Incline Guilty Gear Thread - Xrd SIGN released on Steam

[wergle]

At first I was like "3D? Unreal Engine? Dohohoho, get out". But that video looks great.

I think this video was made specifically because '3D' triggers that kind of response in anyone even remotely familiar with the series. I was mentally prepared to shoot myself in the twenty second window between when I was told GG3 used Unreal tech and when I actually saw the trailer.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

It's actually a damn shame Capcom (or some other big publisher) didn't just make a huge announcement for a lot more crappy looking (and enormously more expensive) fighting game. So much lulz was had when KoF XII was revealed after Street Fighter 4 (with glorious shoops of bulgy eyed reaction shots courtesy SF4 models).

 

[Whisky]

Wow. I read 3D and before I could even scream in despair, I saw the video. They seem to know what they're doing.

So, Unreal Engine games don't really have any excuse for looking like the same shit anymore, do they?

 

[Gozma]

I saw this without knowing it was gonna be 3D, so the bit where they do a 360 around the swordclash was wat

Very canny marketing

Gonna be in East Asian arcades a long time before any weeaboo can play I assume.

 

[Machocruz]

KoF 13 is awesome by the way. Could use more characters, to bring it closer to '98, which is the pinnacle of the series imo.

Wish we could get a real good Samurai Shodown and new Rival Schools during this supposed incline of fighting.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

KoF 13 is awesome by the way. Could use more characters, to bring it closer to '98, which is the pinnacle of the series imo.

Wish we could get a real good Samurai Shodown and new Rival Schools during this supposed incline of fighting.

Well, I figure the reason for no Samurai Shodown is that SNK just doesn't have the resources to focus on anything except KoF (and games about feeling up schoolgirl witches), which is a damn shame because as you mentioned KoF XIII is easily among the very best fighting games ever made.

I saw this without knowing it was gonna be 3D, so the bit where they do a 360 around the swordclash was wat

Very canny marketing

Gonna be in East Asian arcades a long time before any weeaboo can play I assume.

Probably a lot of that depends on how much ArcSys wants to put into the home release version, though luckily once it's finished it usually doesn't take THAT long for Atlus to translate and publish outside of glorious Nippon.

 

[Gozma]

Fighting Games and SHMUPS, the most monocle genres in the world, untainted by decline.
In fact quite the opposite: made for more and more hardcore audiences, bigger, better, more complex, more beautiful, more snappy.

I know fighting game people would bitch about that

A lot of the traditions come from the arcade business model where a hardcore fan might end up putting in like 5-6 times the price of a console version of the game into his favorite over the course of its lifetime as a competitive game. So it was worth it to give a shit about those guys in a direct way, above and beyond the current internet climate where they want their superfans to be viral marketers. Arcades are almost completely gone in the west and they're declining even in East Asia, and the "hardcore premium" they used to get out of the biggest fans of their game via arcades now goes to... arcade stick manufacturers. Kind of a dangerous time for the genre and on consoles they still mostly have to sell them as bait-and-switch AAA games to people that would never scratch the surface of Championship Edition, much less some shit with 10 different resource bars

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Fighting Games and SHMUPS, the most monocle genres in the world, untainted by decline.
In fact quite the opposite: made for more and more hardcore audiences, bigger, better, more complex, more beautiful, more snappy.

I know fighting game people would bitch about that

A lot of the traditions come from the arcade business model where a hardcore fan might end up putting in like 5-6 times the price of a console version of the game into his favorite over the course of its lifetime as a competitive game. So it was worth it to give a shit about those guys in a direct way, above and beyond the current internet climate where they want their superfans to be viral marketers. Arcades are almost completely gone in the west and they're declining even in East Asia, and the "hardcore premium" they used to get out of the biggest fans of their game via arcades now goes to... arcade stick manufacturers. Kind of a dangerous time for the genre and on consoles they still mostly have to sell them as bait-and-switch AAA games to people that would never scratch the surface of Championship Edition, much less some shit with 10 different resource bars

Fighting games do not have this problem in the same manner as most other genres do. They've always been firmly footed in "easy to learn, ass-bustingly difficult to master" position. When designing a fighting game, the goal is always two-fold in this respects: Make the game accessible and enjoyable at a reasonable level that satisfies ordinary fans of the genre, secondly make it have increasingly complex mechanics and optional elements to the gameplay that it satisfies the grognard types who want to figure out 100% combos that require microsecond accuracy.

