Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Gothic is not an RPG

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,689
1- If we are going to call story-driven games with non-custom character as rpg, then we should also call Prince of Persia and God of War as RPG too.
Bullshit. It doesn't matter if your character is custom-made or set, as long as you can develop him however you please. This is even more true considering how rarely your character's sex or origin matters in cRPGs. That said, I agree with the notion of custom characters being reflected in the game (origin, sex, profession, etc.), because it adds more variables for the player to play with and the game to react to.

2- There is a linear scenario in the game, your decisions don't effect shit other than the armor color. Such a game should fall into the Action category.
Sadly a lot of cRPGs have linear scenarios with very minor variations. Also, isn't "action RPG" a thing?

3- You cannot follow various methods while doing quests.
I agree that way too few cRPGs allow you to do whatever you want in as free-form way as you want, which I consider to be the staple of the genre. But if such are the criteria, then you'd have to hurl out a lot of games that are considered classic cRPGs (and I am talking not just about this particular point you made, but about all three of them combined). Can you even imagine the culling it would cause?
 

Zlaja

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
5,682
Location
Swedex
Gothic is an RPG, because the skillpoints you earn are distributed to uppgrade different type of skills, which in turn make you better at different things. And you can't just be a master of everything. This is far more important for a game to be considered an RPG, then your ability to decide how main quest pans out in the end.
 
Last edited:

Arthandas

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
1,371
Judging by the CRPG Book literally every game is 100% rpg as long as it has stats or level ups.
 

Funposter

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,773
Location
Australia
RPGs are defined by meeting a list of generally agreed upon criteria such as character creation, choice and consequence in quests/missions, levelling up which involves skill or attribute allocation (character building) etc. Where the definition of an RPG breaks down is how many of the criteria need to be met for a game to actually be considered one.

Gothic's lack of character creation is genuinely a big blow against it, but it excels in other areas, such that it's balanced out. One thing I will say in response to people claiming that levelling (which Gothic does well) is intergral to an RPG, is that a Dungeons and Dragons campaign which never proceeds past Level 1 is still an RPG. Levelling is an expression of your character and their growth, but the ability to define your character at the outset is arguably more important.
 

Jacob

Pronouns: Nick/Her
Patron
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
3,336
Location
Hatington
Grab the Codex by the pussy
1- If we are going to call story-driven games with non-custom character as rpg, then we should also call Prince of Persia and God of War as RPG too.

2- There is a linear scenario in the game, your decisions don't effect shit other than the armor color. Such a game should fall into the Action category.

3- You cannot follow various methods while doing quests.

4- I'm not saying Gothic is a bad game.
Joined:
Jul 7, 2021
 

thesheeep

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
9,939
Location
Tampere, Finland
Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
It's not a pure RPG since a lot of the game is not purely stat-driven but instead driven by physical player skill (reflexes, etc.).
Like most RPGs, it's a hybrid.

But I'd argue there's enough RPG in there to still be able to call it an RPG and not be totally off.

... I don't think that's a very difficult concept to grasp?
 

Konjad

⛏
Patron
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
3,930
Location
⛺
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
OP is right. Gothic is not a role playing game.

Gothic is a simulator. An European Simulator. Different camps are just different modern ideologies. You get typical commie hipsters with free gibs, new age anarcho-individualists, and cuckservatives who appropriately backstab you the moment you try to have some common sense.

You go up by getting a new position in the career of your choice (mage, guard or whatever) and in the end who ends up with you? Helping you with tasks? That's right. You don't even get a payrise and have to pay for a new armor.

Not even mentioning that your arch-enemy is a "Sleeper" because nowadays you're not supposed to sleep but work yourself to death for overlords.
 

lossantos

Educated
Joined
Jul 6, 2021
Messages
28
1- If we are going to call story-driven games with non-custom character as rpg, then we should also call Prince of Persia and God of War as RPG too.

2- There is a linear scenario in the game, your decisions don't effect shit other than the armor color. Such a game should fall into the Action category.

3- You cannot follow various methods while doing quests.

4- I'm not saying Gothic is a bad game.
Joined:
Jul 7, 2021

What do you mean here? Do I have to spend 60% of my life on a site of angry incels to be able to talk about RPG games?
 

