Review Gothic 3 trashed at Rewired Mind - 2/10

[Bradylama]

If I were a man in his mid-thirties who didn't know how to pluralize and use proper grammar, I wouldn't be throwing around words like "retard" or "lack of a question mark."

Why did they even let you write?

 

[Stauff]

P.S. May be you can name us your big titles, eh?

Sure, heard of the Need For Speed series? How about System Shock? Oh and the new one that is coming up, System Shock 2.

System Shock 2, you say? That's awesome, man.

Being a software developer myself I think you should not touch rather nice guys at Irrational - they are really good devs, which by the way will never say such lame and overall empty statements. Besides next time invent something more useful - System Shock 2 is a living classic and new games from Irrational BioShock is nowhere near the completion.

Making a flame war is of course funny and kewl, but man of 30 what the fuck with your head - frontal lobotomy ? If you are as old as you say - you just can't make such gibberish.

 

[The_Nameless_Prick]

because you know what it's like. You must have some experience in that matter, or you would not know the mindset you would be in if it did happen to you, that is, ACCORDING to you. Because i cuss often, that automatically make me an ass-raped convict. That sounds like to me the punishment your father gave you for swearing when you were a kid was a good old ass-raping. I don't know for sure, but it was easy for me to come up with THAT conclusion.

I thought to myself, should I continue to feed the troll but then hey. you are amusing so what the heck.
In replying to your question although there is a lack of a question mark, I would have to say.

NO!

Very simple 2 letters word NO!

NO! I don't know what it is like.
NO! I don't have any experience in the matter
NO! My father did not sexually harass me when I was young. Otherwise I would be a very angry young man wouldn't I? Very much like yourself.

So since you DON"T KNOW for sure, then you should be glad that I just corrected your uncertainty. Now be on your way and find another subtle comeback before you post will be found under google keyword of "retard"

Well, i'm all done with this stupid flame war, thanks for the battle though :wink:

Anyway Gothic 3 is a great game, i think you should just wait for the latest patches to come out if you don't like the current state. If you have a prob with the devs thogh i think you answered your question by saying that they are a small team under a lot of pressure, and they are working to fix it. Oblivion had hundreds of devs and very large PR engine, thats why it was so succesful amongst all the fools bought the game (me being one of them) and why it was more stable than Gothic 3. Gothic 3 is a MUCH better game than Oblivion, imo and i think the latest patches are worth waiting for if you are disapointed with it's current state.

 

[Micmu]

It make you very weak using age
as an insult. Come back with a better one.

How about one of yours instead?

Yes and pray tell me when will you be graduating from elementary school? Next year?

Mr. Weakling

 

[Nutcracker]

If I were a man in his mid-thirties who didn't know how to pluralize and use proper grammar, I wouldn't be throwing around words like "retard" or "lack of a question mark."

Why did they even let you write?

English is his second language. Anyway i dont think he deserves some of the blatant attacks he's receiving, he does have a few valid points and it appears he also has the nous to back them up.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Not all laziness implies an extreme negative connotation.

I hate to disappoint you, but it kinda does.

In this case, I can safely bet that they do not have the time to optimize their code and properly test their software.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that, so you should have started with that instead of posting that rant about laziness.

When a product fail, who do you usually blame? The management!!!! As a customer, you tend to only see one thing. Why isn't the product not delivered to a proper standard? WHo is at fault? The developers for writing the software? or the Producer who supply and paid for the development cost.

Considering your claim to be a developer, you have a very limited understanding of things. Usually people who pay the bills are the ones in charge. They are the ones who decide whether to ship a game as is or give the developers an extra month or two. Need I explain further?

I'm sure that you would have done a much better job.

Yes I would.

Kinda hard to take your seriously after that.

In their position I would indicate the flaw in the design and if there is pressure from management, I would quit. Imagine with a small team and a person quit, how big of an impact that would have to the software? EXTREMELY BIG IMPACT? Why? not only would it cause other developers to reconsider their position, it would smack the publisher in the face about the integrity of the developing company.

Ah, to be young and naive again...

THen I apologize for my prior rudeness.

No apology is necessary. It's the Codex.

I brought it up to support my claims so that people do not think I am not qualified to make judgment.

