Grimoire Class Discussion/Beginner's Tips

[Zep Zepo]

My metalsmith is getting criticals just fine with Caliburnus. With a non-lethal weapon it never happens, just as it never happens with a lethal weapon on my warrior who obviously has no lethalblow.

Does your skill in Lethal Blow go up when you crit?

Zep--

 

[Winslow]

Does your skill in Lethal Blow go up when you crit?

Zep--

It goes up every time it triggers. Thus it goes up faster the higher it gets.

 

[Zep Zepo]

Does your skill in Lethal Blow go up when you crit?

Zep--

It goes up every time it triggers. Thus it goes up faster the higher it gets.

Interesting. I'll test some more with my drake once I actually unlock the skilll.

Is Lethal Blow in Physical or Martial category?

Zep--

 

[Winslow]

Interesting. I'll test some more with my drake once I actually unlock the skilll.

Is Lethal Blow in Physical or Martial category?

Zep--

I'm pretty sure it's physical for all classes. I only know of one case of category confusion with berserkers having Ancient History as a physical skill while every other class (edit. or just sage) with access to it seems to have it as mental.

There's probably some threshold for a minimum level you need for it to trigger, I noticed that my ranger that had it at 5 was never gaining it in use, while the others who I invested skill points into it started gaining regularly at around 25-30.

 

[Zep Zepo]

Ok..I couldn't wait...so I hacked in Lethal Blow on my Drake Metalsmith @ skill level 85.

Using a *LETHAL* Zwiehander.
Crit on the first battle I tried. (lucky me)
Skill notice says I Improved in Lethal Blow.
Checked Stats.
Indeed it went up to 86 from 85.

So I guess it does work, and hacked in as a skill also works.

Zep--

 

[Rpguy]

Ok..I couldn't wait...so I hacked in Lethal Blow on my Drake Metalsmith @ skill level 85.

Using a *LETHAL* Zwiehander.
Crit on the first battle I tried. (lucky me)
Skill notice says I Improved in Lethal Blow.
Checked Stats.
Indeed it went up to 86 from 85.

So I guess it does work, and hacked in as a skill also works.

Zep--

Can you try to get a crit with a non-lethal weapon but with a skill of 100/120? According to cleve it should be possible.

At least we know it works on lethal weapons.

 

[Zep Zepo]

Ok..I couldn't wait...so I hacked in Lethal Blow on my Drake Metalsmith @ skill level 85.

Using a *LETHAL* Zwiehander.
Crit on the first battle I tried. (lucky me)
Skill notice says I Improved in Lethal Blow.
Checked Stats.
Indeed it went up to 86 from 85.

So I guess it does work, and hacked in as a skill also works.

Zep--

Can you try to get a crit with a non-lethal weapon but with a skill of 100/120? According to cleve it should be possible.

Yeah...gimme a minute

Zep--

 

[Rpguy]

Ok..I couldn't wait...so I hacked in Lethal Blow on my Drake Metalsmith @ skill level 85.

Using a *LETHAL* Zwiehander.
Crit on the first battle I tried. (lucky me)
Skill notice says I Improved in Lethal Blow.
Checked Stats.
Indeed it went up to 86 from 85.

So I guess it does work, and hacked in as a skill also works.

Zep--

Can you try to get a crit with a non-lethal weapon but with a skill of 100/120? According to cleve it should be possible.

Yeah...gimme a minute

Zep--

You can make a party of 8 drake metalsmiths to speed things up

 

[Zep Zepo]

Ok..I couldn't wait...so I hacked in Lethal Blow on my Drake Metalsmith @ skill level 85.

Using a *LETHAL* Zwiehander.
Crit on the first battle I tried. (lucky me)
Skill notice says I Improved in Lethal Blow.
Checked Stats.
Indeed it went up to 86 from 85.

So I guess it does work, and hacked in as a skill also works.

Zep--

Can you try to get a crit with a non-lethal weapon but with a skill of 100/120? According to cleve it should be possible.

At least we know it works on lethal weapons.

Using 4d4 Bastard Sword (No lethal tag)

40 battles @ Skill 99, no crits
40 battles @ Skill 120, no crits.

Now, that could just be bad luck...but it appears you need the Skill AND a Lethal weapon.

Zep--

 

[Winslow]

Cleve also claims magic skills should increase with use even though it's evidently not the case. There's probably some logarithmic function to it which he forgot to tune properly, going by how he handled the music skill gain change.

 

[Zep Zepo]

So who doesn't get Lethal Blow?

I want to try and hack it onto a character that would never get it, give them a *lethal* weapon and see if they crit.

Zep--

 

[Rpguy]

So who doesn't get Lethal Blow?

I want to try and hack it onto a character that would never get it, give them a *lethal* weapon and see if they crit.

Zep--

Warrior , all pure casters, thief...

 

[Zep Zepo]

So who doesn't get Lethal Blow?

I want to try and hack it onto a character that would never get it, give them a *lethal* weapon and see if they crit.

Zep--

Warrior , all pure casters, thief...

So, Human Warrior? I'll test that in the AM.

