Incline Heretic Shadow of the serpent riders

[Beans00]

Please listen to this music while you read this thread.


So being born in the early 90s, some of my first memories of playing games was watching my dad play different retro FPS. Doom 1/2, Strife, Quake, duke 3d, ROTT and of course Heretic. My dad used to throw on god mode in these games and I would run around killing stuff having a great time. Eventually I did play and beat most of these games legitimately.

A few months ago I played a few boomer shooters with a friend in co op. He's a few years younger than me so his FPS games really started with halo/cod/fear/half life 2 ect.

We played

Doom, which held up very well except for episode 4 which can blow me
doom 2, which was fine except for the city levels
duke 3d, which again held up pretty well
quake, where we enjoyed episode 1,3, and we thought episode 2,4 were dogshit, the expansions were also dogshit
quake 2, which we hated(it was way worse than I remember it being lol)

All that being said, my personal favorite boomer shooter(aside from strife which doesn't work in co op) was Heretic. To my surprise my friend ended up sharing the same opinion(I expected him to like doom the most).

A lot of people dismiss the game purely as a doom clone, which it kind of is. I think it has great weapons, solid level design. Not too easy but not too complex(at least until episode 4-5). Some maps definitely have a few too many enemies, and the dragon claw definitely sounds annoying.




The biggest thing I loved about heretic was the atmosphere and art design. It existed in a time/place where 3D games weren't necessarily looking for realism. Instead they seemed to embrace their otherworldly-ness. I don't know if I'm crazy or anyone else feels that way. I love the gothic medieval setting, to be it feels like diablo 1, or castlevania 4 in a good way.

I love the Ui in this game. Loaded with style and personality.

The sequel Hexen also has great atmosphere but I find it too confusing to play. I beat that game following walkthroughs and guides and never looked at it again. Hexen 2 is an overall better experience IMO. Heretic 2 is also a great, and forgotten third person shooter.





What are your thoughts on Heretic?




Also Tacgnol recommended me a heretic total conversion a year or so ago. https://www.doomworld.com/vb/thread/117375 . The faithless trilogy. It plays a lot like hexen(and even adds in a few hexen weapons). Great fun.

 

[Darth Roxor]

The biggest thing I loved about heretic was the atmosphere and art design. It existed in a time/place where 3D games weren't necessarily looking for realism. Instead they seemed to embrace their otherworldly-ness. I don't know if I'm crazy or anyone else feels that way.

Nah, it's legit. I'm pretty sure the devs were huge DND nerds and wanted their games to resemble DND as they imagined it. It's even more obvious with Hexen.

 

[Lemming42]

It's one of my favourite games, I like it a lot more than Doom too. The level design quality is a lot better than Doom IMO and I have no idea how the inverse of that became the common opinion; E2 and E3 of Heretic are incredibly strong while Doom's E2 and E3 sort of go to shit.

The atmosphere Heretic creates is just incredible, and I love the story too; being one of the last survivors of a genocide and just deciding "well, fuck everything" and setting out into the twisted ruins of your own homeworld in a suicide mission to try and find the one responsible. The third episode's setting amazed me as a kid, this huge undersea dome full of strange aqueducts, opulent tiled rooms, and a vast water system that constantly drags you along with it.

There were a few games in the mid 90s that absolutely nailed the very essence of dark fantasy, and Heretic was one of them alongside Hexen, Arena, Daggerfall, and Anvil of Dawn. It's never left my mind in the nearly 30 years since since I first played it. And yeah, what really gives these games the edge is the way they dip into otherworldliness, as you say, a vivid sense of nightmarish surrealism - visuals and ideas like the ice castle surrounded by a moat of lava in E2, or the Iron Liches who (if I remember the manual correctly) are long-dead mages piloting giant mechanical skulls, and act as the generals of D'Sparil's army.

I recommend playing Heretic with the Wayfarer's Tome mod btw, it alters weapon damage values to make everything a lot smoother.

 

[Tacgnol]

Yeah, it's a shame Heretic didn't get more mods/map packs made. The faithless trilogy (that Beans linked) was good though, it has three hub based episodes that revolve around exploring large hubs with some new weapons and monsters.

 

[octavius]

Yeah, Heretic was great, but not quite as good as Doom.

