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Here are some things that put me off vanilla JA2.

In My Safe Space
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Codex 2012
So, there's that oppressed country and these mercs go there by a helicopter to start a rebellion against an enemy army and what do they go with?
Pistols, shotguns, SMGs.
What the fuck?
It's like a medieval cRPG where starting weapons of everyone are slings and daggers and darts and clubs.
And then fighting against similarly equipped enemy forces.

After putting so much effort into a realistic system they take such a massive dump of realism.

Then what the fuck is going on with scale of the game? First, vision range. For fucks sake, Laser Squad in 1988 had vision range across whole map and it worked well.

Then the locations. Where are all these militias and soldiers coming from?

Yeah, so I stopped playing vanilla game and got back to it only when I there was moddable 1.13 version.
 
In My Safe Space
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Codex 2012
You discovered unwrittten rule of videogames. It's progress.
From zero to hero.
Zero could be AK-47 or something like that. Contrast it with BG1 where you start from zero but zero means generic weapons, while hero means magical versions of generic weapons.
 

Morkar Left

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That's when the powers of larping come into play. I just imagined they had their big equipment in a second chopper which got shot down. Or they couldn't smuggle more equipment and were promised more/better equipment when siding with the rebels (which went wrong because the village got stomped into the ground). Whatever.
 
In My Safe Space
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Codex 2012
What the fuck, who put it in strategy gaming? Just because a cRPG has decent systems, it doesn't mean it's a strategy game.

Should ID1 be counted as a strategy game because there isn't a protagonist whose death ends the game?

Should RPG manuals with detailed tables of henchmen and hirelings count as strategy games instead?
 
In My Safe Space
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Codex 2012
You discovered unwrittten rule of videogames. It's progress.
From zero to hero.
Zero could be AK-47 or something like that. Contrast it with BG1 where you start from zero but zero means generic weapons, while hero means magical versions of generic weapons.
Wouldn't a start with good weapons have made it easy?
No. Especially that enemy would start with Vietnam war era American firearms.
 

ERYFKRAD

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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
What the fuck, who put it in strategy gaming? Just because a cRPG has decent systems, it doesn't mean it's a strategy game.

Should ID1 be counted as a strategy game because there isn't a protagonist whose death ends the game?

Should RPG manuals with detailed tables of henchmen and hirelings count as strategy games instead?
I believe the argument here is "laptop guy has no stats". :lol:
 
Self-Ejected

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Please remove this game from the Codex top 50 RPG list so that newbies don't get confused.
 

Morkar Left

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JA2 is a full fledged rpg. If you don't agree you're retarded. :volourn:
 
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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
Dumping my post from the other thread for maximum attention:

Well, there are some things I hate about JA, the combat system is top-notch but I have a gripe with other things
-There is a shitload of mercenaries but most will not be seen. Since the beginning you have money to hire top-notch mercs (or at least one) so there is no reason to bother with them on your first playthrough. Which means most of the NPCs (who also consumed a lot of budget because of voice acting and shit) won't be seen by most players. I mean they made you work your way up from using shitty guns despite it making no fucking sesne, why no do this with mercenaries.
-Cities (which most players will see) are populated by a bunch of generics and 2-3 unique NPCs. Makes them feel a bit dull
-I think it may be because I play the game wrong but cities are underused. Instead of being entrenched in ambush-zones or something enemies just run to you after hearing one of them getting shot and will be killed one after another. Often reducing capturing a sector to sniping everyone from one spot
-Most enemies are just people with guns, replaced by people with better guns and better guns etc. Makes fighting them dull (not that the combat is dull by itself, but it's boring to see the same enemy over and over again). I mean sure it's a realistic game so they won't just throw hobgoblins with fireballs at you, but most realistic combat games are bigger in scale. There is artillery, mechanised infantry, heavy machine gunners, grenadiers, choppers medics, tanks (ok there are a few tanks, but only few), jeeps and shit. Here there are just people who will sometime use a grenade or a LAW.
-Managing your mercenaries is a pain in the ass. They will have less stamina if they are tired but won't go to sleep if they are not tired, synchronising them is pointlessly tedious. Can't they just get some pills or shit?
-Also. Not enough unique encounters and quests. Fighting bug queen and Mike was great. Everything in between? Not really.

I like it after seeing another bunch of dudes I often though "I wish I was playing Incubation".
 

Grimwulf

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Dumping my post from the other thread for maximum attention:

Well, there are some things I hate about JA, the combat system is top-notch but I have a gripe with other things
-There is a shitload of mercenaries but most will not be seen. Since the beginning you have money to hire top-notch mercs (or at least one) so there is no reason to bother with them on your first playthrough. Which means most of the NPCs (who also consumed a lot of budget because of voice acting and shit) won't be seen by most players. I mean they made you work your way up from using shitty guns despite it making no fucking sesne, why no do this with mercenaries.
-Cities (which most players will see) are populated by a bunch of generics and 2-3 unique NPCs. Makes them feel a bit dull
-I think it may be because I play the game wrong but cities are underused. Instead of being entrenched in ambush-zones or something enemies just run to you after hearing one of them getting shot and will be killed one after another. Often reducing capturing a sector to sniping everyone from one spot
-Most enemies are just people with guns, replaced by people with better guns and better guns etc. Makes fighting them dull (not that the combat is dull by itself, but it's boring to see the same enemy over and over again). I mean sure it's a realistic game so they won't just throw hobgoblins with fireballs at you, but most realistic combat games are bigger in scale. There is artillery, mechanised infantry, heavy machine gunners, grenadiers, choppers medics, tanks (ok there are a few tanks, but only few), jeeps and shit. Here there are just people who will sometime use a grenade or a LAW.
-Managing your mercenaries is a pain in the ass. They will have less stamina if they are tired but won't go to sleep if they are not tired, synchronising them is pointlessly tedious. Can't they just get some pills or shit?
-Also. Not enough unique encounters and quests. Fighting bug queen and Mike was great. Everything in between? Not really.

