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Hearts of Iron 4 - The Ultimate WWII Strategy Game

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by GarfunkeL, Jan 23, 2014.

  1. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

    IHaveHugeNick
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    Yeah the problem with custom game states is that a lot of other stuff needs to line up for them to work, like civil war ending quickly or pacts running out.

    Anyway, Expert AI seems to have fixed things a bit, Soviets are still weaker then I'd like but they last until 1945 at least and sometimes much longer. Chondrite is a fucking hero.

    Of course all you really need to knock Allies out of the war is to build a doomstack of 1940-tier submarines and put them around UK and on the east and west coast of the US. They'll spend rest of the wars lacking convoys to even travel the sea. But cheese tactics I can at least avoid myself, whereas when AI factions are unbalanced that's much worse.
     
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  2. Life of the Party Arcane

    Life of the Party
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    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1665294477

     
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  3. Fedora Master Arcane Patron

    Fedora Master
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    Good idea, bad execution.
    Land Raiders during the Unification Wars.
    Any game set in that timeframe should be more Fallout than Warhams.
     
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  4. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    [​IMG]
    I wanted to have some proper ship design, so I tried this. That rotary multibarrel rapid fire 250 mm gun on the back is there as counterweight to prevent ship to stand on front. Also it's quite efficient to kill PT boats, and yes cruisers too.

    Evaluator says command is crap, and armor is crap.
     
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  5. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

    IHaveHugeNick
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    This game is such a ridiculous bullshit right now.

    I figured I'll see how I can do with Poland against the overbuffed Germany.

    I set up a line of level 2 forts behind two rivers in Warsaw, I built pure defensive army with 9 inf 1aa 1at divisions and I released eastern Ukraine as a free country so uncle Stalin doesn't fuck me from behind. And I calmly waited for 1939 to come.

    Well, 1939 indeed came. But nothing happened. Adolf himself came to have look at my defenses and his comment was: "Nein, can't touch this. Just surround them with 150 divisions and stand there pretending to look important."

    So they did.

    Meannhile my small but brave fleet of mine-laying submarines mined the fuck out of the entire Miditerrean, Italian fleet got wrecked. France doesn't fall and Western front is a stalemate. For 3 years, nothing happens. Meanwhile I was slowly building up two a 2 million army.

    Finally in mid 1942 finally Stalin gets bored sitting on his dick, so he attacks Germany.

    So now it's full power of UK, France, United States, Soviet Union, Poland, Belgium and Netherlands against Germany.

    Surely they get crushed now, you'd think?

    Haha, yeah right.

    It's been going like this for one ingame year and Germany has 300k loses total while all of major allies are in 1 million.

    :thisisfine:
     
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  6. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    I haven't tried minelayers yet myself, that's another thing that's basically a case of "why would you do this" and "why would you do anything but this" honestly, albeit a situation that could be rectified to an extent just by restricting the number of areas you can mine (so they benefit minors more than majors).

    Anyway, I'm still mostly just waiting for KR and FR to patch, played Old World Blues a bit (here the problem is that I feel the scenario is much more poorly balanced and offers far fewer interesting groups compared to the HoI2 mod, added points lost because faction system is stupid) which has improved to a degree, and gave a try to the new version of The Great War, it still has that problem that land doctrine tech rush supported by air units is the only way to go. Tried R56, but I just got pissed off with the faction system again and will probably have to restart a campaign if I care to. I suppose I should check out Cold War and Millenium Dawn again once they update. But honestly, I just wait for next patch of KR because that's the best way to play HoI4 without exception so far, with Fuhrerreich as a POSSIBLE second way to do it (since the last version was still fairly barebones in a lot of ways, but fundamentally KR's changes to several mechanics like factions and politics is just the best way to do things).

    I'm not entirely pleased with KR changing the Mongolian focus tree tho, it was fun trying to go apeshit with Ungern conquering left and right, making it "realistic" instead is boring. I've said it elsewhere and before, and I'll say it again, I don't care if you wanzers and Martians to KR, just as long as it makes the campaign more fun and varied and wild. Realism is shit.
     
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  7. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

    IHaveHugeNick
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    The most absurd thing about my story above, is that it isn't a historical WW2 Germany at peak of of its powers. This is 1938 Germany that only managed to occupy Czechoslovakia. They literally have like 1/5 of total Allied factories.

    And mines are pretty fun. It's good but not so overpowered where it could make everything else pointless. They just give a buff to allied fleet and debuff to enemy fleet I think. And ship designer is versatile enough that you can make a dedicated mining sumbarine fleet for cheap, or just put one mining slot on destroyer and still have them be useful for normal fleet engagement.
     
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  8. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    Given how cheap subs are, next time I should probably make mine subs instead of raider subs, or split between both functions.
     
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  9. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    Do fighting subs work? Looks like you can get obscenely high torpedo strength very cheaply and swarm enemies. I believe torpedoes ignore armor?
     
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  10. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

    IHaveHugeNick
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    That's what I do when playing minor countries. At the start of the game I put all shipyards on 1936 minelaying subs, then I switch to raider subs when I get the 1940-tier sub.

    By the time war starts I can completely mine 2-3 regions rather quickly and have a bunch of 1940 subs to run rampart in them.

