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Hearts of Iron 4 - The Ultimate WWII Strategy Game

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by GarfunkeL, Jan 23, 2014.

  1. thesheeep Arcane Patron

    thesheeep
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    The problem is how much the latter invalidates the first.
    As soon as a certain year rolls over and everyone gets the best piercing, all tanks become extremely expensive glass cannons and I don't really think that's very useful to most countries.
    The high damage doesn't offset the fact that they crumble the moment some random infantry division with piercing (which in late game means every division, probably even horses and bikes) sneezes at them.

    Until then, I agree, but I'm just not convinced those maybe 3 years or so of true advantage from armor is worth the investment over just ignoring tanks completely (except light ones I guess, for circling?).

    Btw. that's one of the things that seem to be much better in Old World Blues. Don't think I've seen any robots there (kind of the tank equivalent) ever being faced with lots of piercing.
     
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  2. Malakal Arcane

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    MP is often modded but in HORST I haven't seen anyone use strat bombers for other reasons than maybe trolling enemies (put 500 over an air zone, bomb a bit, move them when they send fighters, repeat). Also usually fighters rather than heavy fighters but depends on area you want to use them (Pacific war heavy fighters are obviously better since airfields are far in between).
     
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  3. Bigg Boss Arcane

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    Is it worth buying this to play the Fallout mod?
     
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  4. Malakal Arcane

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    Probably for the same reason many groups limit submarines, its a micro game of whack-a-mole to change convoy routes and keep sending fighters where enemy is sending strat bombers...
     
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  5. Raghar Arcane

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    PIRATE THE SHIT OUT OF THIS GAME. And send them letter they should made either game that's not about WWII, or simulate loses of civilian population as well.
     
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  6. Bigg Boss Arcane

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    I don't trust pirates.
     
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  7. Raghar Arcane

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    Also I tried la resistance DLC and it sucks. When you are playing low tech countries that don't have even civ factories to make intelligence agency, you know fuck all what certain big countries around doing. And then you are fucked.
     
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  8. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

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    Infantry Breakthrough is so low that they won't catch up even later on. The combined arms tank division succeeds on the offensive because of the high Breakthrough stat that leaves infantry taking more hits. In lategame you also probs have the industry to absorb material losses (further reduced by high Reliability from Maintenance Companies, a must for any tank division). My take is usually that the proportion of tank brigades in the army rises in direct relation to IC.

    With tanks, the question is really a matter of how much industry you can set aside specifically for them. The tank+motorized/mechanized divisions are the units that can hammer through and thanks to constantly rising speed are able to improve and improve at overruning enemy divisions even without encircling. Motorized on its own while easier on the IC and material requirements (I'd actually say that the biggest consideration in choosing between Medium and Heavy Tank for the second tank division type is material surpluses on Tungsten and Chromium, rather than their armor and speed) but doesn't match up to having tanks thrown in.

    Pure tank division is a total waste obviously, you need at least 50% motorized or mechanized (or cavalry, if you're using heavy tanks) to meatshield the tanks (and to make them able to defend anything).
     
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  9. thesheeep Arcane Patron

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    Since I mostly play small-mid sized countries, the answer is generally "not a lot". :lol:
     
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  10. Malakal Arcane

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    Self propelled artillery has the highest soft attacks in the game combined with good mobility and solid armor, a combined arms tank-self propelled-mechanized division will absolutely slaughter infantry, especially under air support. Also you need some kind of infantry (mech or mot) to have any kind of org.

    Once you achieve a strategic breakthrough with your tank divisions you just race around enemy lines and encircle them, that is the basic of both modern warfare and HoI4 warfare.
     
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  11. Alexios Savant Patron

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    If it's on sale sure.
     
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  12. AwesomeButton Personally falsified the US election results Patron

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    How should I spread my divisions within armies? Is it worth it to group all my tank divisions for one theather in one army?
     
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  13. shywn Learned

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    Yes. Not only dedicate an army for them, but dedicate a field marshal for them. Tanks are meant for pushing. They're the only unit in the game that have good breakthrough. (Special forces come second.)

    You don't have the Walking the Tiger expansion, do you?

    I really like support companies, but you have too many of them. Each one you add reduces your division's organisation. Remember that only infantry, motorised infantry, and cavalry add organisation, everything else reduces it.

    1. Drop the artillery since you already have two line artillery.
    2. You don't need both anti-air and anti-tank. Do you have air superiority? If yes, drop anti-air. If no, drop the anti-tank.
    3. Engineers are almost always worth adding.
    4. I don't know about your light tank recon. I don't have the La Resistance expansion yet, but I understand that there are other, cheaper recon options available. (On second though, maybe you should keep it, because it seems to be the only thing providing breakthrough stat for your division.)

    This doesn't look too bad, but drop the artillery support.

    Looks all right although I don't get why you're mixing heavy and medium tanks.
     
