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GUI and Colors

Discussion in 'Iron Tower Studio' started by vazquez595654, Aug 13, 2006.

  1. Claw Erudite Patron

    Claw
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    There always has to be a diverging opinion, does it? Dammit, where is the Hive Mindâ„¢ when you need it?
     
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  2. Faustus Novice

    Faustus
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    Okay, last one...

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. GhanBuriGhan Erudite

    GhanBuriGhan
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    While I liked it for the character sheet, I think its too visually distracting for the dialogue screen.
     
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  4. John Yossarian Cipher

    John Yossarian
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    I agree with GBG. There is just too much stuff going on. Also I liked the first background better (the one with more colors), maybe someone can try putting the entire stat gui on that one and see how it looks.
     
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  5. vazquez595654 Arbiter

    vazquez595654
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    Hmm. Maybe this would require too much work, but how about having custom backgrounds for wherever you were talking. For example a generic background for dialogue inside a building, outside in the wilderness, inside a city, so on. Than you could customize them in a way that would be easy on the eyes. For example by not having any complex part of drawing behind the main dialogue areas. And the drawings wouldn't have to be as complex as the ones being used in the previous examples (just have some object that lends some atmosphere/descpription to where you are. For example, maybe a picture of an antique wooden shelf with some books on it to convey the fact that your in a bookstore. Again nothing too complex or overbearing since the focus is on the dialogue.
     
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  6. Crichton Prophet

    Crichton
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    There's already a picture of that bookstore available, it's called the gameworld. All we need is a smaller gui and some some space management and we can be reading the dialog without having the world reduced to two conversationalists' heads.
     
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  7. Faustus Novice

    Faustus
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    Yeah, I agree that this particular background doesn't work for the dialog screen (the image directly behind the text in particular is indeed distracting ) I think it could use something else and it would be fine.
     
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  8. Fryjar Augur

    Fryjar
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  9. John Yossarian Cipher

    John Yossarian
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    @Fryjar
    The images displayed at first, but I cant see them now.
     
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  10. Fryjar Augur

    Fryjar
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    Alright, now it it's fixed.
     
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  11. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
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    We will, just to see how it looks. When we have some time.

    Edit:

    Hmm... not bad at all. Thanks.
     
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  12. vazquez595654 Arbiter

    vazquez595654
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    told you

     
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  13. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
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    A picture is worth a thousand words, aint it?

    Edit: Hmm, sounds like a Bethesda slogan.
     
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  14. galsiah Erudite

    galsiah
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    Perhaps you're right, but as I said before, I think the impression created is more important than the visual appeal.

    If a transition to a separate screen makes dialogue and dialogue choices feel more significant to the player, then I think that's a good thing - even if it interrupts the flow.

    I don't think the dialogue presentation in PS:T was at all bad, but I probably preferred Fallout's.


    Actually VD, how often would you say the player is likely to be talking to a few characters in the same room / small area in quick succession?
    If this situation is likely to be common, repeated gameworld->dialogue->gameworld... transitions might get in the way (since the player's objective is "talk to people around here" rather than "talk to X").

    Will less relevant NPCs have Fallout-style one-line on-screen responses, or does talking to anyone go to the dialogue screen?

    If it's always the dialogue screen, then I think Crichton is right.

    In PS:T there was much more of a feel that no NPC was a filler, as compared with Fallout. One reason for this was keeping the dialogue interface the same for them all.

    If PS:T had gone to a separate dialogue screen for every conversation, I think it would have broken up the flow unnecessarily.

    Note that I played PS:T for the first time a few months ago, and had no problem with looking at dated graphics with the dialogue. The point isn't to emphasize the look of the game world, but rather to maintain the flow of the player's experience.

    If the dialogue screen is only for the most important characters, then I think a separate screen is the way to go.
     
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  15. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

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    Not very often. If there are several "generic" people, like several guards, you'd have a conversation with several people at once. Something like:

    "You make small talk with the town guards. There isn't a lot of traffic these days, so the guards are bored and grateful for the company. Turns out the guards' captain had recently lost more than he can afford to in a game of chance; the guards are underpaid (you note that you've never met anyone who thought he's being overpaid); the Imperial Guards are pretentious bastards; and all women are whores. Strangely enough the last statement is based on the fact that those women were less than enthusiastic about sharing the guards' beds.

    1. So, did the captain pay his debt?
    2. I can't believe that the guards who risk their lives to protect us all are underpaid! That is the real crime.
    3. What do the Imperial Guards do around here anyway?"
     
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  16. galsiah Erudite

    galsiah
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    That's quite a nice approach - I don't recall seeing it before. Is my lack of memory/experience showing, or is it an all-new revolutionary Iron Tower next-gen thing?
     
