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KickStarter Himeko Sutori, tactical JRPG, 100+ unit armies

Perkel

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expecting an rpg player to not minmax is unrealistic. squeezing out that 1% more efficiency is the norm for us, and every mechanic will be pushed to its limits.

Streamlining equipment by being able to buy weapons and armor in bulk and setting units to auto upgrade based on highest equipment stat would make life easier.

Or more like weapons and armor should be worn by classes instead of singular units.
Or mixed system where above is happening but there is still way to get that rat armor +5 on someone you want.

Maybe instead of straight buy/sell shop you should look more in direction of allowing player to make new weapons and armor via new sidequest or getting to know some blacksmith and securing some resource line (maybe clearing it from monsters ?)

Example:

There is short cutscene where you commander talk with local blacksmits which says that he could have provide his serive for money but you need to first secure some resource line because he doesn't have much resources to properly keep batalion equipment in check.

You do this sidemission and you get access to iron armors for your soldiers. So your knights could now wear something more fitting their class than just leather armor or plain clothes.

Similar situation later, you reach new town or whateve and you meat some artisan that could work for you if you provide him with money and again some materials line.

Buying single armor for game where you can have 20-30+ characters seems way to tedious if you want to personally outfit your soldiers.

This could also be a good way to provide further customization to your soldiers. For example next battle will be on dunes or in snowy area so if you soldiers will use metal armors they will quickly loose are their stamina/mana points or it will take them longer to regenerate where if you can outfit them with appropriate but worse gear they will do far better in battle.
Same with other elements, lava, etc.
 

Nathaniel3W

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Sooo clooooose to finished! The most recent major development was saving and loading game progress. That's done now. But it's not very exciting to watch. So I held off on updates until I had something more to show. I finally got rid of the selection cylinder and replaced it with the pulsing square. I have some messages to show whose turn it is, coats of arms to show which squad goes in which army (and you can import custom coats of arms using the Himeko Sutori Campaign Builder), XP and level-ups integrated into the game, and more. I still need to work on the combat GUI some more.

The last major system I have to implement is leadership: Manage your squad leaders to maximize the number of characters in a squad and the bonuses they get.

And here are some of the shields I made (and you'll be able to make a lot more with just a few clicks) using resources in the campaign builder:
HS_Shields.jpg
 

Mr. Pink

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.


Sooo clooooose to finished! The most recent major development was saving and loading game progress. That's done now. But it's not very exciting to watch. So I held off on updates until I had something more to show. I finally got rid of the selection cylinder and replaced it with the pulsing square. I have some messages to show whose turn it is, coats of arms to show which squad goes in which army (and you can import custom coats of arms using the Himeko Sutori Campaign Builder), XP and level-ups integrated into the game, and more. I still need to work on the combat GUI some more.

The last major system I have to implement is leadership: Manage your squad leaders to maximize the number of characters in a squad and the bonuses they get.

And here are some of the shields I made (and you'll be able to make a lot more with just a few clicks) using resources in the campaign builder:
HS_Shields.jpg

Those are some nice shields.
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The game looks really promising and honestly impressive looking for a one man game!
 

Nathaniel3W

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Thanks very much guys. Mr. Pink I'll probably be giving away the Photoshop file I used to make those shields so that everyone can make their own. Jimmious thanks. The game has gotten so big I often forget how something worked when I have to go back and work on it some more. But at least when my Kickstarter finishes, I'll have someone else to do the music and art for me.

Kickstarter, did I say? Yes, I did. I have a new trailer up too! It features music by the amazing Kevin Won and I can't believe I was lucky enough to work with him.



We're going to be launching tomorrow. Thanks everyone for all the input you've given me. I haven't made all the changes I need to make, and I haven't added all the features I want to have. But the game is at a playable alpha stage now. And I think we have enough to take to Kickstarter. I'll post the address of the Kickstarter campaign after I launch it tomorrow. Thanks again for sticking with me through this, giving me pointers, criticism, and encouragement. I think we're going to have much better success this time around.
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
You have my dollur
:hero:
*Seriously, this looks beautiful. Im impressed!
** Shouldn't the KS Video have some narration? It's quite common. Like we're these guys and we're doing this etc
 
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Perkel

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You have my dollur
:hero:
*Seriously, this looks beautiful. Im impressed!
** Shouldn't the KS Video have some narration? It's quite common. Like we're these guys and we're doing this etc

This is good point.

BTW great music ! Great work on ui
 

Nathaniel3W

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You have my dollur
:hero:
*Seriously, this looks beautiful. Im impressed!
** Shouldn't the KS Video have some narration? It's quite common. Like we're these guys and we're doing this etc

The game has come a long way, and it took a lot of work to get here. I owe a lot to Shane, my pixel artist.

As for a voiceover, I considered it, but that music was just too beautiful for me to cover up. I think I'll probably do another video in addition to the trailer soon as a way of introducing myself better.

And Crooked Bee Perkel thanks very much guys. And yeah, I couldn't believe what a great job Kevin did with the music.

The Kickstarter is up now: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1682757416/himeko-sutori-a-turn-based-tactical-japanese-style Thanks very much for all of your support.