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  14. AwesomeButton Personally falsified the US election results Patron

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    I have all of them, so yes.

    I was going by the logic that any mixing of tanks into the infantry division would be good because it would add hard attack and breakthrough.

    I know it's inefficient, but I did it for "immershun".

    I don't get the rule that everything except INF and MOT should decrease organisation. I understand the gamey reasoning but it's quite counter-intuitive. Also, the player is already paying a resources price and a command mana price for including those support companies and alternative brigades, why make him pay an organisation price for making a more versatile division.
     
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  15. shywn Learned

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    Then you must be playing on non-historical. Germany shouldn't be able to call Japan in. They're in different factions.

    Yes, I had pretty good success strolling through the continental US with a 12/4/2 inf/art/light tank division in my Japan game. And indeed, I do recommend adding tanks to infantry divisions if you must push with them.

    Yeah, it doesn't make much sense to me either that an anti-air attachment or field hospital decreases organisation, but that's the way it is...

    One more thing I forgot to mention. I've recently been gravitating away from artillery in general. It uses an awful lot of supply.
     
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  16. AwesomeButton Personally falsified the US election results Patron

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    No, I was on historical and ironman, but I justified the war on Germany and then I started it. I think Germany was already allied with Japan at that point. I can check.

    My current game is non-ironman because I want to make a pre-war savegame and experiment a little with different army composistions, different front widths for armies and more/less microing them around.

    Putting all the tanks in the same army group sounds immershun-breaking, but I also figured that then the best general/marshal bonuses would appy to all the divisions. Feels like a hack though. In general, this game feels overall less historical than older HOIs. What was wrong with HQ units in HOI2 and I think HOI3.

    Can't comment on that yet, not enough experience in major-on-major wars .
     
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  17. Agame Arcane Patron

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    The spy system is completely superfluous and you can happily ignore it even with majors.
     
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  18. Malakal Arcane

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    Not in a real competitive environment where intel on what your enemy is researching, what forces is he building and a combat bonus that can be triggered are very important.
     
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  19. Agame Arcane Patron

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    Ok, sure if your talking multiplayer? Single player it is irrelevant. And in multiplayer a Minor country should not be able to compete with a Major anyway, and will rely on larger allies to cover that.
     
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  20. AwesomeButton Personally falsified the US election results Patron

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    The fact that a division with no artillery and 40 width is better at defending a tile than a division with some artillery is pure Swedish inbdreeding- or cultural enrichment-induced retardation. How can having towed artillery make you more offensive? As if artillery hasn't been used defensively. Stupid game.

     
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  21. Raghar Arcane

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    This is old video. And they increase attack power when they add more artillery brigades to division. Before artillery was nerfed, it was important to kill enemy soldiers.
     
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  22. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    That video was made by a retard. 750 defense has absolutely zero advantage over 250 defense unless you are taking more than 250 attacks per hour (and against AI even 250 is pretty unlikely to take in reality, keep in mind you also have defensive bonuses and shit boosting you higher most of the time). Not having artillery means your enemies take significantly less damage, meaning they will fight you for much longer and inflict much more damage on you.

    The only thing that won him there was the defensive fortifications which are incredibly OP in HoI and the AI suicidally attacks into. But they make defense even more useless since the enemy probably has like 2 soft attack, so any unit at all would massacre endless germans.

    There's a lot of issues with HoI4 combat but that is not one of them. If anything its the other way around and infantry without artillery are too stupidly weak at dealing damage. Two pure infantry divisions can slug it out on open ground for weeks before they wear themselves out, its nuts.
     
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  23. Malakal Arcane

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    Yes but in SP you can win as Poland against Germany and Soviets with just infantry and artillery (as I did several times). So SP is awful for testing stuff and deciding what options available to you are good.
     
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  24. AwesomeButton Personally falsified the US election results Patron

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    In a new campaign, I've started practicing with 6 mountain divisions in the Spanish Civil War, which were sent as volunteers to help out Republican Spain.

    I managed to create one pocket where I killed 5 Nationalist divisions, but a little after that, the Anarchists of Aragon spawned, apparently it was invitable around the time of my last savegame, and took over Catalonia.

    My divisions had to be evacuated because if they are caught inside anarchist territory when the anarchist state spawns, they are completely cut from supply and escaping back into Republican territory becomes rather difficult.

    My impression now is that the Republicans are pretty much doomed whatever I attempt. There is a German volunteer tank division which no one on the Pyrenean peninsula can do anything about, unless it becomes completely encircled somehow. Nobody has hard attack. With that division its a matter of time the Nationalists take Madrid and from there the Republicans are in a downward spin.

    Has anyone managed to win the war for the Republicans with a volunteer force?
     
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  25. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

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    If you can send 6 mountain divisions, you should have sent 6 light tank divisions. The mountain terrain advantage is not enough compared to running the spearhead (you basically always want to run the spearhead when you send in volunteers).
     
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