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Hearts of Iron 4 - The Ultimate WWII Strategy Game

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by GarfunkeL, Jan 23, 2014.

  1. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    I swear there's gonna be yurt-rape if Sweden's national tree is bigger than Finland's.

    Anyway, dynamic forming of factions is awesome and has real potential for post-WW2 gameplay (the whole thing gives me a major whiff of an East vs West type of Cold War thing as the first major expansion DLC).
     
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  2. a Goat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

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    Insert Sweden YES jokes
     
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  3. Pirata Alma Negra Learned

    Pirata Alma Negra
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    WOW, Paradox will finally give up any pretense of historical accuracy.
     
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  4. a Goat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    a Goat
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    Don't get me wrong but good riddance that they do.

    I remember all that meta-play around EU2 where while playing some countries you've just waited for events giving you free stuff for nothing...
     
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  5. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    And in case of HoI, it was always a huge problem how the games couldn't handle major deviation from history very well, since the base sequence of events was so heavily ingrained in following the event/decision path. There's never been practically any sort of Post-War order established (in HoI3, not even a token attempt) and you might as well quit the game once Soviet Union or Germany beats the other. Kaiserreich is probably the best in this regard, but that's more a testament to the sheer number of event chains it has for multiple contingencies worldwide.
     
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  6. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Originally HoI3 was more openended but grognards disliked anything even slightly ahistorical (like, if Germany didn't declare war on Sept 1st 1939 it was a Bad Thing). Then Paradox retreated and scripted everything to happen on the right day, for France to always lose, etc.

    Will be interesting to see if they do so again. They already gave in on the counters.
     
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  7. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

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    Well thing is that HoI3 didn't have enough meat on its bones besides the war mechanics, so it did very poorly if Germany didn't go to war and France didn't always lose.
     
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  8. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Well I can take Germany always going to war, but having it scripted to go to war on sept 1st 1939 because muh historical accuracy always killed tension. Same with Germany always invading France in the same space of a few months, always making the same half-hearted sealion attempt, then always attacking the Soviets. HPP for HoI3 did a good job of giving the AI a handful of extra tools, where sometimes Germany would fight the Soviets before the Allies, sometimes Italy would stay neutral, sometimes Japan would attack the Soviets rather than USA, sometimes war would start early. Even if Germany can't beat France or never even fights the allies, there's always the Soviets to worry about if you are the UK/France/USA.

    Do you think HoI4 will be any better without hilariously ahistorical stuff like random Swedish superpowers out of nowhere? That stuff was basically impossible in HoI3 without extreme cheese, yet EU4 youtube noobs testing HoI4 were pulling it off in their first games.
     
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  9. GarfunkeL Racism Expert

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    They didn't give in on the counters. You still only have 3D models on the map. The only thing they caved was that you can use NATO symbols on the zoomed out counters instead of their helmet/tank symbols.

    Things can still go off-the rails, by the way, the odds are just against it. Czechs can deny München and start the war there. What Pdox changed was that diplomacy had less of an influence, so no more Nazi-USA by 1940.

    In other news, I applied to become a beta tester for HoI4. I probably won't get in due to my acidic comments on their forums.
     
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  10. Grimlorn Arcane

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    I don't see why they can't have both. Just have one that sticks close to the script like in HoI 3 and then have a more open ended custom one to play for people that want that. That's what I wanted anyways. After playing a couple games of HoI 3 it became boring because of how tedious it was and how you couldn't play as one of the random countries and have a good shot at affecting the war.
     
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  11. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

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    That's what the new system sounds to be trying to do, with most likely being that ai will choose factors are set to 100% for the historical path without player deviation changing the situation.
     
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  12. Pirata Alma Negra Learned

    Pirata Alma Negra
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    I remember a day a long time ago when Germany didn't declare war on me as USSR. Cause playing a WWII game without the WWII is so much fun.
     
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  13. XenomorphII Prophet

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    Had you built the red army up to a nasty/insane size? As I recall Germany won't suicide on them.

    It does suck (in a way, but it isn't like you cannot declare war anyway), but at the same time it is stupid for the ai to decide to declare war because of history when the reality of the situation could be utterly different (a USSR that would absolutely steamroll it for example, or had not shown such weakness in the Winter War).
     
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  14. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    USSR being forced to declare war on Germany does mean it also has to fight Japan. But if you're so strong that Germany won't attack you, you probably need the extra challenge.

    That said you can trick the AI to declare on you if you retreat your divisions back a few provinces so that it doesn't judge your strength too high.
     
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  15. a Goat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

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    Invade India through Afghanistan?
     
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  16. Spectacle Arcane Patron

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    Seems like some ahistorical gameplay is possible:
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. a Goat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    a Goat
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    :russia:
     
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  18. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

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    I think what's really needed in the long term is a pre-war and post-war (or should we say, pre-WW2/3 and post-WW2/3) situation where conflicts can instead be local or proxy conflicts, and the major conflict itself can for example build up from Idi Amin trying to conquer the world after conquering much of Africa and forming a third faction.
     
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  19. a Goat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

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    It would require certain elements that are not in HoI and were never mentioned in dev diaries.

    Dynamically-changing resource production(sometimes appearing in new places!) and VP's tied to industrial/resource(including leadership and MP) base of the province.
     
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  20. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

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    Given how much more developed the tech, economic, and political side of the game has been so far, I wouldn't be surprised if a Cold War expansion would also change this stuff as well. At least, I'd hope so. The bastard child of Victoria 2 and Hearts of Iron has always been my dream Paradox game.
     
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  21. skaraher Arbiter

    skaraher
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    It existed, it was called East vs West and they murdered it to make place for this monstrosity.
     
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  22. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

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    East vs West was hardly murdered, the correct term might either be euthanized but more likely simply autopsied or buried. Modders-to-devs mismanagement is what killed EvsW, not Pdox (personally I'd say the death knell was that they planned on including multiplayer when they clearly couldn't handle implementing it). Pdox still gave those guys more time and budget time after another, since they weren't delusional assholes like Ubik.
     
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  23. GarfunkeL Racism Expert

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    Yeah, feature creep and unrealistic planning killed EvsW. Shame really.

    Anyway, the different national focus trees that Pdox has showed do imply that ahistorical stuff will be quite possible - of course, it could be they are only available for the player.
     
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  24. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

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    It does need some kind of reaction tree or something on the side of the AI tho, or otherwise the system just doesn't add that much.
     
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  25. Pirata Alma Negra Learned

    Pirata Alma Negra
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    Not insane as I never was a excellent player and wasn't adept of gaming the system, but yeah, I got this explanation in the time. It's just that when I play a WWII game I would like to play the WWII, especially when the other option is sticking around doing nothing.
     
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