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Horizon Zero Dawn - open world action-RPG from Guerilla Games - now on PC

v1rus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,253
I played the game on Ultra Hard from the start, it was great. It inevitably became piss easy about 2/3’s in, but before that it was hard and I had to think about which fights I started and how. Killing my first Thundermaw with my crappy weapons on Ultra Hard felt like an actual achievement in comparison with the pathetic stuff most games dish out these days

It also had the atmospheric effect of making huge ass Dino robots feel threatening instead of like loot piñatas

Ultra Hard is the definitive way to play this game, yes, I fully agree. But it also increases the shopping prices to an amount that doesnt seem worthwhile on basic NG. I completely 100% the game, and even with buying stuff on very hard (literally, switch before approaching the vendor, buy stuff, back to ultra hard) i barely managed to get them all.

The question is, what do you prefer? I enjoyed the combat system a lot, but versatility of different weapons helped with it, even if you really need just a single good weapon, max two (theres that sniping bow for dmg, and pick another weapon to exploit weak spots). I feel the game would become more way more tedious if I wasnt using some sub-optimal weapons for fun points from time to time.

Imho, its a weird situation - the combat system did wonders for me, requiring LOTS tactics and planning, but there was literally no encounter design, which was felt, a lot. (Except for hunting lodges, and i loved those). The thing is - AFAIK, Ultra Hard was added post release, and was meant for NG+ only runs - and very hard aint particularly hard, thus there always that strange idea of "the game was not meant to be played like this" haunting me during my play-through. Dont get me wrong - I fully recommend playing the game on Ultra Hard, because there is quality to be found among bad decisions the devs made, but in a way, "you arent playing the game as it was designed to be played" by playing Ultra Hard on NG. Which did wonders for me, I did "a bad, unintended thing", to make myself enjoy what was offered more.

The question now is, what do you prefer in further tailoring the difficulty to your tastes - some fun gadgets to mess around with, causing some additional challenge due to their unoptimization, or going through a even rougher patch, before picking the BIS, where the game difficulty relatively decreases (Its a question how much the patch is rougher tho - prices are like four or five times bigger on Ultra Hard - meaning that instead of buying all 5 weapons offered, you buy just the BIS one, and while you lack some versatility that could be warranted from time to time, the BIS weapon is what you could use to effectively kill 90% of enemies.). I preferred the previous option, i just loved messing with slingshots and flamethrowers and whatnot, even tho it would probably be more efficient just to snipe the robo with that hyper dmg bow. You seem to prefer the other option, which is perfectly fine, and respectable.

Out of curiosity, how much side content did you do? Did the robos start with evolution?
 

mkultra

Augur
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
469
It's not better than 95%, it's same'ish as 98% of all games: it's ridiculous and not well written. It really has no good characters in it imo. It's fun as an open world game though and it's not like i was surprised by a bad plot, i was totally expecting that. Assassins Creed is also similarly terrible, i still enjoy Origins (at least this one has a good main character) and Odyssey for what they are, fun in short bursts here and there.

Anyone who thinks the story here is good need to read more books, and not shitty pulp fiction books. You'll be surprised.

It's really not, but you can keep repeating that if it makes you feel like you're correct.

The story is good by video game standards. No one is saying it compares to a well written book.

What do you mean "Correct"? It's my opinion.

The story is long and there's a lot of it (tons of cut scenes, tons of voice acting and there's a lot to read) by video game standards. How it's put together is just a giant facepalm. This story is super weak in comparison to the games that inspired its story (system shock 2 for example - a much better story that didn't need 1h of cut scenes).
 

JDR13

Arcane
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
3,930
Location
The Swamp
The story is long and there's a lot of it (tons of cut scenes, tons of voice acting and there's a lot to read) by video game standards. How it's put together is just a giant facepalm. This story is super weak in comparison to the games that inspired its story (system shock 2 for example - a much better story that didn't need 1h of cut scenes).

No, it's really not, but you're welcome to that opinion of course.

Not sure where you got that it was inspired by SS2. Other than having a rogue AI as the antagonist, they're not very similar, and SS wasn't the first story to feature the rogue AI trope. I also wouldn't say that SS2 had better writing, and I'm a big fan of that game.
 

mkultra

Augur
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
469
The story is long and there's a lot of it (tons of cut scenes, tons of voice acting and there's a lot to read) by video game standards. How it's put together is just a giant facepalm. This story is super weak in comparison to the games that inspired its story (system shock 2 for example - a much better story that didn't need 1h of cut scenes).

No, it's really not, but you're welcome to that opinion of course.

