GW discovers price inelasticity: stock drops 24%

[Stereotypical Villain]

Original Warhammer was always better than 40k... Not that I bothered to check if they fucked that up too, mind you! Please say it isn't so...

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

They did. 8th edition is an irredeemable pile of steaming shit.

 

[Ulminati]

W40K was declining since 2nd (maybe 3rd) edition. WHFB has been in freefall since 4th ed.

We make a point to grab the PDFs whenever a new version is released, get together and drink in unision whenever we come across a newly introduced retardation.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Wh40k was declining since they introduced Chaos.

 

[Irenaeus]

I picked up WH40K last year from the Codex, had vaguely heard of it beofre, and quite enjoyed. So it's funny to see all this talk about decline. In any case, I just read the 6th edition core book that I bought through Amazon and read some more about the fluff (like all RPG books) in the internet. Love this stuff. Most of all, I love the Inquisition, obviously, purging heretics comes naturally to me.

 

[groke]

There's no reason at all for anyone to get into GW products anymore; the miniatures are plastic crap, the rules have been lame tailor-list bullshit since 1997 and the settings (both 40k and WHFB) have already been explored to death. All that's left now is MONSTOROS CABALRY and Mat Ward's turgid cock in 40k's cold, dead anus. And a thousand 13-to-30-year-old children screaming for their power-armoured crack cocaine.

INSTEAD, you could just pick and choose your rules (from the decades of solid tabletop rulesets available) and support the amateur retailers selling fresh castings of fantastic old figures for dirt cheap. If you (like so many poorly afflicted individuals) can only get your dick up for blood-for-the-blood-god-40k, then just get a hold of the old Rogue Trader books, since the setting is practically unchanged since Realm of Chaos, they just switched focus to their retarded gang of identikit 'special characters'.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

INSTEAD, you could just pick and choose your rules (from the decades of solid tabletop rulesets available) and support the amateur retailers selling fresh castings of fantastic old figures for dirt cheap. If you (like so many poorly afflicted individuals) can only get your dick up for blood-for-the-blood-god-40k, then just get a hold of the old Rogue Trader books, since the setting is practically unchanged since Realm of Chaos, they just switched focus to their retarded gang of identikit 'special characters'.

Realms of Chaos are extremely expensive. Rogue Trader has entered the realm of collectors-only.

 

[Spectacle]

INSTEAD, you could just pick and choose your rules (from the decades of solid tabletop rulesets available) and support the amateur retailers selling fresh castings of fantastic old figures for dirt cheap. If you (like so many poorly afflicted individuals) can only get your dick up for blood-for-the-blood-god-40k, then just get a hold of the old Rogue Trader books, since the setting is practically unchanged since Realm of Chaos, they just switched focus to their retarded gang of identikit 'special characters'.

Realms of Chaos are extremely expensive. Rogue Trader has entered the realm of collectors-only.

Sounds to me like groke is advocating piracy of both game books and miniatures....

 

[Irenaeus]

Not piracy, "rogue trading"...

 

[Ulminati]

Good thing I have a complete set of Rogue Trader and Realm of Chaos books in good condition sitting on my shelf. Picked them up for ~€5 on a flea market years ago

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Speaking of competition...
http://theionage.com/
This one can be interesting. I don't know what mechanics are like, though.

 

[groke]

While I'm perfectly happy to guide people to sailing the seven seas, I was actually sincerely suggesting people get the real deal. RoC aren't that expensive unless you pay eBay prices. Even then, Slaves to Darkness sells for around $75 with relative frequency (for comparison, the current hard-cover Chaos codex costs $50 and has well-under half the content). Lost and the Damned is expensive, but it's also comparatively shit, so no huge loss. I bought a copy of Rogue Trader for $30 a couple of years ago, the Ork books are maybe a bit rarer (but absolutely amazing).

As for miniatures, I do mean fresh castings, not recasts. The reproduction rights for a lot of great minis from companies like Grenadier, Heritage and Tabletop Miniatures have fallen through a lot of hands since the 80's, and many of them are being actively (and legally) produced for prices that make me feel guilty. Not to mention the number of old hands from Citadel that have produced fantastic stuff independently; Olley Miniatures (Bob Olley, though it's a bit hard to find miniature ranges that don't have an Olley amongst them), Asgard (Jes Goodwin), Wargames Foundry (Perry Bros., hundreds of them from the old Citadel range).

There's even quite a few lumps of lead knocked out by the Mighty, Dark-Winged, Avenging Lord of Chaos, Bryan Ansell, himself. I'm not even scratching the surface here.