    Mind you that is not necessarily a good strategy in all cases. Works wonders against Japan, Italy and keeping US boxed in on their continent. Against UK though, I found that total submarine warfare isn't a good idea. They still have still, tungsteen and aluminum so they just sit on their island and by the time you want to invade them they have 3 million divisions there. :P
     
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  11. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    Subs also reach a Dockyard breakeven point far faster than any other type of navy, so they can actually sustain losses rather than anyone who isn't rocking 100+ Dockyards with only a third of that, with a far lower tech footprint.

    It's sort of fucked up, but also kind of inevitable given the abstraction present.
     
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  12. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    Minelayers are awesome AI should use them extensively and become really hated by everyone. I tested naval combat extensively for about 3 weeks, just to see if I still can design better system.
    [​IMG]
    Year 50 and I finally had proper naval combat.

    Conclusion is they are unable to fight theirs way out of paper bag. If they simply left the old system, you would see carriers staying at distance, destroyers zipping at 45 kt to carriers, and if land based planes blew up these battleships or cruisers, they catch carrier and torpedo it. Sprinkled by occasional submarine torpedoing carrier, which while it was extraordinary rare to happen in pitched naval battle, the skill of admiral was sufficient to prepare submarines at line of retreat of enemy carrier.
    Instead they reduced naval combat into three rows, as if they are playing DoTA2. While it might be fine for physical card game, it's too simple for strategy game like HoI4.

    The funny is writing better naval combat abstraction is easily doable, and it will not create too many additional effort from player, because most of that stuff is transparent.

    But there is little problem HoI4 programmers have no clue about naval tactics. From my tests I found the best way how to engage enemy major fleet is attacking convoys in correct area, because they are likely in that area on escort mission with the whole fleet.

    Sending one lone destroyer to be terror of submarines until small task force sneaks on enemy destroyer and blow it up, or naval bombers would catch it, and kill it? Naw we are sending hordes of destroyers, which are missing in other sea zones.

    Carriers? Well, with 3 slot system it's about until second slot would fail which allows strike at carriers. Obviously this makes heavy ships much stronger.

    On the positive side, poor countries without navy can somehow try navy by sneaky submarine or destroyer attack. And the ship design system was step in the right direction. The abstract port system however allows submarine avoid dangerous sea zones between port and deep ocean, which makes submarines much less vulnerable. (Which would likely cause submarine nerf.)
     
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  13. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

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    Didn't take KR gang long to get that set-up after Paradox changed it that they're okay with modders selling merch and having Patreons or whatever (which doesn't surprise me at all given that you could essentially also sell HoI4 and its expansions specifically for playing HoI4's version of KR).
     
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  14. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

    IHaveHugeNick
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    Raghar

    When fighting against the Soviets I usually do a naval invasion through the Black Sea to take over the massive oil fields in Baku. In one of my games I walk in there and turns out the whole sea is a minefield. AI planted maximum 1000 mines. Gave me a laugh.
     
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  15. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

    IHaveHugeNick
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    There's a new patch out, 1.6.2.

    So I'm playing as Netherlands again, France has fallen again and I'm surrounded. Suddenly all the German units leave the front and I'm able to take back half of France and Germany with 40 divisions.

    I've used a console to see what AI Hitler is doing, and he has 400 divisions at the Soviet border while I am about to ride into Berlin.
     
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  16. Life of the Party Arcane

    Life of the Party
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    Tried Fuhrerreich.

    It's pretty fun but focus trees don't really need to be that massive with so many modifiers. Playing Germany I had around 25 national spirits and would probably get at least ten more before the end of the game, perhaps even end up in the 40s. That just feels bloated.

    I also don't see the need for Dressler. They could've just used Glauer himself. He was quite a character and lived quite a life.
     
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  17. Agame Arcane Patron

    Agame
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    The AI cannot into multiple front wars, this has been a problem since release...
     
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  18. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

    IHaveHugeNick
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    That's the point. It hasn't been this bad since release. I played a lot of saves with Czechoslovakia and German AI may have struggled prioritizing the 3 fronts with France, Czechoslovakia and Poland, but it could at least hold the fucking line and it would move back more units if you stepped into native German borders.

    With 1.6.2 it's just completely broken.
     
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  19. Agame Arcane Patron

    Agame
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    Yea I think they done borked the AI (possibly while trying to make it better?), one of the reasons Soviets were collapsing after MTG release is when at war with Germany they completely remove all troops from Romanian border, which is obviously a disaster when Romania joins the war... And also putting far to many troops on Jap border.
     
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  20. Trithne Augur

    Trithne
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    HoI4 KR devs are autistic as fuck. DH remains best version.
     
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  21. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    [​IMG]
    And this is why when Mexico declare on Honduras, which joined alliance where Australia is leader, you stay the fuck out of it.
     
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  22. Life of the Party Arcane

    Life of the Party
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    I tried Kaiserreich and to be honest I think I prefer Fuhrerreich. It runs better, it's less chaotic and it doesn't feel like a communist power fantasy.
     
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  23. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    Kaiserreich means you can't be fucked up by Tanu Tuva when you play as Japan. Right. Tanu Tuva why? I played as Japan quing declared independence and I nearly conquered it but then Tanu Tuva joined war on Quing side... Merely month later Tanu Tuva invited Russia.
     
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  24. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    Btw, the demo of The New Order mod is extremely promising.
     
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