Not sure where you got that it was inspired by SS2. Other than having a rogue AI as the antagonist, they're not very similar, and SS wasn't the first story to feature the rogue AI trope. I also wouldn't say that SS2 had better writing, and I'm a big fan of that game.

I have no idea what your "no it's not" even refers to in your posts. It's not a long story, tons of cut scenes and much to read? Yes there is. It's a lot of story in comparison to most games, it has way more cut scenes than all the Elder Scrolls Series has combined, 90% which doesn't really add anything apart from making it a super drawn out game (gotta get those hours pumped up).

I didn't say it was only inspired by SS2 but it clearly takes the logs, rogue AI inspiration from SS2, like many other games before this (Doom3 etc). The logs are very SS2'ish, even down to the voice acting and writing, so much that it often felt like a homage. I actually gave the story a fair shot, yes i even read the logs to try to get more immersed in it.

I'd rate the story 1/10 (like i would for most games, it's terrible and it also takes itself too seriously which is not to its favor)
combat for an ARPG is a solid 8/10.
graphics / artwork: 10/10
open world design: 6/10 (second one seems much better)
characters 2/10 (second one seems worse with its tag along NPC's)
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,385
Location
Copenhagen
I played the game on Ultra Hard from the start, it was great. It inevitably became piss easy about 2/3’s in, but before that it was hard and I had to think about which fights I started and how. Killing my first Thundermaw with my crappy weapons on Ultra Hard felt like an actual achievement in comparison with the pathetic stuff most games dish out these days

It also had the atmospheric effect of making huge ass Dino robots feel threatening instead of like loot piñatas

Ultra Hard is the definitive way to play this game, yes, I fully agree. But it also increases the shopping prices to an amount that doesnt seem worthwhile on basic NG. I completely 100% the game, and even with buying stuff on very hard (literally, switch before approaching the vendor, buy stuff, back to ultra hard) i barely managed to get them all.

The question is, what do you prefer? I enjoyed the combat system a lot, but versatility of different weapons helped with it, even if you really need just a single good weapon, max two (theres that sniping bow for dmg, and pick another weapon to exploit weak spots). I feel the game would become more way more tedious if I wasnt using some sub-optimal weapons for fun points from time to time.

Imho, its a weird situation - the combat system did wonders for me, requiring LOTS tactics and planning, but there was literally no encounter design, which was felt, a lot. (Except for hunting lodges, and i loved those). The thing is - AFAIK, Ultra Hard was added post release, and was meant for NG+ only runs - and very hard aint particularly hard, thus there always that strange idea of "the game was not meant to be played like this" haunting me during my play-through. Dont get me wrong - I fully recommend playing the game on Ultra Hard, because there is quality to be found among bad decisions the devs made, but in a way, "you arent playing the game as it was designed to be played" by playing Ultra Hard on NG. Which did wonders for me, I did "a bad, unintended thing", to make myself enjoy what was offered more.

The question now is, what do you prefer in further tailoring the difficulty to your tastes - some fun gadgets to mess around with, causing some additional challenge due to their unoptimization, or going through a even rougher patch, before picking the BIS, where the game difficulty relatively decreases (Its a question how much the patch is rougher tho - prices are like four or five times bigger on Ultra Hard - meaning that instead of buying all 5 weapons offered, you buy just the BIS one, and while you lack some versatility that could be warranted from time to time, the BIS weapon is what you could use to effectively kill 90% of enemies.). I preferred the previous option, i just loved messing with slingshots and flamethrowers and whatnot, even tho it would probably be more efficient just to snipe the robo with that hyper dmg bow. You seem to prefer the other option, which is perfectly fine, and respectable.

Out of curiosity, how much side content did you do? Did the robos start with evolution?

I had no idea UH was meant for NG+, I just played on that difficulty and it was great.

So many encounters like the first flying enemies, sabertooths and crocs were menacing and almost impossible to take down. My first Thundermaw was the dungeon-one which might be the hardest Thundermaw in the game, one of the most intense fights I’ve beat in gaming on Ultra Hard.

It seems very off putting to me that giant robot dinosaurs would be anything but incredibly hard to defeat for a fragile bow using girl.

The insane difficulty of the early game made the power you grew into feel earned.

While I do recall the weapons being expensive as shit, I did end up with all weapons ultimately.

I did all side quests until late game where I got bored.
 

JDR13

Arcane
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
3,930
Location
The Swamp
I have no idea what your "no it's not" even refers to in your posts. It's not a long story, tons of cut scenes and much to read? Yes there is. It's a lot of story in comparison to most games, it has way more cut scenes than all the Elder Scrolls Series has combined, 90% which doesn't really add anything apart from making it a super drawn out game (gotta get those hours pumped up).