But, I mean, if this:

is what you're into, then that's what you're into.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

As for miniatures, I do mean fresh castings, not recasts.

Have you tried playing Laserburn?

 

[groke]

As for miniatures, I do mean fresh castings, not recasts.

Have you tried playing Laserburn?

Not Laserburn proper, but I've tried the 'Imperial Commander' book once or twice (which seems like a much simplified version), it's... a lot of fun in a kitschy, amateur pnp kind of way, but it's a really amateur effort; there's all sorts of weirdness to the rules, diagrams that are half unlabelled or contradict the written rules, incredibly vague wording all over the place, changes in metrics used (how many centimetres is a 'metre'??) stacking modifiers for all sorts of nonsense (heroes are untouchable monsters).

Most units have jump-packs but jump-packs are hilariously unreliable in anything but open terrain (if you try to hop over terrain there is a considerable chance that a quarter of your unit will break their necks), it's clearly focused on skirmishes between a handful of units, but the global morale system has all units start legging it when the entire army fall under half strength, snipers have a kind of exploding dice mechanic that lets them clean up whole units per turn, the cover system is quite literally a proto-popamole. Combat uses a weird, linear system so there isn't a mechanical difference between weapons and armour (having a weapon vs. not having a weapon is +6, wearing dreadnought armour is also +6), you can bring down fortifications with a flamethrower immediately killing all occupants etc. etc. etc.

It's a fun oddity, and it certainly carries the zeitgeist of a teenager in Thatcher-era Britain DM-ing a Judge Dredd skirmish with his friends. I wouldn't play it for anything but the novelty, RT has more zany variety, but is also a lot more consistent.

edit: the minis are lovely, though!

 

[Zed]

I don't think I will ever understand Warhammer. Everybody does their own shit with it. I've seen huge battlefields with several armies, I've seen tournament kids go head to head with smaller armies on what seems to be pretty plain battlefields. Rules seem nonexistent, extremely inconsistent or just really weird.

For most people it seems to be all about either collecting and painting figures, or reading shitty fiction. I barely see people actually playing it.

I mean looking at these pictures
https://www.google.se/search?q=warh...bT7AaR6oD4Dg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=977
How do you determine what you can actually do? Do you use rulers? "You may move 5 cms" or what? How do you determine turns? Do you destroy environments or what's the purpose of walls?

 

[groke]

I don't think I will ever understand Warhammer. Everybody does their own shit with it. I've seen huge battlefields with several armies, I've seen tournament kids go head to head with smaller armies on what seems to be pretty plain battlefields. Rules seem nonexistent, extremely inconsistent or just really weird.

For most people it seems to be all about either collecting and painting figures, or reading shitty fiction. I barely see people actually playing it.

I mean looking at these pictures
https://www.google.se/search?q=warhammer battlefield&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=vu8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=YE3xUvC8M8bT7AaR6oD4Dg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=977
How do you determine what you can actually do? Do you use rulers? "You may move 5 cms" or what? How do you determine turns? Do you destroy environments or what's the purpose of walls?

Go to Bolter & Chainsword and post incessantly in threads for people to tell what the BEST ARMY EVAR is until someone unloads a flavour-of-the-month min-maxxed atrocity, then complain at your parents until they drop a grand on buying every item on said army list. Then halfassedly glue the army together, go to a tourney with your unpainted grey hordes, lose repeatedly while screaming abuse at your opponents and calling an organiser over every 5 minutes to aggressively defend your flawed interpretation of the rules, go home, hock the army on ebay, and wait for the next Space Marine codex (i.e. 4 months) to start the cycle again.

Now you're Warhammering like a pro!!

 

[Mangoose]

I don't think I will ever understand Warhammer. Everybody does their own shit with it. I've seen huge battlefields with several armies, I've seen tournament kids go head to head with smaller armies on what seems to be pretty plain battlefields. Rules seem nonexistent, extremely inconsistent or just really weird.

For most people it seems to be all about either collecting and painting figures, or reading shitty fiction. I barely see people actually playing it.

I mean looking at these pictures
https://www.google.se/search?q=warhammer battlefield&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=vu8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=YE3xUvC8M8bT7AaR6oD4Dg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=977
How do you determine what you can actually do? Do you use rulers? "You may move 5 cms" or what? How do you determine turns? Do you destroy environments or what's the purpose of walls?