Edit: And here's a quick update. Kevin just sent me a new version of the song. So the video on the Kickstarter page has a different (even better, if that's possible) version. This guy is amazing. He's going to be the next Nobuo Uematsu, Yoko Shimomura, and Hitashi Sakimoto. Amazing. Go check out the new version of the track.
 
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Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
You're already over the 50% mark.... Tell us what your stretch goals will be :D
 

Nathaniel3W

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Most of that is coming from close friends and family so far. We definitely need to broaden our reach to start hitting stretch goals. But tonight I'm throwing a Kickstarter launch party and hopefully that will bring in a little more. As for stretch goals (and I'm really hoping we hit some of these), this is what we have planned so far:

At $20,000 we're releasing a mod editor so that anyone can make and share campaigns.

At $30,000 I'm going to make three more environments: Snow, desert, and dungeon. Each setting will also have new music and new enemies.

At $45,000 Kevin is going to record at least 30 minutes of the soundtrack with AIR Studios. Check out their "previous clients" page to get an idea of how lucky we would be to work with them.

Beyond that, I'm really not sure. I have some ideas of what I would like to do, but planning and discussing that far out might be unwise at this point. If we could hit those first three stretch goals I would be unbelievably thrilled.
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I'm also one of the friends and family :)
I would suggest contacting some other tactical JRPG kickstarters out there to give you a shout out. Arcadian Atlas, Children of the Zodiarcs come to mind.
Wish you luck!

*Also Regalia - Of Men And Monarchs
 

Ninjerk

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I told the AA girl to try reaching out to Brian Fargo, J.Sawyer, etc. I think they're known for supporting some of these kinds of projects.
 

Nathaniel3W

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Jimmious you're definitely one of the family now. Anytime you're in the DC area, look me up.

And those are some good ideas guys. I'll reach out to them. There's really no reason not to.
 

Mustawd

Guest
I'm gonna pledge $40 in two weeks if there are any slots left.

EDIT: Also, as some feedback, I just want to mention that the rotation of the camera is really giving the sprite models a paper cut-out look to them. More so than any other 2D game I've experienced. When there's one view, then it's fine. But when there is rotation it just breaks the perspective for me and they seem paper thin to my eye. Even in profile.

*shrug* dunno if there is a way to fix it, but thought I'd mention it.
 
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I've got $25 to spare. The diminutive size of armies in SRPGs always seemed odd to me. I think this is an interesting premise.
 

Mustawd

Guest
Actually, I'm thinking it's less of a 3D rotation thing (which I still think makes them look flat), but more of how the sprites are placed in perspective. Take a look at this screenshot from your kickstarter video.

The group in the bottom left is definitely at a skewed angle, so that they appear paper thin. Even the skeletons facing our direction look thin because the camera is too high and too much to the left

sprites_zps1xpk0xpo.png



Again, not sure it can be fixed since the camera tends to rotate, but thought I'd mention it. Might be a reason why many 2D tactical games keep one perspective at all times. *shrug*
 

Merlkir

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Actually, I'm thinking it's less of a 3D rotation thing (which I still think makes them look flat), but more of how the sprites are placed in perspective. Take a look at this screenshot from your kickstarter video.

The group in the bottom left is definitely at a skewed angle, so that they appear paper thin. Even the skeletons facing our direction look thin because the camera is too high and too much to the left

sprites_zps1xpk0xpo.png



Again, not sure it can be fixed since the camera tends to rotate, but thought I'd mention it. Might be a reason why many 2D tactical games keep one perspective at all times. *shrug*

Seems like perspective deformation to me, a different projection mode would avoid that. (iso or similar alternatives)
 

Perkel

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Mar 28, 2014
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Actually, I'm thinking it's less of a 3D rotation thing (which I still think makes them look flat), but more of how the sprites are placed in perspective. Take a look at this screenshot from your kickstarter video.

The group in the bottom left is definitely at a skewed angle, so that they appear paper thin. Even the skeletons facing our direction look thin because the camera is too high and too much to the left

sprites_zps1xpk0xpo.png



Again, not sure it can be fixed since the camera tends to rotate, but thought I'd mention it. Might be a reason why many 2D tactical games keep one perspective at all times. *shrug*

Seems like perspective deformation to me, a different projection mode would avoid that. (iso or similar alternatives)

YEah it needs basically isometric view not perpectivic (which is when you have low high fov). Imo camera should be locked for 2D art to work properly.
 

Nathaniel3W

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You guys all raise some of the very same issues I thought a lot about while putting this together.

I wanted to make a game with camera controls like FFT, where you could see the battle from different angles. That was easy enough.

I also wanted to make a game that had that N64/Playstation-era feel, where there were 2D sprite characters in a 3D world. That was a little more complicated.