I doubt that stating that you are a developer of big titles, including upcoming and highly anticipated System Shock 2, will help you supporting your *other* claims.

It is a normal tactic in a debate to backup your credentials before your opponent hit you back with the "how the f*ck do you know?"

Believe it or not, it's very easy to see who's knowledgeable in a certain field and who doesn't have a clue.

Usually you do not have to present a rebuttal to a fact. Fact is there to back up a claim or an argument. You should in this case rebuke the argument.

*sigh* Your fact was pointless and proved nothing, hence no need for a rebuttal. It's like stating that the Sun is yellow to support your arguments dealing with the latest theories on the development of the third world countries.

I take it that there has not been any heated intellectual discussion in this forum before.

Priceless.

 

[The_Nameless_Prick]

If I were a man in his mid-thirties who didn't know how to pluralize and use proper grammar, I wouldn't be throwing around words like "retard" or "lack of a question mark."

Why did they even let you write?

English is his second language. Anyway i dont think he deserves some of the blatant attacks he's receiving, he does have a few valid points and it appears he also has the nous to back them up.

Yeah and he's fighting off 5 or 6 people by himself. Not bad.

 

[elander_]

Anyone who compares Oblivion graphics engine with Gothic 3 graphics engine is a moron. Gothic 3 world is completely seamless and has a realistic terrain solution with a much more complex lod system that Oblivion simplistic terrain grid solution can't handle. Innovating takes risks.

Plus Oblivion is a piece of crap with their screwed up AI called RAI that is much worse than a scripted game engine. We were suposed to get better quests with RAI by freeing quest creaters from boring tasks but they were too lazy to play great rpgs like Fallout and instead just made boring quests style "go kill X be a good guy then come back".

For an rpg world Oblivion is not just lazy but it is also moronic. You can be guild head of all guilds at the same time and even control oposing guilds like the assassins guild or the thieves guild or be the leader of the mages guild with 1 int and being unable to cast a spell.

Anyone who thinks Oblivion is a reference needs a new brain.

 

[dabomberman]

P.S. May be you can name us your big titles, eh?

Sure, heard of the Need For Speed series? How about System Shock? Oh and the new one that is coming up, System Shock 2.

System Shock 2, you say? That's awesome, man.

Being a software developer myself I think you should not touch rather nice guys at Irrational - they are really good devs, which by the way will never say such lame and overall empty statements. Besides next time invent something more useful - System Shock 2 is a living classic and new games from Irrational BioShock is nowhere near the completion.

Being Really, really good devs have nothing to do with the ability to express yourself anonymously on a forum. I don't invent where I work and what titles I used to work on. I think I know MORE about the state of our development than you. You can try to retrace my conversation with another forum member to find out the approximate release date.

Making a flame war is of course funny and kewl, but man of 30 what the fuck with your head - frontal lobotomy ? If you are as old as you say - you just can't make such gibberish.

Really? I don't see some of your 30ish members have a problem pulling out such word as "moron" etc. Can't a 30 year old man have fun and stir up a small forum a bit? If you want some evidence of academic being a kid, check out the linux source code. There are more than 20 occurances of the f*ck word.

 

[dabomberman]

I hate to disappoint you, but it kinda does.

Not really.Like I explained earlier, when a person is under pressure, there tend to be a lack of quality in his work. That isn't entirely his fault however, but one cannot deny that in the view of the customer, that is pretty lazy. Anyway, there is no point arguing semantic. You have your view and I have mine.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that, so you should have started with that instead of posting that rant about laziness.

Well, laziness is a straight forward criticism that create an atmosphere where there is a big discussion

Considering your claim to be a developer, you have a very limited understanding of things. Usually people who pay the bills are the ones in charge. They are the ones who decide whether to ship a game as is or give the developers an extra month or two. Need I explain further?

Actually, you have a limited understanding of the game industry. This is how it USUALLY work. As a starting out company, an indie, you are under the control of the publisher for your first title, say in this case Gothic 1. However, if your first title has been a success, you should have enough money to bargain off some intellectual property for yourself. By your second title, you do not rely on a particular publisher to deliver your software. You have an option to choose, given your previous success, a publisher and negotiate a deal.
No publisher in their right mind would set a release date for you. They ALWAYS ask for you to RECOMMEND a date for your release. So either,the management of Pirahna had set unrealistic date, or they are just sloppy on their work. What the publisher do pressure on is the timing of the release date. If you say that you are going to release by christmas, the publisher WILL make you release by christmas. Remember, that goal is the goal that YOU set. Not the publisher.