This is also something that 2D fighting games of traditional design excel at. Due to avoiding focus in pre-canned combos and instead using the limited input variation of special moves and supers, the game presents a system that makes it easy for newcomers to experiment and enjoy the basic level of gameplay, as the emphasis is on UNDERSTANDING the game and the different capabilities of each character, not in memorization.


It also bears mention that neither SNK nor ArcSys compete in the AAA market. ArcSys never got that big, and SNK's days as a serious competitor for Capcom are long gone. The only real AAA properties in fighting games today are Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, now that Namco's down to being A or AA at best after having it increasingly rough with each Tekken and Soul Calibur this generation (and those hacks deserved every bit of it).

PS: And the arcades stopped being a real thing for fighting games around Street Fighter 3. Home market is where the money is at, arcades are more like open beta testing and East Asian curios nowadays.

 

[Gozma]

Negative, there was a gigantic amount of money being made with the card gimmick thing in both Tekken 5/6 and SF4, like hundreds of millions of dollars. The arcade money was a very real thing that recently.

Edit - Yeah, they held back the console releases for TTT2, T6, and SF4 for an entire year from the arcade versions. That shit ain't curio status. OTOH SSF4 Arcade Edition was only held back 6-7 months so maybe that demonstrates the trajectory.

 

[RK47]

more solky yaoi fanfic incoming

 

[Lagole Gon]

Looks amazing.
Too bad I don't tolerate unapologetic weeboo overdose in GG series. FFS, character selection screen is a tranny gallery.

 

[wergle]

Too bad I don't tolerate unapologetic weeboo overdose in GG series. FFS, character selection screen is a tranny gallery.

I actually tolerate GG more because it's so over the top. It doesn't take itself seriously at all and avoids much of the typical kawaii uguu bullshit most games from Japan peddle in. It's ridiculous and stupid, yeah, but not in a way that's actively trying to appeal to 15 year old girls. Shit, one character is a dumb weaboo American who wants to be a ninja but can't speak a word of Japanese.

I mean, I care primarily about the gameplay, but this is one of the few series whose gameplay and presentation both work equally well. And that's not even mentioning the soundtrack.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

There's an actual tranny in the roster too.

 

[Jasede]

If you're talking about... him he's just out to prove his masculinity.

 

[wergle]

Hints in the trailer suggest this new one takes place after the abomination that was GG2, so maybe we'll see grownup Bridget sporting a full beard

 

[Clockwork Knight]

If you're talking about... him he's just out to prove his masculinity.

In a dress / chair boy shorts combo. Would it kill him to find something else to wear?

 

[Valestein]

Mah waifu Baiken better be in this.

 

[wergle]

You better believe the roster will be trimmed for this shit, but I'm honestly not sure who ought to be cut first. Order Sol and ABA? Baiken should be pretty safe since she's a well-liked character design that's been around since the series' inception.

Considering the size of GG's roster there really aren't many shitty, extraneous characters to cut. Almost everyone feels unique and purposeful. Anji and Axl are the only old guard characters I can think of that don't quite fit in the current lineup.

 

[RK47]

Are you talking about role or gameplay mechanics? Cause those 2 are pretty unique.

 

[Gozma]

What are the motions in GG? As in, QCFs/DPs/regular Capcom shit, or weird stuff? Also, what are the dash inputs? My regular grip is completely terrible for repetitive F,F/B,B motions. I tried to play Sasquatch in Darkstalkers and I felt like I had Parkinsons

 

[Hellraiser]

I think they were fairly standard capcom-derivative. But I haven't played GGXX ever since my brother sold his PS2 a few years back. Bah.

 

[wergle]

What are the motions in GG? As in, QCFs/DPs/regular Capcom shit, or weird stuff? Also, what are the dash inputs? My regular grip is completely terrible for repetitive F,F/B,B motions. I tried to play Sasquatch in Darkstalkers and I felt like I had Parkinsons

Almost all inputs are QCF/QCB/HCF/HCB/DP/RDP. Some characters have a charged special or two, but most don't. Dash is, as you said, 66/44.