One step that seemed obvious at the time but ended up being much more complicated than at first glance, was setting up an isometric camera. The exact angle of the camera wasn't so important to me (FYI, for a traditional isometric view, it's looking 35 degrees down, at a 45 degree angle from the grid axis); I was willing to play around and see what worked best for me. After all, if I was going to spin the camera like in FFT, then I couldn't be married to just one angle anyway. To me the most important first step to getting that FFT perspective was removing the vanishing points. If I could do that, then any vertical object (such as one of my character sprites) would just appear vertical, with no distortion. The problem is that UDK, my game engine of choice, doesn't do isometric. I tried simulating it by moving the camera really far out and then zooming really far in. But at long distances, the UDK z-buffer starts making approximations, and rugs start blending into the floor, curtains into the wall, and things just get messed up.

So to stick with my game engine, and not have to scrap everything and start over elsewhere, I decided to move the camera closer in. (But it's still a lot farther out than most games; the camera has a 45 degree field of view, which would be annoyingly narrow in a FPS for example.) And I decided to just try to manipulate how the sprites were displayed to make it look more isometric. That ended up being really, really complicated.

So first, I realized that if I'm going to have 2D sprite characters, the sprites always have to face the camera. OK. But now the sprites at the sides of the screen have their heads pointing away at an angle, with their feet facing towards the camera. That's no good. Also, sprites next to a wall get cut off because they're facing upwards at an angle, and they clip into whatever's behind them. That's also no good.

To solve those problems, I made the sprites stay vertical. So now they never clip into walls behind them. And I didn't make them face the camera exactly. Keeping the sprites vertical in the Z axis, I turn them to face opposite the camera's yaw. So imagine if you will, if you're facing a marching band all lined up in front of you, the people are not all facing you directly; the ones directly in front of you are facing you, and everyone else is just parallel to them. That's what I make the sprites do. But then you face a couple of other problems: The sprites at the edge of the camera are still tilted slightly head-away and feet-toward me. Also, as the camera passes over sprites, they appear to get shorter, and sprites in the distance appear to be longer.

So I made the sprites stretch and tilt depending on where they are in my field of vision. The closer they are to being under the camera, the taller they get. The closer they are to the edge of the screen, the more they tilt inwards. That looks OK. That's basically what you see in the game. But that introduces a really crazy side-effect: Although the sprites seem to stay the same size according to the camera point of view, their shadows are constantly going nuts! They go totally bonkers, stretching and tilting as the camera moves around, but the sprites kind of seem to stay the same shape and size.

So then I give each character two sprites: One is visible, but casts no shadow, and it stretches and tilts based on its position on the screen. The other is invisible, but casts a shadow, and it does not stretch according to its position on the screen.

That all seems so complicated you say. Wasn't there an easier way of doing things? Well, yes and no, and not anything that I tried.

What I would have liked to do was have manual depth-buffer control over what gets drawn. You see things like this with a character's forearms and gun in an FPS: Technically, you should be clipping into things in the game world, but your gun and forearms get drawn in the foreground. That foreground gets drawn on top of the background, regardless of what the actual depth of the background scene is. UDK does that. I do that with the damage popups: they get drawn in the foreground. But what I wanted to do was to make the sprites face the camera, and then draw the whole sprite as though its scene depth is measured from its feet. Lots of games with sprite characters in 3D worlds do this:

screenshot_nds_pokemon_platinum005.jpg


(Edit: I was looking for a picture of a DS-era Pokemon game, which I'm pretty sure works the way I described. This isn't a good example of what I wanted to demonstrate, but hopefully you get the idea.)

But alas, UDK only has two depth settings: foreground and background, and you can't control the depth beyond that.
 
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Nathaniel3W

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OK, here's a good example, from Pokemon Black & White:

black-white-screenshot-2.jpg


The world is 3D. It has vanishing points and depth. But do you see that character at the left side of the screen? She (?) is not only 2D, but 2D without any of the distortion I had to deal with. That's because the game engine was built specifically for this situation. If a character walks behind something, the object occludes him. And if the character walks in front of something, he doesn't clip into it. And regardless of where the character is on the screen, s/he gets drawn in pixel-perfect clarity. I had to figure out how to do all that manually.
 

Mustawd

Guest
The sprites at the edge of the camera are still tilted slightly head-away and feet-toward me. Also, as the camera passes over sprites, they appear to get shorter, and sprites in the distance appear to be longer

Is this an issue due to the free roaming camera? Would locking the rotation to fixed angles help you manage it? Say 4 discrete camera rotations?

I don't know a damn thing about game dev, but intuitively it seems you could create sprites specific to those POVs, which would ensure proper angling of the images so they fit the background.

If a character walks behind something, the object occludes him. And if the character walks in front of something, he doesn't clip into it. And regardless of where the character is on the screen, s/he gets drawn in pixel-perfect clarity. I had to figure out how to do all that manually.

Man, what a pain. I have heard that 2D isometric is tough in UDK, so not a surprise. But still...
 
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Nathaniel3W

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This is why I avoid closed-source engines like the plague. You always get hit with an unfixable issue sooner or later.
I have run into more quirks than I would have liked, but I still think it was better than writing an entire engine from scratch. Everything is a trade-off I guess.

Mustawd Unfortunately it's not just a matter of camera rotation relative to the characters; it's more an issue with camera position relative to the characters, and there's really no convenient way in UDK to fix that. Thanks for helping me think through it though.
 

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