"Gothic" MMO

[Not.AI]

Suppose that Gothic was MMO...

With microtransactions. Everything is better with microtransactions. Microtransactions that do, in fact, affect gameplay. (Those are the best kind.)

And procedurally generated - little or no hand-crafting. But with some AI writing that isn't complete shit. (You find some unicorns in a valley; you speak with them. They tell you they are descended from a long lost tribe of aztecs. Then they dived underwater. You must collect 50 horsetails and bring them to the candlemaker. He will then unlock the castle.)

Could anything save it? Suppose the answer is yes - what do you think it would have to be?

Put it another way: What would a "Star Citizen" type game need to have to be "Gothic" type game? (In space. Everything is better in space. Obviously.)

Suppose some things from single player that could be implemented are implemented in an MMO - how many such things would be needed? What things stand a chance?

Restrict access to areas by putting tougher enemies there? Catch: They would have to respawn quickly. So new/weak players can't just follow leveled up players. Dot dot dot.

How can a MMO "Gothic" ever be made? Suppose (despite all evidence) that it can - how can it?

(Yeah...this is a "define RPG" type thread...)

 

[Farewell into the night]

ELEX!

 

[JDR13]

Suppose that Gothic was MMO...

With microtransactions. Everything is better with microtransactions. Microtransactions that do, in fact, affect gameplay. (Those are the best kind.)

And procedurally generated - little or no hand-crafting. But with some AI writing that isn't complete shit. (You find some unicorns in a valley; you speak with them. They tell you they are descended from a long lost tribe of aztecs. Then they dived underwater. You must collect 50 horsetails and bring them to the candlemaker. He will then unlock the castle.)

Could anything save it? Suppose the answer is yes - what do you think it would have to be?

Put it another way: What would a "Star Citizen" type game need to have to be "Gothic" type game? (In space. Everything is better in space. Obviously.)

Suppose some things from single player that could be implemented are implemented in an MMO - how many such things would be needed? What things stand a chance?

Restrict access to areas by putting tougher enemies there? Catch: They would have to respawn quickly. So new/weak players can't just follow leveled up players. Dot dot dot.

How can a MMO "Gothic" ever be made? Suppose (despite all evidence) that it can - how can it?

(Yeah...this is a "define RPG" type thread...)

 

[Not.AI]

"Not sure if serious...''

Half serious. Coin flip. Serious if it says heads. Not serious if tails.

Which is another point: - how much can be random and it still "feel" like a single player experience that rewards exploration? Except friends are there, and strangers are there, and it's not a single player experience.

Suppose you actually had to make such a game and had the resources. What design choices will you make?

It can be Gothic, for example, but it absolutely must include gameplay affecting microtransactions too - how would *you* try turning that into a positive?

"ELEX!"

Good point. In both senses.

Every player needs a jetpack. At level 1. All players - so all characters - should begin with jetpacks. It is their basic right to do so in all future games.

That also takes care of the bunny hopping. Surely nobody would hop around if they can fly.

So a serious story would be possible.

You can't really have a serious, award-winning story if The One Chosen By The Gods - The Hero Of Legendary Reknown - bunny hops up and down every hill.

Good. Stories should only be serious. If you win, the main character drops dead. (In a tragic way, in a long cinematic...) If he drops dead before then, you don't win.

"Winning" will probably have to mean completing all the campaign quests? That way you can buy content to delay winning and having to start a new character...

I'm brainstorming.

 

[moleman]

Don't do drugs, kids.

 

[Not.AI]

Let me put it another way - sorites parable style.

(1) Suppose that "Gothic" - considered as *any* game that has that kind of style and gameplay and design choices - was remade today.

(1a) One thing was changed - only one thing. That thing was that gameplay-affecting microtransactions were in it. Would it still be "Gothic"?

(2) Suppose that (1) was the case. But in addition to (1a), more than one person could join that world.

(2a) So some things would have to respawn - would it still be "Gothic"?

1. Y/N?

2. Y/N?

 

[Norfleet]

Restrict access to areas by putting tougher enemies there? Catch: They would have to respawn quickly. So new/weak players can't just follow leveled up players. Dot dot dot.

What's wrong with weak players following levelled up players? Seemas reasonable to me. If a weak player wants to follow a stronger player and pick up the scraps of the kill, that is a perfectly legitimate playstyle. Plenty of animals in nature follow along after stronger predators to scavenge their leftovers.

 

[Not.AI]

What's wrong with weak players following leveled up players? Seems reasonable to me. If a weak player wants to follow a stronger player and pick up the scraps of the kill, that is a perfectly legitimate playstyle. Plenty of animals in nature follow along after stronger predators to scavenge their leftovers.

It is a possible and sometimes optimal or near optimal playstyle - and true to nature - yes - when there are many players but not too many players.

Problems seem to appear when there are sufficiently many players.

(Hence, for example, D:OS 2, allows several players to play together, but not a thousand.)

(i) At some point in time, there would be enough leveled up players walking in any area that no tough enemies would remain to gate areas to new players that have not yet leveled up. But part of the whole fun of a "Gothic" game is *returning* to an area and defeating all the enemies one had to run away from previously.

The satisfaction is not available to new players.

So paradoxically, if strong enemies do not respawn, exactly like in a single-player "Gothic", the multiplayer "Gothic" would not be a "Gothic" experience for most players. - Most players would join after the shared environment has been running for a while.

