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Gothic II: NotR - requesting build advice

Discussion in 'Piranha Bytes' started by Revenant, Jan 8, 2012.

  1. Revenant Guest

    Revenant
    I am thinking about replaying Gothic II with Night of the Raven add-on. This time I plan to go as a melee character with intent of exploring every possible bit of the game world and doing all possible quests. To make things easier, I want to do a little powergaming and achieve the following:

    • by the end of the game, I would like to max out strength and two handed fighting; in other words, I don't want to spend more LPs than necessary on strength while
    • at the same tame, I want to be able to use the Dragon Slicer sword as soon as possible, as in chapter 1 or at least in chapter 2, which should require training strength quite a lot (I would rather not use strength raising items like rings and belts).
    • I also want to have enough LP remaining to learn all body-part collecting skills to be able to collect most of the stuff from slain critters.
    Now, I'm not quite sure these goals aren't mutually exclusive so I'm asking your opinion whether they all are obtainable. On the subject of strength, I am willing to estimate at least some strength boosting items found in the game:
    • +1 strength for 25 apples eaten;
    • +1 strength for Thekla's stew;
    • +10 strength for praying at shrines;
    • +22 strength from all the stone tablets;
    • +30 strength (at least) from strength potions, I'm not sure how many potions you can get though;
    • +15 strength for Embarla Firgasto potion at the end of the game.
    I'm quite sure I missed at least some strength boosters, however, this totals to some 80 points which means that I should train my strength up to 120 or so WHICH WILL COST A FUCKING SHITLOAD OF LEARNING POINTS. I even might be willing to spend that much on the condition that I will have enough LPs left to max out two handed combat and learn all the auxiliary skills like skinning/lockpicking/alchemy.
    SO. To cut the long talk short, I mainly would like to have answers to these questions:
    1. Up to what number should I train my strength before starting to consume strength boosters?
    2. How much of all the strength boosting items can be found in the early game? A crude estimate on this will suffice.
    3. Mercenary vs. Paladin: which is better suited for my outlined build?
    Share Thy wisdom, fellow Codexians.
     
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  2. Metro Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    Going to fall into the 'mutually exclusive' category. I don't believe it's possible to min/max properly while getting to use Dragon Slicer so early in the game. You'll have to use the consumables/praying earlier than you hit the steep LP for strength curve (4-5 points per 1 stat). However, it's been several months since I last played G2 and studied the numbers, but to give answers insofar as what I recall:

    1. I don't know the exact number but you should definitely stop when you need to use 5 LP to get 1 point of strength. A trick you can use (that I think still works) is to note where the cutoffs are -- that is, where the cost escalates per stat. I think it's 30/60/90/120. If you train a batch of 5 strength where you're only 1 away from those cutoffs then you'll be able to get all 5 points in that batch at the old/current LP cost. That is, let's say you're one point below the cutoff where it shifts from 1 to 2. If you just train 1 to hit the cutoff then you'll have to spend 1 point and then 8 for the next 4. However, if you train in a batch of 5 then you'll only pay 5 saving 4 LP. But, again, definitely stop training and start using boosters when you get to the 5:1 ratio.

    2. Pretty much all of the ogre root for the potions. I'm almost positive there are none in either Jarkendar or the Colony. A couple of the tablets. Obviously the stew (think you can get three portions of it). Apples should be no problem, either.

    3. Mercenary.... I think. Should allow you access to a couple more stews. Despite the fact that my last playthrough was Paladin I don't really recall any specific advantages to a strength based character. There might be an issue with the shrines in terms of what class gives a higher chance at a certain stat but you can always just save/load to get around that.

    Some other advice: Do NOT waste learning points on gathering animal parts other than maybe skinning. It's simply not worth it. You won't need the excess gold and I think only the shadow beast horn removal actually results in an experience turn in which, ultimately, doesn't result in a net amount of LP unless you use an exploit. Even then you can just grind the orcs in the pass or outside the castle using the fire rain AoE or whatever. Basically just sink all of your points into strength while saving a few for lockpick and alchemy (for the potions). I think you only have to get your 2H to like 66% or so as tablets and a skill book in the upper quarter will bring it to 100% or close enough that it doesn't really matter.
     