Kinda hard to take your seriously after that.

I don't really care what you take me as. Like I said, given that situation. I would have done better. There are good developers and there are bad developers. Not all developers are the same and have the same skills.

Ah, to be young and naive again...

It has absolutely nothing to do with being Naive. Like I said, usually when you reached your third title, you should have a bargaining power with your publisher. Take Bioware for example, they have most of the control in their development of NWN1. Atari trust them in every way.

Believe it or not, it's very easy to see who's knowledgeable in a certain field and who doesn't have a clue.

lol Really now.

*sigh* Your fact was pointless and proved nothing, hence no need for a rebuttal. It's like stating that the Sun is yellow to support your arguments dealing with the latest theories on the development of the third world countries.

Exactly, if there is no need for rebuttal, then why bother discussing that fact. That fact is there to support the subsequent argument about Piranha performance with influence from their publisher. You see, you wasted time discussing something that is beside the point.

 

[Ladonna]

I don't know who the troll is (Was he the coffee bitch during system shock 2 or somethng?...), but after playing Gothic 3 for a week now, its brilliant.

At first, I was a little leery of the miserly way the friends took off with hardly a word, since then It has gotten better and better. If you have a decent system, and enjoyed the older Gothic games, this one is something you should have gotten yesterday.

However: Make sure you get the patch (Der) and use the tweaks seen around the internet. USE THEM.

Enjoy.

PS: Yes, I know that games should be in a better condition when they first come out than this one apparently was, but I am enjoying it too much to care really. Its in a decent condition now after patch 1.08, and its the best game I have played since Arcanum. No shit.

 

[dabomberman]

Anyone who compares Oblivion graphics engine with Gothic 3 graphics engine is a moron. Gothic 3 world is completely seamless and has a realistic terrain solution with a much more complex lod system that Oblivion simplistic terrain grid solution can't handle. Innovating takes risks.

So? Have you consider the audience? Do they really care? No
Secondly, having seamless terrain put weights on your game. It is a resource hog and that is probably, one of the core reason why this game take ages to load and crash so very often. Poor resource management.
Thirdly, if you are going to release a game that is $100 a pop, would you not rather release it to a large audience? Not many people in the world who wasted $100 on a game happens to also have 1.5GB of ram as a minimum. Only hardcore gamers do and that number is insignificantly small to even matter. This is the reason why game companies turn to the console because the platform is fixed and the console manufacture spend billions of dollars trying to put that console in every house hold.
Anyone who does not see the BIG picture is a moron.

Plus Oblivion is a piece of crap with their screwed up AI called RAI that is much worse than a scripted game engine. We were suposed to get better quests with RAI by freeing quest creaters from boring tasks but they were too lazy to play great rpgs like Fallout and instead just made boring quests style "go kill X be a good guy then come back".

I take you are being bias. Let me see the first few quests of GOthic 3. Oh yea, "go talk to blah blah" and "go kill a boar"; "go kill an orc".
RAI IS a scripted game engine. You see because of that, people can release their own MOD to the game. Oblivion release their own toolset so people can extend the story. Gothic 3 doesn't have that. It is as static as a statue. So try to see the BIG picture.

For an rpg world Oblivion is not just lazy but it is also moronic. You can be guild head of all guilds at the same time and even control oposing guilds like the assassins guild or the thieves guild or be the leader of the mages guild with 1 int and being unable to cast a spell.

Again, I applaud your ability to be subjective but then you are entitle to your opininon.

Anyone who thinks Oblivion is a reference needs a new brain.

LMFAO that's going a bit to far consider that game is a best seller. When you have a best seller, EVERYTHING is compared against it. Same with as books, cars, movies, etc. SO if you have a problem with society way to select a standard for comparison, talk to your politician

 

[dabomberman]

Well, i'm all done with this stupid flame war, thanks for the battle though :wink:

Anyway Gothic 3 is a great game, i think you should just wait for the latest patches to come out if you don't like the current state. If you have a prob with the devs thogh i think you answered your question by saying that they are a small team under a lot of pressure, and they are working to fix it. Oblivion had hundreds of devs and very large PR engine, thats why it was so succesful amongst all the fools bought the game (me being one of them) and why it was more stable than Gothic 3. Gothic 3 is a MUCH better game than Oblivion, imo and i think the latest patches are worth waiting for if you are disapointed with it's current state.

WOw this is much more a decent conversation.
I don't have the problem with the devs. I have the problem with the game quality. Saying that they are a small team under pressure is NOT an excuse. It is detrimental to the gaming industry and gives everyone the idea that it is common place to do so. If a car company release a car without breaks, they cannot say, um, sorry we are not as big as such and such so deal with it. NO! If you have a small team, hire more people, ask for bigger budget. If not, then don't bother releasing a game because all you are doing is giving the game industry a bad name.
You see, the problem here is that I NEED the latest patch to play the game. WHY? Why do they even BOTHER to sell me the game packed in the box when it is full of bugs.
I am sorry, but I am the quality control in the team, and I have to say, that I am upset to see such product released without the consideration for quality.

 

[Ladonna]

So? Have you consider the audience? Do they really care? No
Secondly, having seamless terrain put weights on your game. It is a resource hog and that is probably, one of the core reason why this game take ages to load and crash so very often. Poor resource management.
Thirdly, if you are going to release a game that is $100 a pop, would you not rather release it to a large audience? Not many people in the world who wasted $100 on a game happens to also have 1.5GB of ram as a minimum. Only hardcore gamers do and that number is insignificantly small to even matter. This is the reason why game companies turn to the console because the platform is fixed and the console manufacture spend billions of dollars trying to put that console in every house hold.

Fair enough. But so many devs are going this way, isn't it a bit stupid to level this at only ONE new game? Check the spechs needed by virtually all new games today.

As for your quality control; What game is it?

I agree with you regarding quality, however I believe you are living in fairy land. Publishers set deadlines, and gaming devs are forced to comply with Quarterly statements of said publishers. Out by Christmas or else, Beat the others to the post or else, etc etc...

LMFAO that's going a bit to far consider that game is a best seller. When you have a best seller, EVERYTHING is compared against it. Same with as books, cars, movies, etc. SO if you have a problem with society way to select a standard for comparison, talk to your politician

Please, don't be silly. Nobody knows how it sold. We know many boxes were shipped, but after seeing quite a few reviewers about facing on this game, it may well become known as 'the stinker' in another years time. If it has great sales.....

I suppose you believe Macdonalds is the crem de la creme of food because of its mass sales hmm?

 

[Chip]

Your being a little unreasonable. I get the whole priciple thing about how games should work nearly perfectly when they are released. But seeing as the majority of the bugs have been fixed, and it costs nothing to download the patch, giving Gothic 3 a 1/10 on principle seems unreasonable. I think I'd rather drive a beat-up Porsche (Gothic 3) rather then a immaculate, freshly waxed Honda Civic (Oblivion), especially if the porsche dealership offered to repair my car for free.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Is this like a Russian Game Developers conference?

Can't really comment since I haven't played a Melee character yet. I'm sure someone else will.

You have not? The first weapon is a sword. How is it possible that you never even used a sword in the entire game?

Coming from someone who apparently can't get passed 2 minutes without it crashing, how would you know it's not possible, eh?

Unoriginality is 'Good Vs Evil'', a la Oblivion. Gothic 3 attempts to cloud the issue. The orcs aren't necessarily the evil ones in this game. The storyline is original, if not the characters.

Granted that the storyline different from the same crap lately. Despite that, the game mechanics, game play is anything but revolutionary.

Hang on, you were talking about how unoriginal the story was. Now you're saying "Oh yeah, it IS different" (IE: Original)? Can you try figuring out what it is you mean exactly before you type next time?

Sure, heard of the Need For Speed series?

Ah, this would explain a lot.

I lack to see the correlation. Some how because I worked on a car racing game with shiny graphics that can run on a lower spec than Gothic 3, I know nothing of gameplay?