The only truly weird input I can think of is Dizzy's crazy overdrive grab attack thing, which is down-forward, HCF, back, forward + hard slash

 

[e-mailio estevez]

It also bears mention that neither SNK nor ArcSys compete in the AAA market. ArcSys never got that big, and SNK's days as a serious competitor for Capcom are long gone. The only real AAA properties in fighting games today are Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, now that Namco's down to being A or AA at best after having it increasingly rough with each Tekken and Soul Calibur this generation (and those hacks deserved every bit of it).

To be honest I think SC5 is my favorite fighting game this gen. Between some really nice netcode, easily readable fighting mechanics, reasonable execution requirements and a great custom character creator that really allowed people to showcase their creativity, it had imo the best online play for a FG to date. SC5's netcode is better than any other fighting game I've played and a vast improvement over SC4. Even the lobbies were done admirably well. And I really can't state enough how great the character creator was and how it really kept the online play fresh.Iit was a lot more satisfying to fight someone's rendition of Geralt of Rivia or a zombified Hitler than Ryu, Ken or Wesker for the 1000th time. I was able to recreate an X-Com Chrysalid compliete with a zombified, green ooze drooling human 2nd form. SC5 is goddamned great and I will defend it till the end. It is really a shame that it didn't sell better.

It did have flaws. It is obvious the game was missing features and probably rushed out the door. I read somewhere that the final released had something like 20% of the planned single player content. And single-player modes like Edge Master Mode were a bit of a series trademark. There were also some characters like Zasalamel oddly absent, I'm guessing due to time or budget restraints. And yet dumb shit like Algol or Viola was still allowed to exist. My personal grievance with the game as mainly a Cassandra player was that I didn't really care for the time skip. They axed a bunch of classic characters in favor of their children or young apprentices, who played similiarly but not quite the same, while staples like Mitsurugi and Voldo got a pass. Just thought it was kind of unfair to people maining the cut characters, and frankly none of the new additions were half as likeable as the originals. No, I don't want to play a 16 year old version of a character I've been playing for damn near a decade


...

Uh, anyways yes GG looks very good. The 2D makes SF4's goofy potato men pale in comparison. I'll be keeping an eye on it, but not sure if I'll pull the trigger when it comes out. The only ArcSys game I ever played personally was P4:Arena and I couldn't do shit in that game. I had something like a 70%+ win rate in Marvel and SF4, but couldn't even do reliiable supers in Persona. I'm guessing ArcSys games must have less input leniency than Capcom games, and I doubt I could hack it.

 

[Gozma]

Marvel actually has pretty strict inputs. It's SF4 that lets you do incredibly weird slop inputs (like forward back forward gives you a RDP for some reason). Of course, when top players play it they end up using every weird input shortcut for something, so it ends up being like kara cancels and negative edge* - a feature that was intended to make the game easier to play gets exploited for its special behavior at high level.

*a kara cancel is when you cancel the first couple of frames of a normal into a special move, and a negative edge is the system where you actually get another button input when you RELEASE a button, and the release input is treated in a special way. These systems were put in to make specials like a fireball easier. For example, you can do a QCF+fierce and hit the fierce a little early before you hit the forward direction, which would make a crouch fierce come out, which "normally" should ruin the fireball attempt. But if you actually release the button after the forward input, completing a QCF+fierce, the crouch fierce will be cancelled very early in the animation and a fireball comes out.

But then in high level play stuff like that gets massively exploited. Like for example in ST you throw just by hitting a button + a direction. The throw attempt happens on the first frame after the input; if the throw attempt fails the normal for the button you pressed comes out. This leads to shit like being able to attempt a throw in one frame and then kara cancel the throw-whiff normal into an invincible dragon punch, meaning for the defending player if you block you get thrown, if you do anything with less invincibility you get DP'd, and you have only one frame of gameplay to try to make anything else happen.

 

[Volrath]

Looks great.

Now just give me CapcomVsSNK 3 and I can die a happy man.