But if the "tough" enemies do respawn over time with some probability, then for yet *other* players, the ones that leveled up and already defeated the enemies once, the multiplayer experience is (also) not a "Gothic" experience fundamentally.

However, respawning enemies means somebody somewhere has to be grinding. Unless the statistics work out "just so" and the rates match up and players just happen to move in paths that do not lead them too often back to enemies they already defeated - before somebody else again defeated those enemies after they respawned.

Possible alternatives to respawning enemies and not respawning enemies? Some other system of spawning and placing enemies to begin with?

(ii) After the game has been running for a while, with sufficiently many players, all the enemies end up defeated and are gone - if enemies never respawn. No more PvE for most players. They would only have PvP and that is not the "Gothic" type experience.

(iii) Weaker players following stronger players will actually happen and should be possible, but it should be possible only sufficiently infrequently.

 

[JDR13]

Not "massive" but there are quite a lot multiplayer servers for Gothic.

Eh? Are we all talking about the same game?

 

[Not.AI]

You know what we need - MMORPGs where you can beat the big bosses even at lvl 1 if you try.

Like you could with the trolls.

Who agrees? Or would that break the game, given the loot and the markeplace that exists in online games?

Would that mean "rare" loot must require a lot of levels to equip, if that kind of boss design is true of all the bosses?

 

[JDR13]

Yes. There are actually online multiplayer (roleplaying) servers for playing Gothic together.
There are quite a handful german, polish and russian servers.

That's interesting. I had never heard of a multiplayer mod for Gothic. Pretty cool that people are still playing it after all these years.

Now if I could only get that DX11 patch to work correctly...

 

[Wunderbar]

Not.AI i hope you're not a dev from THQ Nordic Barcelona.

 

[Jinn]

Now if I could only get that DX11 patch to work correctly...

Should be as simple as unpacking the zip file into your Gothic directory "system" file after you install the 1.08k patch, player kit, and then system pack 1.6. Hit F11 in-game to configure.

 

[JDR13]

Now if I could only get that DX11 patch to work correctly...

Should be as simple as unpacking the zip file into your Gothic directory "system" file after you install the 1.08k patch, player kit, and then system pack 1.6. Hit F11 in-game to configure.

I've got it to run, but it breaks the sky effects which is kind of a big deal to me. Gothic just isn't the same without that magic barrier.

 

[Jinn]

I've got it to run, but it breaks the sky effects which is kind of a big deal to me. Gothic just isn't the same without that magic barrier.

Very strange. I just recently reinstalled Gothic 1 myself with all of the above. Everything runs great and the barrier effect is well intact. Are you running it on Windows 10?

 

[luj1]

Gothic MMO

MMOs are cancer and Gothic is skippable. No one needs this.

 

[JDR13]

I've got it to run, but it breaks the sky effects which is kind of a big deal to me. Gothic just isn't the same without that magic barrier.

Very strange. I just recently reinstalled Gothic 1 myself with all of the above. Everything runs great and the barrier effect is well intact. Are you running it on Windows 10?

Are you entirely sure about that? The sky effects not working is a known issue.

 

[United Nations]

Suppose that Gothic was MMO...

With microtransactions. Everything is better with microtransactions. Microtransactions that do, in fact, affect gameplay. (Those are the best kind.)

And procedurally generated - little or no hand-crafting. But with some AI writing that isn't complete shit. (You find some unicorns in a valley; you speak with them. They tell you they are descended from a long lost tribe of aztecs. Then they dived underwater. You must collect 50 horsetails and bring them to the candlemaker. He will then unlock the castle.)

Could anything save it? Suppose the answer is yes - what do you think it would have to be?

Put it another way: What would a "Star Citizen" type game need to have to be "Gothic" type game? (In space. Everything is better in space. Obviously.)

Suppose some things from single player that could be implemented are implemented in an MMO - how many such things would be needed? What things stand a chance?

Restrict access to areas by putting tougher enemies there? Catch: They would have to respawn quickly. So new/weak players can't just follow leveled up players. Dot dot dot.

How can a MMO "Gothic" ever be made? Suppose (despite all evidence) that it can - how can it?

(Yeah...this is a "define RPG" type thread...)

This would turn out to be the most buggy game of all time.

 

[Dodo1610]

Gothic 2 already has multiplayer mods

 

[Not.AI]

This would turn out to be the most buggy game of all time.

Could be.

But sometimes the bugs are part of the charm of a thing.

So let's call them something different. Charm points.

Not bugs. Charm points.

So to rephrase your statement: "It would have the most charm points." To which the answer could only be: YES.

 

[Konjad]

Ur mom has microtransactions and they are a mixed bag.

 

[Azdul]

You know what we need - MMORPGs where you can beat the big bosses even at lvl 1 if you try.

Like you could with the trolls.

Who agrees? Or would that break the game, given the loot and the markeplace that exists in online games?

Gothic combat system won't work in MMO. Staggering does not work when there is more than 1 player character. If lvl 1 characters can in theory defeat bosses, clever players will find a way to do it through exploits. Economy will be broken in first week.

Orks vs humans PvP won't work either - you'll need more than 2 factions to have balanced realm vs realm.

I would rather invent new fantasy / medieval world that fits the needs of MMO than try to adapt Gothic to accommodate 1000 players at once. 95% of players won't know what Gothic is, and other 5% will be pissed that it does not play like Gothic 1/2.