Zep--

 

[mondblut]

Can you create a male drake metalsmith and check if the lethal blow skill flag is on or off? I saw someone complain about it and I have the same issue.

Interesting that you ask. I have a male drake metalsmith in my party (running since 1.02 or 01 even), and he does have lethal blow. However, I don't remember it ever rising from use. My berserkers and ranger maxed it forever ago, and the smith it stuck at 38, only raising it on levelups.

Yeah that is the problem, the skill is there but I don't think it is active, did you ever see your metalsmith perform a lethal blow?

Now that you say it... not sure. He was using a blunt weapon, maybe that was the case.

 

[Zep Zepo]

So who doesn't get Lethal Blow?

I want to try and hack it onto a character that would never get it, give them a *lethal* weapon and see if they crit.

Zep--

Warrior , all pure casters, thief...

So, Human Warrior? I'll test that in the AM.

Zep--

So decided to test this before I went to sleep.

40 kills each. Human Warrior

Lethal Weapon (No Lethal Blow Skill)
No Crits. But Swordsmanship went up like a MF.
Sad Panda.

Then

Lethal Weapon, 85 Lethal Blow Skill (hacked in)
I would say about 30-45% crits. (crit kills)
HOWEVER, Lethal Blow skill did not raise once. Stayed at 85.

So, you can hack in a skill, and it does work (it crit kills), but you can't raise the hacked skill by use.

And, there ya go.

Zep--

 

[Rpguy]

I did some extensive testings on my own without any hacking.

Metalsmith with non-lethal weapon + skill = no crits.
Metalsmith with lethal weapon + skill = crits ( not that rare either )
Warrior with no skill + lethal weapon = no crits.

Now we need to check if hand to hand combat is considered a lethal weapon or not ( I think Cleve tested this a lot and this is why he mistakenly thinks lethal blow works without lethal weapon )

 

[Rpguy]

Zep can you bump all characters in the party to speed 100 and see if the casters still cast their spells last in combat after monsters and player do melee attack?

 

[Brood_Star]

I did some extensive testings on my own without any hacking.

Metalsmith with non-lethal weapon + skill = no crits.
Metalsmith with lethal weapon + skill = crits ( not that rare either )
Warrior with no skill + lethal weapon = no crits.

Now we need to check if hand to hand combat is considered a lethal weapon or not ( I think Cleve tested this a lot and this is why he mistakenly thinks lethal blow works without lethal weapon )

I've been using three hth with lethal blows in my own playthrough, and they've never activated. Cleve/STEAM forums say otherwise, but...

Casters still move last with 100 speed

 

[Cardinal Ape]

I wouldn't doubt if hand-to-hand criticals are governed by a different skill other then Lethal Blow. Maybe Ninjitsu or Powerstrike. Perhaps even Iron Hands.

There doesn't seem to be description of the Iron Hands skill in the wiki; Anyone know what it does? It apparently can be learned from a terminal in the Sanctuary start. Can it only be learned with that start location?

I'm looking to make a Naga thief into a hand to hand assassin, it sounds like the Iron Hands skill could be vital for a hand-to-hand build, but I am unsure. Do I have to start in Sanctuary to get access to this skill?

Also, are there any other skills that can only be obtained through training besides Firearms and Iron Hands?

Thanks.

 

[Grimlorn]

Zep can you bump all characters in the party to speed 100 and see if the casters still cast their spells last in combat after monsters and player do melee attack?

Taking warriors speed down to 10 and casters up to 100 would probably be a better test. If all are 100 then warriors will go first. You can work from there if casters do somehow go first, but wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[gestalt11]

Zep can you bump all characters in the party to speed 100 and see if the casters still cast their spells last in combat after monsters and player do melee attack?

Taking warriors speed down to 10 and casters up to 100 would probably be a better test. If all are 100 then warriors will go first. You can work from there if casters do somehow go first, but wouldn't hold my breath.

At same speed you go in party order I am pretty certain.

 

[Zep Zepo]

Working on Unlocking Skills in DECLINE

Got 5 Skills I don't know which category to set them too.

1-Martial 2-Physical 3-Mental

Astralvision
Deflection
Iajitsu
Meditation
Firearms

Anyone know?

Zep--

 

[gestalt11]

Working on Unlocking Skills in DECLINE

Got 5 Skills I don't know which category to set them too.

1-Martial 2-Physical 3-Mental

Astralvision
Deflection
Iajitsu
Meditation
Firearms

Anyone know?

Zep--

Firearms is mental I believe. At least that is what happened when I used Sanctuary terminal.

 

[Brood_Star]

I wouldn't doubt if hand-to-hand criticals are governed by a different skill other then Lethal Blow. Maybe Ninjitsu or Powerstrike. Perhaps even Iron Hands.

I am almost positive that Iron Hands (which IS Powerstrike) just increases damage in HTH. They still don't activate lethal blows.

Decline uses "Powerstrike" because that's what it was seemingly called in the superdemo.

 

[Zep Zepo]

Decline uses "Powerstrike" because that's what it was seemingly called in the superdemo.

Ahhh, thanks for that, I'll correct it in the editor.

Zep--