 

[luj1]

Heretic was a simple game, but I loved it. It's essentially a Doom reskin. The music was awesome.

 

[Beans00]

Also, I would say Doom 1/2,strife and quake, and of course hexen also embrace the otherworldly-ness I'm talking about. For late 90s Unreal definitely had it aswell.

It makes these games a lot easier to still play and enjoy today.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

E2 and E3 of Heretic are incredibly strong while Doom's E2 and E3 sort of go to shit.

Wait, what? Who said that?

I quite like E2 of Doom myself, because of the Military Base/Hell aesthetic juxtaposition.

I also like E3 because it has bigger, more open maps which are different from E1 and E2 maps,

 

[NecroLord]

Great game and classic shooter.
Those who say it is merely a "Doom clone" are fucking retarded and need to have their heads checked.

 

[Gandalf]

Heretic, Hexen and Witchhaven. Heck yeah, I remember those.

 

[Lemming42]

Wait, what? Who said that?

Me, mainly.

When I replay Doom nowadays I always lose interest partway through E2. I really like the aesthetic too but the actual maps take a big dive in quality from E1. E3 is a little better but it still feels a bit disappointing after E1.

 

[NecroLord]

Heretic, Hexen and Witchhaven. Heck yeah, I remember those.

Hexen is one of the most unique shooters.
Truly one of a kind.
Rpg elements. Atmosphere. Traps. Puzzles.
Great game.

 

[luj1]

Great game and classic shooter.
Those who say it is merely a "Doom clone" are fucking retarded and need to have their heads checked.

No one is saying it's not a classic shooter mate. It's essentially a fantasy reskin of Doom. Every weapon is analogous to a specific weapon from Doom (e.g. Necromancer's Gauntlets = Chainsaw). Likewise, the level design is classic Doom. The gameplay is nothing crazy, classic switch chaser (like Doom).

 

[NecroLord]

Great game and classic shooter.
Those who say it is merely a "Doom clone" are fucking retarded and need to have their heads checked.

No one is saying it's not a classic shooter mate. It's essentially a fantasy reskin of Doom. Every weapon is analogous to a specific weapon from Doom (e.g. Necromancer's Gauntlets = Chainsaw). Likewise, the level design is classic Doom. The gameplay is nothing crazy, classic switch chaser (like Doom).

Well, yeah, it is a Doom Engine game.

 

[luj1]

Hexen is a quantum leap from Heretic.

The gameplay is vastly expanded and more difficult. It features hub-based level design with improved verticality and symmetry, as well as puzzles.

 

[NecroLord]

Hexen is its own beast.
A shame we never got more games like it.
Dark fantasy shooters.

 

[Lemming42]

Heretic has the inventory system which is a big step up over Doom. Save up your Ring of Invulnerability and Tome of Power and then just turn bosses into a joke, muahaha.

The kind of game Raven were trying to make back then is really fascinating because they never quite seemed to get exactly what they wanted, despite making some superb games in the process. You can see as early as ShadowCaster that they really wanted to figure out some kind of fusion between FPS games, adventure games, and cRPGs, and they almost did.

 

[luj1]

Dark fantasy shooters.

I liked Undying (2001)

 

[luj1]

some kind of fusion between FPS games, adventure games, and cRPGs

I'd play the shit out of that

 

[anvi]

So being born in the early 90s

But srsly, I love Heretic. Gaming back then felt like it could do anything.

 

[Beans00]

So being born in the early 90s

But srsly, I love Heretic. Gaming back then felt like it could do anything.

Why would I care about being born in the 90s? lol


If anything it's better than being some old doofus who spent his teenage or young adult years playing everquest.

 

[anvi]

You missed out and played that lame flash game instead :/

 

[Beans00]

You missed out and played that lame flash game instead :/

Runescape was much better than everquest, and is still going strong today as the 2nd biggest western mmo(I last played it like 12-13 years ago). Runescape had a vibrant pvp, and gambling(staking) community.


Everquest peaked at like 400k subs, mostly because it was the 3rd mmo. The game was designed around autistic people spending thousands of hours killing bats and skeletons lol. It's been dead since like 2003.

 

[anvi]

Fake news ^ It is dead though.

 

[Beans00]

Fake news ^ It is dead though.

Runescape still has like 2 million subs today, everquest has like 1500. Dead since like 2004 lol.