I mean no, it's not weak. Again, you can have your opinion, but I have a feeling you're in the minority. There's nothing wrong with that of course.


I didn't say it was only inspired by SS2 but it clearly takes the logs, rogue AI inspiration from SS2, like many other games before this (Doom3 etc). The logs are very SS2'ish, even down to the voice acting and writing, so much that it often felt like a homage. I actually gave the story a fair shot, yes i even read the logs to try to get more immersed in it.

I've played through SS2 multiple times, and I was never once reminded of that game while playing HZD. If you Google it, you'll see that the HZD devs mention that one of their inspirations was Stanley Kubrick's 2010. That's obviously where the rogue AI comes from, and I wouldn't be surprised if that film also inspired the SS2 team.


I'd rate the story 1/10 (like i would for most games, it's terrible and it also takes itself too seriously which is not to its favor)

:retarded:
 

Ezekiel

Arcane
Joined
May 3, 2017
Messages
5,373
Exploring Frozen Wilds for the first time. Strange thing to continue a save file 3 1/2 years later. It was the one big thing I didn't do after finishing my complete edition of the game.

Don't remember her arms being so fucking skinny.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,385
Location
Copenhagen
Someone thinks this game has a good story?

It's proficiently told in the first third and parts of the world is well built, but that's it. The rest is a completely predictable, paint-by-numbers story and no characters have any unique traits or interesting features. It's only been a few years since I've played and I can't remember any characters except Gruff Dad, Aloy and Lance Reddick. The first ironically because he's such a cliche dad character, Aloy because, well, I played her, and Lance Reddick because Lance is a fucking great actor. The character itself was not memorable. There are no real character arcs except Aloy's coming of age story early on, and the secrets you discover don't really change or recontextualize your assumptions or prior knowledge. I started skipping cutscenes about halfway in after being mildly intrigued in the beginning.
 
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Ezekiel

Arcane
Joined
May 3, 2017
Messages
5,373
Can barely hear what Alloy is saying in the wild. Don't know why this is so difficult for so many developers.

 

mkultra

Augur
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
469
It's funny when people think these devs are inspired by something like Kubric or even something older, no it it isn't, those audio logs left behind were first done in System Shock 1-2. Then later in games like Doom 3, it also just happens to be about a rogue AI, give me a break.

Sure, you can find a reference elsewhere and maybe i would believe it, if it wasn't a computer game with a really stupid story about rogue robot dinosaurs who were meant for cleaning the environment (lol) but used for war (lol) who can also now copulate (lol). Strong wahmen comes to the rescue to fight evil men and tech. I doubt that i even as a 8 year old kid i would have thought that was a good story. I doubt these people has read even one single book in their entire life, these (mainly) 20-30 year olds have played many computer games and the atrocious story reflects that background in its awful writing.
 
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antimeridian

Learned
Patron
Joined
May 18, 2021
Messages
271
Codex Year of the Donut
Sure, you can find a reference elsewhere and maybe i would believe it, if it wasn't a computer game with a really stupid story about rogue robot dinosaurs who were meant for cleaning the environment (lol) but used for war (lol) who can also now copulate (lol). Strong wahmen comes to the rescue to fight evil men and tech. I doubt that i even as a 8 year old kid i would have thought that was a good story. I doubt these people has read even one single book in their entire life, these (mainly) 20-30 year olds have played many computer games and the atrocious story reflects that background in its awful writing.

Honestly HZD has major YA vibes in its writing. The story and setting could just as easily have been a shitty movie in the vein of Hunger Games or Divergent or any of those. There was another thread where people were talking about how the games industry is full of failed YA writers these days. Horizon is definitely an example.
 

cvv

Arcane
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Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,074
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
Honestly HZD has major YA vibes in its writing.
So does effectively every other AAA game made in the past decade.
And most films. And TV shows. And SF/fantasy books.

Apparently HZD is still fine compared to Forbidden West. They fired their experienced narrative director and hired a bunch of wahmen for the sequel and now everyone's complaining the story and dialogues are incredibly wordy, sentimental and tedious.

I'm shock.

Anyone played the sequel yet?
 

JDR13

Arcane
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
3,930
Location
The Swamp
Someone thinks this game has a good story?

It's proficiently told in the first third and parts of the world is well built, but that's it. The rest is a completely predictable, paint-by-numbers story and no characters have any unique traits or interesting features. It's only been a few years since I've played and I can't remember any characters except Gruff Dad, Aloy and Lance Reddick. The first ironically because he's such a cliche dad character, Aloy because, well, I played her, and Lance Reddick because Lance is a fucking great actor. The character itself was not memorable. There are no real character arcs except Aloy's coming of age story early on, and the secrets you discover don't really change or recontextualize your assumptions or prior knowledge. I started skipping cutscenes about halfway in after being mildly intrigued in the beginning.

By action-RPG standards, it's better than most. If you disagree, list what action-RPGs have better writing. I'd be curious to see that list.
 

Twiglard

Poland Stronk
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Staff Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
7,205
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Poland
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
Honestly HZD has major YA vibes in its writing. The story and setting could just as easily have been a shitty movie in the vein of Hunger Games or Divergent or any of those.

It's decent for a sci-fi story. I don't see the grey goo scenario used very often in mass culture, or at all.

the secrets you discover don't really change or recontextualize your assumptions or prior knowledge

There's plenty of piecing together how exactly the apocalypse went down up until the game is almost over.

Wanted to write a review, but the review would have to admit that it's not an RPG. It only uses some genre conventions and that's it. If JA2 is an RPG, HZD isn't.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,385
Location
Copenhagen
Someone thinks this game has a good story?

It's proficiently told in the first third and parts of the world is well built, but that's it. The rest is a completely predictable, paint-by-numbers story and no characters have any unique traits or interesting features. It's only been a few years since I've played and I can't remember any characters except Gruff Dad, Aloy and Lance Reddick. The first ironically because he's such a cliche dad character, Aloy because, well, I played her, and Lance Reddick because Lance is a fucking great actor. The character itself was not memorable. There are no real character arcs except Aloy's coming of age story early on, and the secrets you discover don't really change or recontextualize your assumptions or prior knowledge. I started skipping cutscenes about halfway in after being mildly intrigued in the beginning.

By action-RPG standards, it's better than most. If you disagree, list what action-RPGs have better writing. I'd be curious to see that list.

I don’t. Better than aRPG standards is just a laughably low bar. Certainly not worth my time. The gameplay was fun though
 

Ezekiel

Arcane
Joined
May 3, 2017
Messages
5,373
Finished the main story in Frozen Wilds. The land looked nice. Combat and story are still pretty middling 3 1/2 years after last playing this save file.

The more I play games, the more I think most puzzles are just a nuisance.

Horizon-Zero-Dawn-Complete-Edition-20220507095535.jpg
 

Lord_Potato

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
9,836
Location
Free City of Warsaw
28 hours in, level 35. Decided to leave the main quest for a bit and go explore the Frozen Wilds.

The visuals are still gorgeous and the framerate very decent on my aged rig. Climbing giraffes never gets old. It's a pity dialogue choices are mostly cosmetic, did the next game introduce some more actual c&c?

Combat on the other hand is getting better and better with new toys and techniques at my disposal. All those traps, bombs, sniper bows, heavy weapons provide much enjoyment when I kill steel goliaths or eliminate entire squads of bandits.

Still need to slay my first thundermaw.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,031
Honestly HZD has major YA vibes in its writing.
So does effectively every other AAA game made in the past decade.
And most films. And TV shows. And SF/fantasy books.

Apparently HZD is still fine compared to Forbidden West. They fired their experienced narrative director and hired a bunch of wahmen for the sequel and now everyone's complaining the story and dialogues are incredibly wordy, sentimental and tedious.

I'm shock.

Anyone played the sequel yet?

It looks like he left.

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/202...st_writer_john_gonzalez_exits_guerrilla_games

Horizon Forbidden West narrative director John Gonzalez has left Guerrilla Games, moving to a new AAA studio in Barcelona where he’ll be tasked with building an original open world with “a new cadre of like-minded, crazy-ambitious devs”. It’s unclear exactly which team he’s joined, though online scuttlebutt points to Smilegate Barcelona – a new studio founded by the South Korean creators of CrossFire.

Gonzalez, who also wrote Fallout: New Vegas, played a massive role in the development of Horizon Zero Dawn. In addition to creating the title’s overarching lore, he wrote 90 per cent of the main quest and served as an editor to other writers. He’s also contributed heavily to the development of the title’s forthcoming PlayStation 5 sequel.

His resume reads: “Created the game's story and major characters, designing the narrative flow of the main quest beat-by-beat. Collaborated intensely with design to unite narrative and gameplay and with art to realise the game's new tribes and key locations. Wrote key cinematics, conversations, and other content.”

