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Griftlands - Klei's sci-fi deck-building roguelike - now available on Early Access

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by LESS T_T, Jun 12, 2017.

  1. Infinitron I post news Patron

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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    https://www.pcgamer.com/we-lost-an-open-world-griftlands-and-gained-a-card-game/

     
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  2. SausageInYourFace Codexian Sausage Patron

    SausageInYourFace
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    Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I has a sad Klei abandoned the RPG but I am hopeful it will turn out a fun game anyway. Interesting comparison to the fairly little known Card Hunter, which I have been recommending every now and then as a neat little tactical combat/card builder game with a charming pnp style.
     
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  3. Jinn Arcane

    Jinn
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    Terrible news. Was really looking forward to this. Now it's a card game.
     
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  4. Life of the Party Arcane

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  5. toro Arcane

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    un-wishlisted. this will be a flop
     
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  6. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/07/16/griftlands-early-access-review/

     
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  7. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...trouble-with-everything-being-a-card-game-now

     
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  8. Metro Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    Jesus fucking Christ... I was looking forward to this... but not now.
     
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  9. LESS T_T Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    LESS T_T
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    Codex 2014
    Now on Steam Early Access:





     
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  10. Multi-headed Cow Cipher

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    Little torn on picking this up. Probably will just because it's so cheap and Klei hasn't made a bad game yet, but on the other hand I watched a decent chunk of gameplay before it was available on Steam and it looks kind of plodding and not as interesting as Slay the Spire or even Monster Train. The concept is cool, deckbuilder with a campaign and story and more stuff padded around the cards, but I dunno. Still, it's Klei.
     
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  11. Empary Learned

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    FUCKIN CARDS MAN
     
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  12. Metro Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    Bundle fodder.
     
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  13. SausageInYourFace Codexian Sausage Patron

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    Normally, that should mean d1p but with the production history this has had .. I dunno. Not too excited anymore.
     
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  14. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
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    I've been playing it for a while, it's certainly better than that monster train crap everyone is fawning over. But this wasn't on my radar before it was a card game so I wasn't butthurt before even playing it.
     
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  15. Multi-headed Cow Cipher

    Multi-headed Cow
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    Buddy bought me a copy so I've played a little. Thus far feeling pretty positive, down side is the campaign and events look to most likely be locked-in and the same every run. The majority, at least. Rewards may differ and some side-stuff may differ but that's a shame regardless. Thus far the feeling's fairly good though, pretty easy but I'm also on the easiest difficulty since they've got a ripped off ascension system and it's not unlocked for me yet. Probably won't go too nuts playing it in early access and will wait for release to go balls-deep because I burned myself with Don't Starve and Invisible Inc by going too hard too early when the release version was significantly better, but I'll dink around some more.
     
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  16. Multi-headed Cow Cipher

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    First run complete, got a win. A fairly easy win, too. Could stand to have more difficulty even before you unlock higher difficulties, but eh. The structure of the story seems to be more CYOA than completely linear, quests and encounters can differ based on your choices even though making the same choices will give you nearly identical quests. They are still expanding that but it's a notable difference from StS. Speaking of StS, the cards aren't as interesting. Deck archetypes aren't very outlandish for Sal (Also with zero card unlocks. Once I won my campaign I unlocked a stack of additional cards so I don't doubt that'll help spice things up) or that special to pilot. While you would unlock cards and relics in StS for each character, it was a handful of cards. Maybe around 8. In Griftlands, it looks like there are 60 (!) cards to unlock for each character, so starting out your cards are really basic.

    All that rambling about unlocking is the biggest knock against playing it currently. The way the game's set up you end up unlocking a significant portion of the game via repeated play, which isn't inherently awful in itself but if you want to dump a bunch of hours in during early access and then your progress gets wiped that'd fucking suck.

    The sandbox campaign stuff is kind of a mixed bag. Right now it feels a little too barebones. It feels like they need to either tighten it up and make the sandbox/freeform stuff (Like relationships with NPCs) more mechanical and crunchy, or leave it mushy but expand on the flavorful events and stuff that happens based on it. The system currently is kind of a mix of the two, with some options to raise/lower reputations and take some nearly useless-sounding actions with the NPCs, as well as the NPCs getting occasional events with you. At the end of the campaign it felt like the reputation system amounted to a hill of beans, got ambushed a few times by a hostile, got a positive event or two from a friendly, and then you get some minor passive bonuses and penalties based on it.

