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Hindrance Mechanics

In general, are hindrance mechanics engaging or just a hindrance?

  • Engaging

  • Annoying


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I am casually designing a new home brew RPG system. I'd like feedback on a mechanic concept.

To truly slay a demon, the player must take on the demon's sin to complete that demon's soul, suffering a thematically suitable penalty (and possibly gaining an ability). Otherwise it will carry on to a new host like a metaphysical disease. The PC would then have to rectify the sin to restore themselves. For example, after vanquishing a Greed demon, the PC would need to be charitable. The concept is pretty simple.

My question is, do any of you find that sort if thing fun or interesting? In RPGs, chronic conditions like ability damage, disease, or curses tend to really annoy players. I want to bring weight to the idea of evil and corruption, and the sacrifice necessary to defeat it. It's still a game though. It has to be fun. Would any of you enjoy this concept, or would it be tedious?

It seems like everything would hang on execution of the quest design, and those quests would need to be two fold. I'm also thinking of having the penalties lessened for more advanced PCs, so hacking apart a cohort of minor demons might not even entail a penalty. What do you think?
 

hello friend

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I don't like your idea, it seems very anime. But mechanically I wouldn't mind. Dealing with curses can be cool. Disease, too. Amputation. I like all those things. Tuning it so it's fun in practice is hard to do, and if you have whiny players even that won't be enough.
 

Ismaul

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It really depends on the execution and the players.

Take, for example, MotB's hunger meter. Some people see it as a limitation on what they can do, others see it as a thematical way to make the character's situation part of the gameplay. Basically, if you don't like the meter, the game isn't for you. Such mechanics will never be universally liked. Accept that you lost those players.

But also, such mechanics have to be designed in a way that is fun for players (that like such thematical integration). It can't just be something that forces you to do one thing, or prevents you from doing something. It needs to be treated as something over which the player has choice, and has different ways to interact with.

Take MotB again. You can indulge the hunger, or suppress it. There are many ways to deal with the affliction, and it doesn't prevent you from making usual character choices and actions, it just becomes one factor to think about when deciding. That's good.

Same goes for the GM. The affliction can't be something that limits the GM's options at creating events.

Let me give you another example. You likely know the Savage Worlds system. It has Hindrances taken at character creation. The Fate system also has Aspects that can function as hindrances. In practice, how it works is that when a situation would make the hindrance relevant, the GM or players can propose bad stuff happening because of said hindrance. But then the player has a choice: fall for it and gain a token he can use as a benefit later, or pay a token to not fall for it. It putz it all in the hands of the player, so that the negative effects are not like an annoyimg debilitating condition, but something that complicates events for fun and good story when GM and players think it's a good idea.
 

Glop_dweller

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I would say forget the players; make the game you want to play, and decide if it's enjoyable or not.

It's never good to make a game to please a perceived audience—nor a film for that matter. Many great films had poor test screenings; Bladerunner was a box office flop.

RPGs are by definition hindrance-play; you are limited by the character, and the game uses the PC to evaluate when to say, "no" in almost every situation where there is a choice of outcome.
 

Scruffy

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As with everything, it depends on how it's implemented. In that example, the "you HAVE to be charitable" part needs to be interwoven with the story, you have to put the player in situations in which he needs to make an actual choice and either gain something meaningful by NOT being charitable (maybe framing it as the demon "tempting" them) and of course the need to defeat the "curse". For example, finding some great item that would make their life easier, but that would also greatly help some village and stuff. And they have to choose, do I greatly empower my character and keep the item, or do I work towards ending this curse and give it up? You could have the demon telling them "If you keep the item you will be more powerful and able to help MORE people later on!" but actually entrenching into the char and making the curse harder and harder to defeat, and so on.

If it's just "you found 1000 gold, but it goes all to the church, because curse" then it's just meh.
 

Ismaul

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Another thing. If some actions will create some sort of lasting condition or penalty, make that fact upfront. Make it something the player knows will happen, so that if he engages with the mechanic, he doesn't feel punished.

I'll give you an example from one of the D&D campaigns I ran. Very homebrew though, down to the rules. My players made two magically-binding pacts during the game with two different entities/persons. They knew upfront those persons were flawed, and that breaking a pact would have serious consequences. And they entered those contracts willingly. Each pact gave them advantages. One, for example, granted them protection from corruption in an environment (the terrain was harmful), would turn some creatures friendly, etc. Nothing overpowered, no character power increase, but very useful for their goals.

But, at some point, those two entities they made pacts with came into conflict, so the players had to choose which pact to break. They made their choice, and suffered the consequences. I tried to make it severe (it was a climactic event), yet not debilitating, not cutting out gameplay options. They had a -1 to all rolls, restricted access to their most powerful abilities, less effective resting, and harder healing. That is, until they fulfilled the conditions to get rid of the curse resulting from the broken pact. I decided they had to kill the entity they broke the pact with, and make a ritual with its harvested organs. So basically this was driving quests: they had to plan an assassination, and a ritual, all while their faculties were diminished and the entity's allies tried to prevent it. Breaking the pact has this principal effect: making enemies and giving objectives.

So, I'd say, limit how much the mechanics of this are bonuses and penalties to character abilities and potential, and focus more on affecting goals, quests and narrative. The rules will obviously need to be flexible so the GM can adapt them to the situation, rather than be limited by them.
 

Acrux

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This definitely feels like it's going to be player or even character specific. If I was playing an introspective paladin, for instance, I could see really getting into this mechanically.

Is the intention for these mechanics to be for all enemies or only select ones? If the players are going to be saddled with penalties most of the time, it might be irritating. Mostly because of forced RP ("you must do x to solve problem y"). If removing penalties can be folded into a module or quest system, that's better.
 
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Acrux I've considered two routes.
  1. Granular system where penalties are for every demon, but scaled off of the tier of the demon and relative power level of the vanquishing hero. So a new adventurer will get the full effect from killing an Imp, but epic paladin of justice can cull a room full and suffer no consequence. There will be spells, abilities, and features which will help counter-act, resolve, or even negate these negative effects.
  2. For unique, "mature" demons only. Something quest based and part of the narrative.
Keep in mind, this would only be for fell type creatures. These are among the rarest and most exotic monster types. Many even doubt they're real and chock them up to superstition. I want their threat to be proportionate to their scarcity. No hum-drum hell mouths threatening the realm every Tuesday. Demons are a major disturbance of the natural order, not just some evil stranger from a strange land.
 

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