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  3. Nim Augur

    Nim
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    10 Str -> 90 = 170 LPs
    90 Str -> 120 = 120 LPs
    10% 2-H -> 65% = 95 LPs

    Add alchemy (20+LP), lockpicking (10LP), pickpocketing (10LP), stone tablet (30LP) and god knows how many LPs if you really learn all skinning perks.

    Even if you abuse the cutoffs you are still looking at at least 450 LPs needed. Just forget going to 120 Str base.
     
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  4. Metro Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    Pickpocketing isn't really worth it as a strength based character. Unless I'm mistaken it is based on dexterity so if you're going with a pure strength/melee build the number of people you'll be able to pickpocket and the subsequent experience returns are going to be very low.
     
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  5. Nim Augur

    Nim
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    You can get up to +131-155 Dex (161-185 temporary) ingame without investing LPs. Think the highest Dex you need was around 120 ? Too lazy to check now. So yeah, pickpocket is going to pay for itself if you rob everyone you can. If you larp well probably not.
     
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  6. Metro Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    130?! With what? Remember he's going to use his potions for strength. Clearly there's something I'm missing but I'm not sure how you can get 100+ dexterity with just tablets, goblin berries, and rings/belt/amulets. Maybe 60ish additional tops with all of that.
     
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  7. Nim Augur

    Nim
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    As a merc who doesn't brew dex pots this should be possible ( list from the german G2DAB )
    • +1 Rengaru
    • +24 Stonetablets
    • +10 Shrines
    • +15 found/bought potions
    • +30 Embarla Firgasto
    • +30 temporary belt, amulet and 2 rings
    • +17-25 goblin berries
    Course, some of those come late in the game. Though you really need only 100-110 dex to get the vast majority of pickpockets and as we start with 10, 90+ more is def doable.
     
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  8. Metro Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    He's using the Firgasto and Shrines for strength. Never mind the fact the Firgasto is of no benefit for pickpocketing since you don't get it until the last dungeon where there is no return from. Think you're also overestimating the number of goblin berries... there's more like a dozen, maybe fifteen max and they give +1 dex each. The exploit with them dropping off of goblins (or black goblins or some other creature) isn't around anymore.
     
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  9. Nim Augur

    Nim
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    You're right about the Firgasto, wrong about the shrine. You get 10 Str, 10 Dex and 20 mana and after that HP. Once you're a mage no more STR/Dex, once a merc no mana. You also don't get these in any order. And the numbers for the berries are not mine. They are from the german G2ADB which is by far the most accurate source for NotR.
    Anyway, without the Firgasto we still get 10 base + 80 + however many berries there are.
     
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  10. Suchy Arcane

    Suchy
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    Been a while since I played, so I don't remember the numbers, but it's not really that hard to max in one specialty. In Gothic games I always take strenght for two-handed swords as my prio 1, then smithing. I skip magic entirely.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Revenant Guest

    Revenant
    Thanks for extensive replies, guys. It seems to me that 94 points of LP-bought strength (to abuse the cutoffs, of course) should be enough. Now it's another question whether it is possible to reach level 18-20 in Chapter 1. Anyway, even if I don't get to use Dragon Slicer at once, a strength of 135 will enable me to use the heavy two-hander which should be a rather good sword for the early game.

    As for pickpocketing, I don't plan to use it at all since money is not a problem in G2:NotR. I don't remember if there are pickpocketing-oriented quests, though.

    Now it would be interesting to learn how many strength potions can be found or bought (that is, not brewed) in Chapter 1, as this will significantly affect the strength cap for the early game.
     
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  12. Metro Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    Well the reason people suggest pick pocketing is because it grants a scaling amount of experience every time you do it (and you can pretty much pick pocket anyone you can have a dialog with). The returns can be pretty high, but again, it uses a dexterity check and my feeling is that the 10 LP cost isn't really worth the experience trade off unless you're going with a Dex build.
     
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  13. Nim Augur

    Nim
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    You start with 10 Str so it's 84.
    Should be possible. You do understand that going for high Strength + that 2-hander without weapon skill will severely fuck your damage ? And if you have the necessary weapon skill you won't be early game anymore. Just sayin. Oh and Beliars Claw might be nice in case you forgot.
    The blood chalice quest needs pickpocketing as the Judge is invincible.
    There is one on the paladin ship and Zuris sells one in chapter 2.
     