    The card leveling system is also underwhelming. Basic/starter cards get semi-randomized upgrades so it's sort of a crapshoot what your options will be (The ones that delete them from your deck are almost always good. Except for the defense cards because there looked to be fuck-all non-basic defense cards without unlocks), but rares/uncommons will have the same options every time. Leveling up cards is easy, a row of pips on the card shows you how many times it needs to be played before it'll level (After the combat) and then it remains leveled up for good. The upgraded cards are usually minor though. Another point of damage here, reduced mana cost there, etc. Useful but nothing that jumped out at me for some deck-changing upgrade. Just to compare it unfavorably to StS once again, StS card upgrades are harder to get and feel much more precious. There are mechanisms to stop you from just farming some poor slob in a fight for half an hour to level up your cards, too. A fatigue debuff eventually pops up and stops further XP gain.

    Overall... It's no StS but I did have a good time. That first run took me around 5 hours, and that was including reading all the fluff and story as well as reading all the cards/cybernetics and chatting. Once you know what you're doing and you're moving at a decent clip I could see a Griftlands run taking an hour or two. The extreme focus on unlocking means I've got even more reason to wait until the game's finished just in case they wipe progress, but I am looking forward to playing more and I'm interested to see how the game behaves with more cards unlocked and on higher difficulties. Which are also, unfortunately, unlocked. Just like ascension in Slay the Spire, looks like it's a climbing scale of around 20.
     
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  17. Multi-headed Cow Cipher

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    And a quick rambling post since I played and won a campaign with the second character!

    Second character does get a completely unique campaign (New map, story, NPCs, events, etc etc etc) and a few new mechanics (Coin-flipping, charge-meter on his pistols) which is nice for variety. You can upgrade/swap his coin at various points during his story to change the mechanics of it a little, a hell of a lot of his cards are based on the coin/face of the coin/flipping the coin which is sorta neat, but it's unique to the negotiation deck. His pistols, obviously, are unique to the combat deck. It LOOKED like you could change your pistols (There was a separate screen for it, much like the coin) but it never came up during the campaign, so I assume it's something they're going to add later.

    His campaign's a bit trickier to start than the first character. You don't start off as strong and it feels like there are more random negative events, but he also seemed to ramp up in power faster after leveling some cards and drafting some more. Also got a really kickass relic fairly early. As with the first character it feels like too much of his cool shit is hidden behind unlocks because you can see a few potential deck archetypes but the cards you have access to are so basic in the first run that you're just left making a goodshit deck. Goodshit decks are usually better/more reliable anyway, but it's less fun than shooting for the moon.

    Got a slight better understanding of the boon/bane system too and was more willing to murder people. Complaints about the sandbox stuff held true in his campaign as well, though it went a little smoother now that I had a better understanding of it and was experimenting more. Still feels like it needs more work to make it more lively. I'm not really sure why it has a 97% rating on Steam at the moment honestly. I'm not some die-hard "PUNCH ME IN THE DICK, YEAH, YEAH!!!!!!!!!" card-grog but Slay the Spire and Card Quest still seem way ahead of Griftlands. The one distinguishing feature of Griftlands is the light RPG trappings around the card battles which is where it feels like they really need to focus. Again, the card battles very well might get more interesting once everything's unlocked, but the RPG shit is the one area where other deckbuilders aren't competing. Only other thing sort of like that is, I guess, Shandalar.
     
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  18. Pope Amole II Prestigious Gentleman Nerd Commando Game Studios Developer

    Pope Amole II
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    Gordian Quest, released this spring. Kinda the same stuff as this but with blander plot and even worse cardgame execution.

    I sorta liked Griftlands but, tbh, the card element has nothing to do with it. It's rather badly designed and it doesn't really improve the game in any way - it could've been using any other kind of roguelite/turn-based combat and would've fared quite the same. Story, writing and visuals are top-notch, though, so it was simply pleasant to play this as a more or less of an RPG experience. Did 3 runs - talky merc, talky spy and brawling, 30-ish killcount merc. The last one was especially easy but that's probably due to system being rather shallow - it's not that difficult at the start and gets even easier with practice.
     
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  19. Multi-headed Cow Cipher

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    Just looked Gordian Quest up, even though you say it's got a blander story and worse gameplay I'll toss it on my wishlist for a potential deep sale just because I'd probably like to take a look at it eventually. And since it's early access too I guess there's the outside chance that it improves.

    I do wonder about how difficult Griftlands gets after unlocking stuff though. Not only adding ascension levels (I forget what Griftlands calls it. Prestige? Sounds right) as the most direct route of increasing difficulty, but even once you have all the cards unlocked. Having another 60+ cards in the draft pool would likely add difficulty in itself just because it's harder to keep your deck consistent. And on a slightly related note, that brings to mind one of the weaknesses of Griftlands compared to Slay the Spire. In STS the acts and bosses have more distinct character and flavor and encounter design, so after enough play you can start valuing cards differently at different points in the game. Not wanting to go too heavily into card spam in case the final boss is time eater, keeping your eyes open for any AOE near the end of act 1 because act 2 has so many more group encounters, etc. After a couple Griftlands runs I basically didn't see any encounters/bosses that punished or were especially weak to any strategies. I think the merc faced a boss that punished card spam a little bit, and that was essentially it. Though again that's just comparing Griftlands and STS directly as card games where STS pretty easily wins.

    100% agreed on it being pleasant to play though. Even as I bitch about the card upgrading not being as impactful or interesting as STS, when I'm playing Griftlands it has a really satisfying groove to it. Do a quest, do a few negotiations/combats, level up a few cards, get a reward, get a time-limited encounter, visit the shops, repeat 2-3 times until you face the day-end boss, start over again. The biggest downer is there's very little thought going on during that whole process. Also agreed that the card system doesn't factor into everything else much. One area where you kind of see it is in the "Kill reward" cards characters have. If you kill so-and-so you'll get THIS card! That has potential to be interesting (Player's greed being tickled to kill an NPC for a card that'd work well in his deck, with potential world-sandbox ramifications on the murder) but a lot of the cards in question are "Items" which burn up after 1-3 uses. So even for a good item card you're not eyeing a character and thinking about killing them just for the immediate gain. And even if you were, like I was bitching about earlier the reputation system's not got enough teeth to feel incredibly important anyway. In ascension 0 with no unlocks at least.
     
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  20. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
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    There's a bunch of mutators you can apply to a run as well. I tried a couple runs (one by accident, forgot it was still on) with the 'everyone dislikes you' flag being set. WAY more difficult, suddenly lots of people will hate you and there's nothing you can do, everything costs more, negotiations are all a decent chunk harder, etc.
    Mechanical enemies are immune to fire and bleed, which are both pretty viable strategies otherwise, and take double damage from piercing attacks, which are otherwise fairly crap. Enemy piercing attacks can really ruin a defensive strategy, AoE stuff will wreck you if you're relying on a squad of allies/pets, there's a bunch of stuff like that. There are strategies that are pretty much foolproof though, and negotiation seems a bit more shallow despite all the extra mechanics. I made a deck with the spy that was utterly broken, infinite combo on turn one 90% of the time, and you can get pretty crazy stuff going in melee too with the right cards.

    What impresses me about it is the variety of novel ideas. Most of these games have a ton of stale cards that just do varying amounts of damage and seem afraid to ask the player to understand mechanics more complex than simple damage over time or damage buffs. Griftlands gets creative, cards that trigger from inside your deck when you meet a trigger condition but can't be played normally, lots of extra resource types that are entirely optional like combo and charge and overcharge and influence and rigged coin flips... it needs a lot more polish and more content for the campaigns, but you can see the foundations of a great game in there.

    StS is overrated imo. I played it a lot while it was the entire genre, but after playing a bunch of variations on the theme it's lots it's charm. Too many things are just generically powerful, like shuriken/kunai or anything that gives lots of energy or card draw, so everything feels kinda samey. The special mechanics like poison or karma (does Ironclad even have... anything? Exhaust?) fall apart in harder runs and you're left relying on the same generic damage/defense/card spam strategy.
     
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  21. Space Satan Arcane

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  22. Multi-headed Cow Cipher

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    Good point on the mutators, I haven't fucked around with them yet myself but I guess that is true. Somehow feels worse than just flat out increasing the difficulty, though.

    Things like mechanical enemies are true (Although I could've sworn I still used burn/bleed on them. Or do they just take the area-burn from other burning enemies, maybe?) and AoE stuff is awkward if you're in a group, but groups still tend to be almost zero-cost and come with the mission (At most you spent a bit of cash on a pet) so it's less of something you've built toward. But you also don't get much of a sense of "This is the mechanical part of the story" or "This is the AoE part of the story" which was part of what I was getting at with STS. Feels more like a hodgepodge that you can (Or could, if it made a noticeable difference) guide a little based on mission selection and who you're working for.

    STS is underrated because there are people who haven't yet seen the light. It will only be appropriately appreciated when it's included with almost every computer alongside solitaire and billions of people can play it.:rpgcodex:
    There are definitely some straight up good/best relics that are ALMOST always (ALMOST) a snap pick. And as you mentioned energy/mana is key in STS, but there are often diminishing returns depending on how your deck's made. Getting to 4 energy is valuable for just about every deck, but going beyond that requires more thought. It is true that harder difficulty tends to punish going too hard into archetypes though, but that's also why I find STS fun on high and low difficulty. High's if you want to wrack your brain trying to put together a goodshit deck out of what you're offered, and low's fun for trying weird things out/going hard on an archetype/score attacking, etc. Ironclad's got armor (I know all of them do, but since he directly turns it into damage it's special for him (Although caltrops Silent does a similar thing)), strength manipulation (Again, used by others but he's got more strength pumping burst damage stuff), and indeed exhaust. But Ironclad's also the simplest class since he's the one you start with. He's also got the slight memes of thin-deck and fat-deck, for Rampage and Perfected Strike respectively. Usually not super strong but they are both fun to play, especially going for ultra-thin Rampage.

    God damn it I love STS. My highest playtime game on Steam if you ignore TF2 which you should since a lot of that was idling to mine hatcoin when it was profitable.
     
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  23. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
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    So you played Undertale on another platform huh? Which one?

    Yeah the mutators aren't satisfying, but I'm assuming effects like that will get added at higher prestige. It is kinda cool that they're there if you want some of the really crazy ones that totally change things, like having unlimited relic slots but no money or something. They'll probably work them into a random daily challenge thing like StS has at some point.

    I had a 'party' build at one point before, I had 3 permanent pets. Was pretty cool until I ran into a fucker with a rocket launcher. RIP pets. Kinda expected that though, I'm hoping they make the archetype more available in the future, there's already quite a few cards/relics/events that work well with extra party members.

    Once you've played through a couple times you'll know which chapters have/might have a mechanical boss or even specific missions, so you could pick missions to avoid those types of enemies and build a deck that wouldn't be effective against them (in retrospect I think burn might work but wounds and bleed do not). There's a mission for the spy for example that puts you into a survival fight against machines where you want to kill as many as possible for a bigger reward, and the merc has a similar situation but for robbing people on the road.

    I'm holding off on playing more till it's in a much more finished state, no sense burning out when the game is going to be much, much better in a year or so.
     
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  24. Multi-headed Cow Cipher

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    Lucky bastard! Closest I've managed is 2 semi-permanent pets. One actual permanent pet (A robodog, while playing the spy) and then the "Permanent" pet which was a 1 mana card with unlimited uses (Though exhausts when played) to summon a shitty rusty robodog. So one with full pet mechanics and then the other was a card to pull in a cannon-fodder unit. Wanted to go pet-heavy on the merc after getting my alien dog and upgrading it but despite having access to a pet store, it only let me have one pet at a time.
     
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  25. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
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    Yeah I had a normal permanent pet, then a card that turned into a permanent pet after hatching, which I was able to make a copy of. Lots of wounds which synergized with my spammy build pretty well, but couldn't upgrade them so it wasn't that strong. Still haven't figured out how to fight the alternate boss for the spy, if there is such a thing right now. It definitely seems like you should be able to side with the boggers somehow.
     
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