Langendorf

Novice
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Messages
5
What do you mean here? Do I have to spend 60% of my life on a site of angry incels to be able to talk about RPG games?

Aren't you talking about a non-RPG game in this instance though? Unless you've just admitted to Gothic being an RPG after all.
 

lossantos

Educated
Joined
Jul 6, 2021
Messages
28
What do you mean here? Do I have to spend 60% of my life on a site of angry incels to be able to talk about RPG games?

Aren't you talking about a non-RPG game in this instance though? Unless you've just admitted to Gothic being an RPG after all.

I see these types in every thread, who have no source of pride other than registering a few years earlier in the rpg codex.
 

Langendorf

Novice
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Messages
5
I see these types in every thread, who have no source of pride other than registering a few years earlier in the rpg codex.

It seems like your predicament isn't much different from the reality, that the Nameless Hero faces when he's first thrown into the penal colony. You've also found your very own Bullit in Jacob.
Guess the community here is dead set on giving the newcomers a full RPG treatment.

I usually dispatch Bullit within the first 6-8 hours of gameplay. Let's see how you'll fare with yours.
I reckon your chances of beating my time to be as slim as a pine tree producing an apple that later ends up on a pizza in a genuine Italian ristorante. That's all given how you've seemingly adapted a tactic akin to coming uninvited to a Stone Age stone-con berating one of the regulars' favorite rocks by yelling it's in fact not a rock at all, as it is slightly different than the other rocks. Newsflash; they all differ from one another.

Don't take it personally. I'm just trying to demonstrate by example, that even the newest community members will try and give you shit. It's not exclusively the veterans that you have to be wary of.
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
Play the role of the master chief chosen of innos and choose between plasma grenades fireball or frag grenades iceball with extreme consequences.

etc.
 

lossantos

Educated
Joined
Jul 6, 2021
Messages
28
I see these types in every thread, who have no source of pride other than registering a few years earlier in the rpg codex.

It seems like your predicament isn't much different from the reality, that the Nameless Hero faces when he's first thrown into the penal colony. You've also found your very own Bullit in Jacob.
Guess the community here is dead set on giving the newcomers a full RPG treatment.

I usually dispatch Bullit within the first 6-8 hours of gameplay. Let's see how you'll fare with yours.
I reckon your chances of beating my time to be as slim as a pine tree producing an apple that later ends up on a pizza in a genuine Italian ristorante. That's all given how you've seemingly adapted a tactic akin to coming uninvited to a Stone Age stone-con berating one of the regulars' favorite rocks by yelling it's in fact not a rock at all, as it is slightly different than the other rocks. Newsflash; they all differ from one another.

Don't take it personally. I'm just trying to demonstrate by example, that even the newest community members will try and give you shit. It's not exclusively the veterans that you have to be wary of.

Dear Mohammad the Pedo, is this much autism really possible?
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
1- If we are going to call story-driven games with non-custom character as rpg, then we should also call Prince of Persia and God of War as RPG too.
On the contrary, does that mean games such as Planescape: Torment are not RPGs either?
2- There is a linear scenario in the game, your decisions don't effect shit other than the armor color. Such a game should fall into the Action category.
I can't help but think of P:T as well. The main storyline is pretty much the same regardless of choices made along the way, with only slight variation in game endings.
3- You cannot follow various methods while doing quests.
You can though for a lot of quests, both in G1 and G2.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,624
Don't really see why it wouldn't be an RPG, outside of a purist "if it doesn't use dicerolls, it's not an RPG" or "if I can't pause and think, it's not an RPG".

You develop your character, you make choices which influence the way you experience the game in a meaningful way, and your build matters. It's a stark contrast to games where your character develops themselves over time in a rather linear fashion, and where your build doesn't really matter.
 

undecaf

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
3,517
Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
It fits more than well in the ARPG chair (that’s ”action”, not ”autism” RPG).
 

Nortar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Messages
1,407
Pathfinder: Wrath
How can we tell whether or not Gothic is an RPG, if we do not first define what an RPG is?

You all are bigots and rpggynists!
Nowadays there's only one qualifier for a game to be an rpg.
See the words of the wise in the sig.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,624
If it feels like an RPG when I'm playing it, then it's an RPG and no one can tell me otherwise. :cool:
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,110
You are right. Gothic is not an RPG. It is THE BEST RPG.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom