Turn-Based Tactics Showgunners (formerly Homicidal All-Stars) - turn-based tactics in a brutal late 21st century reality show from Hard West creators

[lukaszek]

if it wasnt for cool deterministic system you guyz wouldnt hear of hard west in first place.

Man im upset. Sir Crispy help me

 

[Kacper Szymczak]

if it wasnt for cool deterministic system you guyz wouldnt hear of hard west in first place.

Man im upset. Sir Crispy help me

thats not what steam reviews say, fam

the key positives mentioned were 1. mood/setting/vibes 2. abilities/bullet ricochets 3. card system

 

[ERYFKRAD]

if it wasnt for cool deterministic system you guyz wouldnt hear of hard west in first place.

Man im upset. Sir Crispy help me

thats not what steam reviews say, fam

the key positives mentioned were 1. mood/setting/vibes 2. abilities/bullet ricochets 3. card system

Come for the non rng, stay for everything else?

 

[Kacper Szymczak]

You folks are true afficionados of intricate design and I have utmost respect for that (otherwise wouldnt bother to hang out here xD)
but there's a big world out there who doesnt give a flying fuck about those finer things :'-)

 

[ERYFKRAD]

You folks are true afficionados of intricate design and I have utmost respect for that (otherwise wouldnt bother to hang out here xD)
but there's a big world out there who doesnt give a flying fuck about those finer things :'-)

Yes, that's how we get Fallout 3, Oblivion et al.

 

[lukaszek]

if it wasnt for cool deterministic system you guyz wouldnt hear of hard west in first place.

Man im upset. Sir Crispy help me

thats not what steam reviews say, fam

the key positives mentioned were 1. mood/setting/vibes 2. abilities/bullet ricochets 3. card system

by 'here' i meant codex. People focus on systems, word of mouth was spread to try out this unique thing.

lol you are right, I tried to slice displayed used reviews and not a single mention of luck or hit system. Looking at PA it appears to be similar?

Are you making rng game for people that wouldnt notice anyway?

Spoiler

cant blame me for trying

Spoiler

some devs implement entropy, like poe for evasion https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Evasion, or have dice being shuffled deck behind the scenes. Just spill the beans what did you do in here

Spoiler

i want to believe

 

[Gregz]

it does sound promising
but I looked
it is a rare case where aesthetics are so bland I don't think I will be able to stomach that
I mean, how many cutesy fantasy games can a human organism withstand, really

It's based on a french(bear with me here) comic, rather well done humor which is very rare for the genre. Nobody was really expecting it to be good

The Dungeon of Naheulbeuk was a very pleasant surprise. My interest in this game is piqued; wishlisted.

 

[Kacper Szymczak]

Are you making rng game for people that wouldnt notice anyway?

That's an interesting and valid point. I'd assume that the Hard West system was better received because on the outside it kind of pretended to be widely known rng (did have a % chance to hit) and the noobz didn't get the underlying mechanics, but it didnt really affect their experience. Meanwhile, the afficionados could experience the extra layer of gameplay.

There are two problems that we see in a fully deterministic system:
1. the increased predictability results in less excitment and fun (I like Schell's definition of fun = pleasure + surprises) and you have to provide that unpredictability and surprises otherwise (which is costly)
2. getting this to work as well as a run-off-the-mill rng takes a lot of work and resources, which could be invested into something more people will notice/enjoy (in case of HAS, tons of energy went into character abilities and level mechanics instead)

Just spill the beans what did you do in here

we do unspeakable dark evil things behind the curtain

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

There are two problems that we see in a fully deterministic system:
1. the increased predictability results in less excitment and fun (I like Schell's definition of fun = pleasure + surprises) and you have to provide that unpredictability and surprises otherwise (which is costly)
2. getting this to work as well as a run-off-the-mill rng takes a lot of work and resources, which could be invested into something more people will notice/enjoy (in case of HAS, tons of energy went into character abilities and level mechanics instead)

we do unspeakable dark evil things behind the curtain

I see you've seen the light.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

if it wasnt for cool deterministic system you guyz wouldnt hear of hard west in first place.

Man im upset. Sir Crispy help me

thats not what steam reviews say, fam

the key positives mentioned were 1. mood/setting/vibes 2. abilities/bullet ricochets 3. card system

I get the feeling most normies probably wouldn't understand the difference between Hard West's luck system and RNG unless they took the time to understand the system itself and they don't really care. I don't think they would have noticed at all if it had RNG instead.
OTOH, you risk alienating grognards if you say, make a game like the most recent XCOM spinoff which seemed aimed at a completely different and more casual/mobile audience. Balance in all things, I suppose.

I originally bought Hard West because of its setting btw. I thought the luck system was brilliant because of how well it fit into the theme/game, but it's probably not something that would have made me buy it alone.

 

[lukaszek]

Just spill the beans what did you do in here

we do unspeakable dark evil things behind the curtain

 

[lukaszek]

I get the feeling most normies probably wouldn't understand the difference between Hard West's luck system and RNG unless they took the time to understand the system itself and they don't really care. I don't think they would have noticed at all if it had RNG instead.
OTOH, you risk alienating grognards if you say, make a game like the most recent XCOM spinoff which seemed aimed at a completely different and more casual/mobile audience. Balance in all things, I suppose.

cloning xcom allows you to receive reviews like

99% chance to hit will miss 100% of the time.

 

[Cyberarmy]

So some came up with The Running Man game we deserved after all this time? Underrail had a nice part like it but having a full game will be better.
Also from the team team that my favorite 2 tactical games in this decade?

 

[ArchAngel]

So some came up with The Running Man game we deserved after all this time? Underrail had a nice part like it but having a full game will be better.
Also from the team team that my favorite 2 tactical games in this decade?

LoL, I hated that part.

 

[ArchAngel]

As for this game, maybe it is unfair because we only got one trailer but Hard West 2 looks more interesting.
Also going for a game like this after you went more ambitious with Phantom Doctrine is pure

 

[agris]

Just spill the beans what did you do in here

we do unspeakable dark evil things behind the curtain

It's weird that Kacper won't just come out and say if they use a straight, un-fudged RNG system of if it's fudged to help the player.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I think it might be he's not aware of what you guys are specifically referencing.
That is, new xcom developers flat out saying they lie about the % showed to the players.

 

[The Wall]

NEEDZ EVEN MOAR BUFFED STRONK WOMENX! GOTTA GET ESG SCORE AS HIGH AS POSSIBLE! Is Caitlyn Jenner character artist?*

*After seeing thousands of MALE soldiers die in Ukraine, their heads blown off, their bodies burned to crisps, their heads chopped off and put on fences, while all women ran off to Western Europe to suck dick and do onlyfans while their brothers, husbands and sons are dying, whenever I see video game with 2/3 of fighters in squad being female: I puke. Then clean my mouth and start laughing while I delete history search for said game. Developers who make these games are fucking DORKS who know nothing about life or reality

Game looks derivative. Derivative in aesthetics, derivative in gameplay. All checkboxes for ESG checked, a single screenshot with male fighter to grab attention of 95% of customers: males who are starved for good tactical game. Nice thematic premise that will probably get drowned in sea of gameplay derivate decisions. Hard West was thematicly, aestheticly and gameplay wise unique

 

[Kacper Szymczak]

It's weird that Kacper won't just come out and say if they use a straight, un-fudged RNG system of if it's fudged to help the player.

lol i almost literally said that we do*
wanna know something else
we did in HW and PD as well

i pity the fool who implements a pure rng

*not on hard tho

 

[Kacper Szymczak]

the actual fuck

i trust you have the best of intentions and fight a good fight, but i have absolutely no clue what the hell youre talking about
but youre probably correct
in some parallel universe
good riddance

 

[The Wall]

I simply LOVED attention to historical authenticity and immersive reality of Phantom Doctrine, your previous game, where Cold War CIA, KGB and Mossad in 70s/80s were made out of niggers, dykes, lesbians, mexican trannies and occasinal circus clown. Really helped me to never waste my money, hard disc memory or life on yet another ESG garbage made by Polish, wanna be Callifornian, DORKS

SJW woke poison with strawberry sweetener. No, thanks

 

[The Wall]

the actual fuck

i trust you have the best of intentions and fight a good fight, but i have absolutely no clue what the hell youre talking about
but youre probably correct
in some parallel universe
good riddance

Reddit is that way. Return to Dorkville. DORK

 

[Kacper Szymczak]

lol he always like that? xD

k found the ignore button, works like a charm, nice

 

[rusty_shackleford]

lol he always like that? xD

Yes, he's a bit special.

 

[agris]

almost literally

you're uhh... not doing the writing, i hope?