Yup. That's about it. Which NFS was it by the way? If you had anything to do with NFS:Underground, then you don't know shit about game-play.

When's System Shock 2 coming out, bomberman? And will it have the same "pay-to-play" approach as Need for Speed? That'll be TEH AWESOME.

It will come about by easter. We are currently undergoing rigorous, validation testing. I cannot reveal anymore as my job is on the line.

We are talking about the same System Shock 2, right? The one that was released in 1999?

I suggest you do a little research before posting on the Codex. You motherfucking cocksucking piece of dogshit :wink:

Ah, judging by this post, this forum is run by high school kids on drugs.

You should feel right at home.

I am amaze at the fact that you can LIVE with a buggy game. You are a customer and yet you accept a subpar product. If that was a car or a computer you would demand your money back. You see, this is the attitude that foster bad programming philosophy of "What the heck, just ship, they buy it, they complain and we fix it later"

If we can live with your buggy grammar, then I think some people here can live with a buggy game. It all depends on the enjoyment. See, some of us here are having quite a bit of fun with your buggy behaviour. It's a bit of a laugh. I'd bet there are some people who tried reading what you had to say though and just gave up. It all depends on where your level of enjoyment is. If you can get passed the pain and find the good stuff, bugs aren't a problem.

In their position I would indicate the flaw in the design and if there is pressure from management, I would quit. Imagine with a small team and a person quit, how big of an impact that would have to the software?

If you code anything like how you type, I think the team would be better off without you. As VD implied, you sound like an inexperienced Russian kid. I'd be really interested to know what game it is you're working on now. It's not S.T.A.L.K.E.R. is it?

 

[fizzelopeguss]

When's System Shock 2 coming out, bomberman? And will it have the same "pay-to-play" approach as Need for Speed? That'll be TEH AWESOME.

It will come about by easter. We are currently undergoing rigorous, validation testing. I cannot reveal anymore as my job is on the line.

We are talking about the same System Shock 2, right? The one that was released in 1999?

You just had to spoil it didn't you? you miserable old scrote. :wink:

 

[kris]

Oblivion release their own toolset so people can extend the story. Gothic 3 doesn't have that. It is as static as a statue. So try to see the BIG picture.

For the vast majority of players a toolset have no use whatsoever.

 

[Ratty]

You see because of that, people can release their own MOD to the game. Oblivion release their own toolset so people can extend the story.

Except I expect to get a game for my $50, not tools to develop one.

Except the toolset is accessible only to a small portion of the audience - i.e. people who purchased the PC version.

Except the Oblivion toolset isn't all that powerful and is in fact inferior to the Morrowind one.

Except most competent modders left the scene once they saw what a piece of shit the game was, and their place was taken by retards who devote their time and dubious skill to putting lightsabers and Halo weapons in the game.

Except those few competent modders who remain are too busy fixing Bethesda's idiocy (level scaling, for example) to be working on anything new.

Gothic 3 doesn't have that. It is as static as a statue. So try to see the BIG picture.

So there's no way to have Lara Croft and Master Chief in Gothic III? Oh my God, you're right, that game definitely sucks ass compared to Oblivion.

Again, I applaud your ability to be subjective but then you are entitle to your opininon.

If you think ability to become the head of the Mages' Guild with a character who can't cast a single spell is anything but terrible design, then you are a moron. By objective standards.

Really, while you may have worked on some games, you should refrain from discussing Oblivion, since it's pretty obvious you have no clue about CRPG design. Or, for that matter, racing game design, if quality of recent NFS releases is any indication.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well, laziness is a straight forward criticism that create an atmosphere where there is a big discussion.

Laziness is something you pulled out of your ass to *create* a big discussion.

Actually, you have a limited understanding of the game industry. This is how it USUALLY work. As a starting out company, an indie, you are under the control of the publisher for your first title, say in this case Gothic 1.

You do know what indie means, don't you?

However, if your first title has been a success, you should have enough money to bargain off some intellectual property for yourself.

At this point I have no choice but to call you stupid. Here are some simple facts: a) publisher always gets the property rights, b) IPs are expensive. Fallout wasn't a blockbuster, but a 3-game license was sold for 1.1 mil, c) developers simply don't make enough money to be independent as the "financing" costs are too high.