Go to Bolter & Chainsword and post incessantly in threads for people to tell what the BEST ARMY EVAR is until someone unloads a flavour-of-the-month min-maxxed atrocity, then complain at your parents until they drop a grand on buying every item on said army list. Then halfassedly glue the army together, go to a tourney with your unpainted grey hordes, lose repeatedly while screaming abuse at your opponents and calling an organiser over every 5 minutes to aggressively defend your flawed interpretation of the rules, go home, hock the army on ebay, and wait for the next Space Marine codex (i.e. 4 months) to start the cycle again.

Now you're Warhammering like a pro!!

 

[Haba]

Reported for heresy.

 

[Zed]

I actually have some Warhammer shit by the way.

Like everybody I know with any Warhammer stuff I just got it because it looked cool. I never painted it, or even assembled it, because it required glue (I think) and undercoat, which I did not have.

Spoiler

Cool dude riding tit-snake, yeah.

I also have a starter painting kit. There were some shitty-looking archers included.

 

[Dreaad]

Mordheim was quite fun for a while. Though like all GW crap, balance of any kind is non-existent. I personally think it's due to the teribad stats system with a variation of 1-10 for all variables, of which they don't even use 7-10. Kind of hamstrings the options. I suppose the simplicity is what makes it popular, well that and the way the descriptions for everything tailor to everyone's dreams.... much like horoscopes in a newspaper.

 

[Fangshi]

I wonder how Black Library is doing, tho? They churn out tons of new stuff every year, most of it bad (though not all) and it seems to hit the top 25 reading lists quite often around the world.

From what I remember from the annual reports both Black Library and Forge World still make a good healthy profit. Hell, Forge World sales have increased as the price of the mainline stuff is starting to exceed resin prices in some regions. It is getting to the point where it is cheaper to buy the resin than the hard plastic kits.

 

[kazgar]

Probably should try to sell off all my unpainted mini's from 15 years ago sooner rather than later if its going to hell in a handbasket.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

itz funny cuz it would take GW to go out of business and their mini lines discontinued to justify the collector prices they're asking for them nowadays

I wonder how Black Library is doing, tho? They churn out tons of new stuff every year, most of it bad (though not all) and it seems to hit the top 25 reading lists quite often around the world.

From what I remember, it's Black Library who's keeping GW alive.

 

[Ulminati]

I mean looking at these pictures
https://www.google.se/search?q=warhammer battlefield&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=vu8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=YE3xUvC8M8bT7AaR6oD4Dg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=977
How do you determine what you can actually do?

You read the rulebook, crappy as it may be. You declare your move, you declare your targets for spellcasting/ranged combat/melee combat, you roll the dice and take your chances.

Do you use rulers? "You may move 5 cms" or what?

Rulers or measuring tape. In fantasy you're usually moving regiments, so all the units are in a tray you move about. In 40k you move units individually, although most people will only measure the legal distance for a couple of units, then move the res tof the squad up in cohesion.

How do you determine turns?

Dice roll at the start of the match. You actvate all your units in any order you fancy, then he activates all of his. Goes back and forth until the game ends.

Do you destroy environments or what's the purpose of walls?

In fantasy they are obstacles for your regiments to navigate around and block line of sight for archers, mages and the like. Some terrain may be difficult ground (hinders movement) or defensive positions (gives you a penalty if you're charging/shooting at a unit inside it).
In 40k, cover also grants a saving throw against incoming fire. Depending on what army you're playing, this may or may not be a big deal. Spave marines are usually better off relying on their 3+ power armor save unless they're being shot at by antitank weaponry. (Although if they are, then they can still use a cover save in lieu of their armor save).


I'm not saying the rules are good or anything (they have been getting progressively shittier over the last 20 years). But if 8 year olds can wrap their heads around them, why can't you?

 

[Storyfag]

I don't think I will ever understand Warhammer. Everybody does their own shit with it. I've seen huge battlefields with several armies, I've seen tournament kids go head to head with smaller armies on what seems to be pretty plain battlefields. Rules seem nonexistent, extremely inconsistent or just really weird.

For most people it seems to be all about either collecting and painting figures, or reading shitty fiction. I barely see people actually playing it.

I mean looking at these pictures
https://www.google.se/search?q=warhammer battlefield&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=vu8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=YE3xUvC8M8bT7AaR6oD4Dg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=977
How do you determine what you can actually do? Do you use rulers? "You may move 5 cms" or what? How do you determine turns? Do you destroy environments or what's the purpose of walls?

RTFM Or do you need a quest compass for that?