of continuing after getting caught. Gloomwood gives you means to continue and the developer urges you to not feel guilty about it.
You're absolutely right and I cheerfully retract my earlier snarky post.
 

gerey

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
2,594
Problem with ghosting in games like Thief, and likely this one, is that it demands the player not interact with 90% of the game. I guess the dev screwed himself over a bit when the compared the game to Thief - but it does make sense if we look at Thief the way the original developers meant it to be played - while combat was certainly discouraged actually ambushing enemies (bonking the guards on the head, using holy water on the undead etc.) made completing objectives that much easier.

Some could argue that the blackjack largely trivialized a lot of the game, but you can't blame the player for optimally using the resources at their disposal.

I do hope, however, that Gloomwood will have mechanics in place that will inconvenience players that backstab every enemy they encounter, because far too many stealth games don't punish the player enough for going stealth + lethal, which is usually the approach that nets the least expense of resources and the one the AI has the most problems dealing with.
 

Curratum

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
3,800
Gloomwood isn't decline because of ghost
Problem with ghosting in games like Thief, and likely this one, is that it demands the player not interact with 90% of the game. I guess the dev screwed himself over a bit when the compared the game to Thief - but it does make sense if we look at Thief the way the original developers meant it to be played - while combat was certainly discouraged actually ambushing enemies (bonking the guards on the head, using holy water on the undead etc.) made completing objectives that much easier.

Some could argue that the blackjack largely trivialized a lot of the game, but you can't blame the player for optimally using the resources at their disposal.

I do hope, however, that Gloomwood will have mechanics in place that will inconvenience players that backstab every enemy they encounter, because far too many stealth games don't punish the player enough for going stealth + lethal, which is usually the approach that nets the least expense of resources and the one the AI has the most problems dealing with.

Gloomwood will have an OP horror / monster that was called "corpse duster" or something, that comes to eat the corpses you leave behind, then stalks you in the level, I think.
 

Child of Malkav

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
1,468
Location
Romania
Gloomwood isn't decline because of ghost
Problem with ghosting in games like Thief, and likely this one, is that it demands the player not interact with 90% of the game. I guess the dev screwed himself over a bit when the compared the game to Thief - but it does make sense if we look at Thief the way the original developers meant it to be played - while combat was certainly discouraged actually ambushing enemies (bonking the guards on the head, using holy water on the undead etc.) made completing objectives that much easier.

Some could argue that the blackjack largely trivialized a lot of the game, but you can't blame the player for optimally using the resources at their disposal.

I do hope, however, that Gloomwood will have mechanics in place that will inconvenience players that backstab every enemy they encounter, because far too many stealth games don't punish the player enough for going stealth + lethal, which is usually the approach that nets the least expense of resources and the one the AI has the most problems dealing with.

Gloomwood will have an OP horror / monster that was called "corpse duster" or something, that comes to eat the corpses you leave behind, then stalks you in the level, I think.
Yeah I remember the dev saying something like this a few years ago.
Here you go:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1150760/discussions/0/2288338831427962892/
"And yes, piles of corpses will encourage the corpse duster to appear and he's significantly tougher than a standard enemy."

And this:

https://twitter.com/tafferking451/status/1272526715915513856?lang=en
 

toughasnails

Learned
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Sep 20, 2021
Messages
433
The sort of situation that this game places you in and what you are facing against isn't really something where I would get out of my way to avoid killing enemies. But I also never much bothered to avoid taking down enemies in Thief's undead sections for example, it didn't make much sense in the context.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
Ghosting is kind of like speedrunning, where the player makes up their own rules because they like to see certain things happen on the screen, not because it has anything to do with the game.

In other words ... it is LARPing.
 

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
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Lusitânia
- has a linear level progression where you go from A to B while avoiding enemies;
- saving on save points
- grid-based inventory tetris;
- resource scarcity;
- dangerous enemies, high letality combat, optional stealth.

This is a bona fide survival horror, it has more in common with resident evil games.

So basically classic RE in 1st person with some inspiration from Thief in regards to setting and level design?
That actually sounds pretty cool.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
Joined
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Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
Ghosting is kind of like speedrunning, where the player makes up their own rules because they like to see certain things happen on the screen, not because it has anything to do with the game. In other words ... it is LARPing.
No, it's not. It's just RPing. Nothing LA about it.
Note this is not my definition, it's the Codex's. If you do anything in a game that the game doesn't "care about", you're LARPing. Since ghosting doesn't give you xp, it's LARPing.
 

Nifft Batuff

Cipher
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
2,271
The possibility of ghosting is a emergent property of the way the game is implemented. Even if it is not fun or extremely boring, if you can ghost then the game has a good level of depth and player agenda.
 

toughasnails

Learned
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
433
Even if it is not fun or extremely boring, if you can ghost then the game has a good level of depth and player agenda.
Well then the dev explicitly said

I’m trying to avoid any situations that are impossible to ghost/non-lethal, but it’s also not the main way I’m balancing the game for. So basically - you can go at it, but there’s no promises it’ll actually be that fun lol
 
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