By your second title, you do not rely on a particular publisher to deliver your software. You have an option to choose, given your previous success, a publisher and negotiate a deal.

Which is why BG3 - a highly anticipated title - is dead.

No publisher in their right mind would set a release date for you.

Right. Which is why Lucas Arts forced KOTOR 2, a game without the ending, basically, out several months before the schedule to hit the xmas sales period.

It has absolutely nothing to do with being Naive. Like I said, usually when you reached your third title, you should have a bargaining power with your publisher. Take Bioware for example, they have most of the control in their development of NWN1. Atari trust them in every way.

Clue: what role did Interplay play in the NWN development?

Anyway, it's been fun for awhile, but you are way too clueless and/or stupid to continue, and your lies about developing System Shock 2 - a game that's been released 7 years ago - are no longer amusing.

All in favor of the dumbfuck title say aye.

 

[Claw]

I doubt an AMD FX60 with 2 GB of RAM on a GF7800GTX is a shitty computer

Actually, it very possibly is. 2 Gigs of RAM and a GF7800 could still be of miserable quality, not to mention the mainboard.

I don't question your ability to think, neither should you question my credential.

The difference is that your credentials are questionable. As is your ability to think.

your opinion is a typical reply I would expect from a person with a single digit IQ.

Actually, the typical reply from a person with a single digit IQ would be no reply due to the lacking ability to read or write or even to learn any human language.
On the positive side, that means you do at least have a double digit IQ, even though your writing skills are far from perfect!

No, sometimes in life you can form a logical conclusion without having to experience it. For example: If you get shot by a gun in the head, you will die. There is no need to experience that to know that.

You can't be sure. C'mon, it can't hurt to try.

 

[Data4]

All in favor of the dumbfuck title say aye.

Aye. This thread has become amazing. Can we keep him?

-D4

 

[elander_]

Anyone who does not see the BIG picture is a moron.

The argument is that you don't understand how the Gothic 3 graphics engine works. You contradict yourself by stating or assuming it worked the same way as the Oblivion engine which shows you didn't made your homework. Lazy.

Fact: there isn't the the BIG picture. The BIG picture is just a BIG empty word meaning the BIG bucks or the BIG life or the BIG sellings. Point is Gothic 3 is trying to innovate in graphics presentation and rpg design. Not everyone is wrong or lazy just because they are not blind with the BIG picture or obcessed with selling as much games as they can no mater what.

RAI IS a scripted game engine.

For a so called game reviewer you don't even bother to read what Bethesda announced about RAI. You're lazy for not even read what they said in to the public.

You see because of that, people can release their own MOD to the game. Oblivion release their own toolset so people can extend the story. Gothic 3 doesn't have that. It is as static as a statue. So try to see the BIG picture.

Another useless argument. I never mentioned mods and a game is not a toolkit.

Again, I applaud your ability to be subjective but then you are entitle to your opininon.

Everyone is biased and you aren't special. Besides you are dodging the argument.

In terms of quality and when comparing Oblivion to finished games it is disfunctional and fails on many points the game has advertised. Reviewers are biased towards graphics, linearity, low gameplay complexity and other big selling factors and are very tolerant with games with praticaly zero gameplay and PR bulshit.

LMFAO that's going a bit to far consider that game is a best seller. When you have a best seller, EVERYTHING is compared against it. Same with as books, cars, movies, etc. SO if you have a problem with society way to select a standard for comparison, talk to your politician

This is too retarded to even comment. The fact that most reviewers gave G3 an average score of 8 should have at least made you consider you are being an imbecile. Nobody reviews games on a pure marketing perspective alone. And even in that perspective G3 is selling very well despite being incomplete which was also the case with Oblivion and RAI.

 

[kingcomrade]

This thread should be stickied. And yes, now, I have something worth voting for. Can someone show me how to punch the hole for "aye" without being intimidated by the Republicons?

 

[Littlefizz]

Congratulations, you made me stop lurking for a second just to say...

All in favor of the dumbfuck title say aye.

Aye. Too many stupid things to even try to reply.

This should definitely be added to the monkey project thread

 

[ixg]

I say aye.