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  17. Claw Erudite Patron

    Claw
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    Well, I do think some games used something like that, mainly Adventures. Couple of guards at a door come to mind. You talk to one, the other interjects. Groups of pirates in Monkey Island.
     
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  18. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
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    Don't recall seeing it before, but it's hardly a feature worth mentioning. I wrote a dialogue sequence, but it was kinda uninteresting. You start a conversation, ask some questions looking for some angle, etc. It takes about 7-8 linear clicks before you learn something that you can use (to present a believable and natural conversation and avoid lame "hay guards, tell me rumars!" scenarios). It wasn't bad, it added some flavor, but linear, long-ish sequences tend to be a pain in the ass when you replay a game, so I decided to replace the sequences with an overview of the conversation. If you replay the game, you don't waste any time going through the same stuff, and just pick a different option and see what happens.
     
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  19. galsiah Erudite

    galsiah
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    Oh indeed - it's nothing to dance and sing about.
    It is a nice detail though I think, since it means less clicking as you say. Also it gets past the problem of those guards being filler NPCs with nothing to say. Given that what they say is described rather than stated, it's easy to think that they might have said quite a bit - just that much of it wasn't too interesting to your character.

    How do you handle things when the player keeps talking to the same guys? Do you get the same line? Does it adapt according to what was said before? If they have nothing more to say, does anything change on their end of the conversation?

    For instance, if you find out about the captain's debt and persue whatever quest that leads to (if any), is there any change to the initial dialogue / your options / their responses? [No specifics necessary - it'd just be nice to get an idea what kind of thing will change.]

    For example, Is there a switch to something like "You don't find out anything new" after you've covered the options?

    Clearly it'd be nice for every little action / previous conversation to make a difference, but I realize that's impractical.
     
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  20. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

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    It depends. The same small talk won't be repeated. It's either "the guards are busy at the moment" or some acknowledgements of what you've done (option 1 or 2 only): "Any shipments tonight? I can use some money" or "The gate is wide open for you. Captain's order."

    There is. See the scripting thread.

    Yes, see above.

    Not really.
     
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  21. Fryjar Augur

    Fryjar
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    I have another question regarding the dialogue screen. Do you really want and have to keep this 3/4 background 1/4 game image subdivision?
    In my opinion, there is simply too much bland and unneccessary space that simply doesn't look all that appealing.
    So why don't we try a 1/2 1/2 division? It would slightly resemble the Torment dialogue screen, albeit giving the text slightly more space on the screen.
    If you are willing to reconsider this design, then I would maybe try to illustrate the idea with a first concept.

    Edt: In this case, you would need of course the infamous "continue.." button, since not all the dialogue would fit on one screen. But honestly, maybe this trade off is worth it...
     
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  22. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
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    We need the space both for what NPCs have to say and PC's responses. Here are some examples:

    NPC text
    http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/album_ ... ic_id=1654
    http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/album_ ... ic_id=1653
    http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/album_ ... ic_id=1645
    http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/album_ ... ic_id=1644

    PC responses
    http://newspics.rpgdot.com/imageview.ph ... ucius3.jpg
    http://newspics.rpgdot.com/imageview.ph ... Linos2.jpg
    (These screens have older design)

    I'm willing to reconsider a lot of things, but can't promise anything. I'd like to see your concept though, so if you have time...

    We already have it. See the NMA screens.
     
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  23. Claw Erudite Patron

    Claw
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    I've got another question, too.

    Do you intend to keep the gold display like that? It looks odd floating in the window like that and doesn't really fit into the overal design imo.
    I think it would look better right in the corner with a border around it.
    Also, do you think it needs to be featured so "prominently"? Maybe you could move it to where it doesn't take up valuable space, like the lower right corner of the dialogue area.


    PS:

    I am a bit surprised people keep asking for a larger view of the gameworld. I liked the talking heads in Fallout, did everyone else hate them because you couldn't see the gameworld? :?
    Maybe the view window could be increased slightly, but I can't see how any drastic change would work well, since it would necessarily take away space for the dialogue, which I feel is needed given the examples. I don't want to hit "Continue" several times to read a single monologue.
    Another way to tie the dialogue into the gameworld more may be to let the player see the gameworld though the empty area currently forming a border around the dialogue window, i.e. the dialogue window would be a - large - window floating over the gameworld, more akin to the dialogue screens you used in the 2D version of AoD iirc.
    It's not something I desire myself, though.
     
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  24. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
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    Agree. We'll move it.
     
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  25. Paranoid Jack Scholar

    Paranoid Jack
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    I like the old design better myself. Less frame looks better to me plus the dialog and responses are lined up with a slightly larger image for the two have the conversation. Though it appears you have less room for NPC dialog unless the picture and divider(bar) come down when a larger NPC dialog is required. The old design is just easier on the eye with less borders in my opinion. Just curious, why did you decide to change it?
     
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