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  14. Revenant Guest

    Revenant
    Wait, isn't the damage formula like weapon damage + strength - enemy resistance or something? Various tidbits of information scattered over the net suggest that weapon skills only increase the chance of a critical hit. I can't find any reliable and exact formula for damage in NotR at the moment.
     
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  15. Nim Augur

    Nim
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    Metro, take a look at this list of all pickpocketable people in NotR ( yes it's in german but you should get the gist )
    http://home.arcor.de/pctuner/Gothic2/Taschendiebstahl.zip

    Revenant, damage works like this
    Critical Hit: Weapon + Str - Armor
    Normal Hit: ( Weapon + Str - Armor -1 ) / 10

    Minimum damage of 5 points IIRC.

    Weapon Skill determines Crit Hit chance which is why weapon skill is more important than Str and Weapon.
     
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  16. Murk Arcane

    Murk
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    Briefly looking over, no on seemed to mention this (I apologize if someone did) but in NotR many food items giving recurring bonuses. So you get more than just 1 str bonus from apples, and likewise dark mushrooms are recurring bonuses too. My merc last play through had plenty of mana for scrolls from dark mushrooms alone.

    And you can get more than one bowl of stew from Thekla if you go Merc and play your cards right with quests. There's the fire strips thing too, which gives you +1 str. And another str granting 'meat stew' (I want to say that's int he bandit camp in the new world, but I can't remember clearly at this point).

    On weapon damage -- you will always inflict a minimum of 5 damage to the enemy even if their armor completely engulfs your damage output. 200 hits to kill a black troll, even at level 1 with a knife.

    For the early part, you can also do the 4 point cheat. Raise your STR to 14 and then raise 5 at a time, when you get to the LP cost increase it will still only cost you the previous LP cost for the 5. Can be useful early on if you are desperate for LP (which you probably will be).

    edit; Oh right, the guy... the merchant who is under the bandit bridge, I forget his name, but he can give you +1 str if you complete his quest for the 3 old tablets.
     
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  17. Revenant Guest

    Revenant
    Well, FUCK. Yesterday I finally started the playthrough only to run into the Lares bug, where he no longer offers to take the ornament to the Water Mages after he had showed me to the mercenaries' farm. There go ~10 hours of gameplay. As far as internet guides go, there is no solution save for restarting the game. Maybe I'll have enough patience to start the game from scratch some other time.

    As for what I have learned, my goals, outlined in the first message, are not absolutely necessary to play as a melee character. It turns out there is no big need to use the Dragon Slicer very early in the game, as there are quite good two-handed weapons with far lesser strength requirements (Rod's Two-Hander begs mentioning). So, as Nim said, it's better to train your two-handed skill before sinking many points into strength, as this is a more efficient way to deal damage to enemies.
     
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  18. SCO Arcane In My Safe Space

    SCO
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    You could have used the fan patch.
     
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  19. Revenant Guest

    Revenant
    I never use any fan patches or unofficial mods for games (with the exception of OSP mod for Quake 3), because I want to play games how the developers meant them to be played.
     
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  20. SCO Arcane In My Safe Space

    SCO
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
  21. Nim Augur

    Nim
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    Enter "b lares b" ingame to get the ornament and then go give it to Saturas ( assuming we're talking about the same bug).
     
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  22. Revenant Guest

    Revenant
    This surely would have been helpful if I hadn't rage-deleted the saves along with the game...
     
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  23. Nim Augur

    Nim
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    :hmmm:

    No really, you encounter a bug and instead of posting here where you already got a ton of good advice you just rage-delete your saves ? Go recover those saves, should be possible.
     
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  24. Alex_Steel Arcane Patron

    Alex_Steel
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    Publishers you mean.
     
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  25. Revenant Guest

    Revenant
    No big deal here, I probably want to restart the game just to get into the town the first day by scaling the wall. There's a reward for that, so this kind of counts as a quest.

    Whatever. What I mean is that if some fans tamper with the game, it is no longer the same game in my book. Like if I would draw something on the Mona Lisa, it wouldn't be da Vinci's Mona Lisa any more.
     
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