I like it after seeing another bunch of dudes I often though "I wish I was playing Incubation".

You should really try out 1.13 in expert and iron man. Every encounter will feel unique. You'll never get bored.
 
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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
Grimwulf
Thanks, but I'm not looking for a more challenging game, just a more varied one so I doubt that going expert and ironman would enchance the experience. Will try 1.13 after finishing my current playthrough though.
 
In My Safe Space
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-Most enemies are just people with guns, replaced by people with better guns and better guns etc. Makes fighting them dull (not that the combat is dull by itself, but it's boring to see the same enemy over and over again). I mean sure it's a realistic game so they won't just throw hobgoblins with fireballs at you, but most realistic combat games are bigger in scale. There is artillery, mechanised infantry, heavy machine gunners, grenadiers, choppers medics, tanks (ok there are a few tanks, but only few), jeeps and shit. Here there are just people who will sometime use a grenade or a LAW.
I think it's more a question of the game overstaying its welcome.
 

Johannes

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Dumping my post from the other thread for maximum attention:

Well, there are some things I hate about JA, the combat system is top-notch but I have a gripe with other things
-There is a shitload of mercenaries but most will not be seen. Since the beginning you have money to hire top-notch mercs (or at least one) so there is no reason to bother with them on your first playthrough. Which means most of the NPCs (who also consumed a lot of budget because of voice acting and shit) won't be seen by most players. I mean they made you work your way up from using shitty guns despite it making no fucking sesne, why no do this with mercenaries.
-Cities (which most players will see) are populated by a bunch of generics and 2-3 unique NPCs. Makes them feel a bit dull
-I think it may be because I play the game wrong but cities are underused. Instead of being entrenched in ambush-zones or something enemies just run to you after hearing one of them getting shot and will be killed one after another. Often reducing capturing a sector to sniping everyone from one spot
-Most enemies are just people with guns, replaced by people with better guns and better guns etc. Makes fighting them dull (not that the combat is dull by itself, but it's boring to see the same enemy over and over again). I mean sure it's a realistic game so they won't just throw hobgoblins with fireballs at you, but most realistic combat games are bigger in scale. There is artillery, mechanised infantry, heavy machine gunners, grenadiers, choppers medics, tanks (ok there are a few tanks, but only few), jeeps and shit. Here there are just people who will sometime use a grenade or a LAW.
-Managing your mercenaries is a pain in the ass. They will have less stamina if they are tired but won't go to sleep if they are not tired, synchronising them is pointlessly tedious. Can't they just get some pills or shit?
-Also. Not enough unique encounters and quests. Fighting bug queen and Mike was great. Everything in between? Not really.

I like it after seeing another bunch of dudes I often though "I wish I was playing Incubation".

You should really try out 1.13 in expert and iron man. Every encounter will feel unique. You'll never get bored.
No, fights'll still be humans with guns all the way, even if there's more grenade launchers and the like involved. The game really suffers from not having more varied encounters where different approaches would be forced. JA2 combat is satisfying but does get old relatively fast due to the sameyness of it all.

I don't really get why you specifically mention fighting Mike btw, Gangrelrumbler - he's just another random guy in every way beyond having that small convo.
 

laclongquan

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Posting in an Awor thread

Also, biting the troll bait!

What the fuck do you expect? newly arrived force must choose the softest place to land, not at the central training camp of the regular army. Militia garrison of course only have pistol and Chinese AK. After the Queen send out her counter attack, or when you assaul harder palaces like the SAM sites, or southern towns, is when you have better equipped enemies.

IF they allow enemies scaled with level, and have the first battle full of enemies carrying CAWS or FNFAL, I would scream to high heaven. The intelligence prepared prior to arrivals suck ass in that case.
 

Alienman

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Well they had to fly over there. So it would be easier to hide pistols under the coat then a big ak47 :P
 

Commissar Draco

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Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Man with laptop didn't striked me as big merc company like Darkwater which is Kwan gray ops affiliated with goverment so can tot their machine guns in open and 30K zionbucks you got in Prague won't buy you lot of high grade weapons anyway so I guess this start equipment is all you can buy on black market and smuggle thru customs.
 

Johannes

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He's right, of course it's ridiculous that anyone would try, much less be succesful, in overthrowing a country with 30k bucks of funding with mercenaries that bring their own weapons. It's all right to shrug your shoulders and proceed to whack the bastards with what you got, most RPG's have even more ridiculous economies after all, but what's the point in arguing or larping that it somehow all makes perfect sense?
 

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