With the follow-up due out in 2021, it’s likely that Gonzalez’s work on Horizon Forbidden West is largely complete now, and after spending over seven years in Amsterdam, it’s no surprise that he feels ready to move on at this point. Nevertheless, we’re looking forward to experiencing the fruits of his labour when the sequel launches next year.
 

Lord_Potato

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
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Nov 24, 2017
Messages
9,836
Location
Free City of Warsaw
So, after 64 hours I finished the main game and Frozen Wilds DLC.

It was a pretty completionist run - although I avoided the typical, repetitive open-world activities like the hunting grounds (only did enough trials to unlock the hunting lodge questline, which was fun) or collecting useless items like mugs or animal sculptures. However, I did most of the sidequests and gathered all the allies for the big finale. My final verdict? What a great game it was. I really should have played it earlier, not wait a couple of years after purchasing it from GOG.

Yes, most quest design amount to "fetch this" or "kill that", although the framing of such activities is often more interesting. On the other hand, the combat with enormous machines never gets old. Every battle robot has a set of different behaviors, attack styles and patterns, weaknesses, and strengths. Even marching towards the final quest of the game I detoured several times to kill some wandering monsters on the way, because the action sequences are top-notch. Good combat paired with a save system that does not allow you to save your game everywhere can lead to many high-adrenaline encounters in which you fight for Aloy's life to the best of your ability.

True, the dialogues with actual, living characters are poorly written and mostly boring and your dialogue options rarely matter. However the mystery of the post-apocalyptic world, conveyed through countless notes, audio recordings and holographic scenes is brilliant, thought-provoking and emotionally engaging. This is honestly the first game in which I was actively hunting for audiologs, especially those concerning the New Dawn project and the deteriorating psychological state of its creators. People who wrote these sequences deserve all the praise and prizes the game received for outstanding narrative. The mystery kept me going until the very end. The final reveal leads to an excellently written and directed ending (only one, but it's worth it).

Horizon is probably not the game typical RPG Codex member loves - it has a single, fixed protagonist with limited paths of customization (although you can feel the influence of every upgrade on your playstyle), a story that you mostly experience, not influence (not a lot of C&C), and is not turn-based. However, it does several things very well: action-packed combat, worldbuilding, and an absolutely gorgeous presentation. I enjoyed it very much. A typical open world fatigue did not capture me until the very end.

Also, it has quite a lot of subtle reactivity. People on the streets speak about the consequences of some of the sidequests you chose to complete. There are different dialogue sequences depending if you decide to go ahead with the main quest or first finish the DLC. Also, people often comment on Aloy's outfit (when you go to Meridian better wear Cardja clothes to gain some respect, or Banuk clothes when visiting the villages of Frozen Wilds).

The only downside is now I have to wait 4-5 years until Sony allows the PC port of the sequel, Forbidden West. I loved HZD, but not enough to purchase a fucking Playstation. Even if they were currently available.
 
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racofer

Thread Incliner
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Your ignore list.
Never really cared much about this game. Decided to play it today; clocked around 3~4 hours on it. Uninstalled.

Like someone else said: it's your usual AAA garbage. Purty shining graphics, yet bland environments and barren landscape. Sells stealthy gameplay, yet devolves into open action regularly. Feels exactly like your generic Ubisoft game riddled with fetch quests where you grab 10x materials A, 15x materials B, craft a dildo, upgrade dildo with neon, follow quest compass to next objective, rinse and repeat for 60 hours until the "story" ends, forgettable characters... garbo game from start to finish.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
4,012
The Assassin's Creed stuff I've played is more interesting. The most memorable part of this game for me were the different podcast I was listening to while playing it; if my focus had to be completely on the game, I probably would've given up on it long before I did, but even as a thing to do while doing other shit I got bored of it before the end. The most interesting thing about it is, you can kind of see and feel this is the engine they used for Death Stranding; I didn't exactly expect that, so that was kind of interesting.

The combat in this game is a mess. I got to some boss fight and it felt like the only way to really beat it was to cheese the encounter in a pretty unfun manner. The stealth gameplay is also fairly uninteresting "hide in tall grass" stealth. This just ended up being another in a line of games that I wish had just ripped off Dragon's Dogma...because Dragon's Dogma with robot dinosaurs would be pretty cool. This game however isn't even have as cool as the idea of itself.

The storytelling also sucks. There's aspects of the world that are interesting, some interesting designs for locations, but when people start talking and keep talking I was just wishing they'd shut the fuck up.
 

antimeridian

Learned
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Joined
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Messages
271
Codex Year of the Donut
The storytelling also sucks. There's aspects of the world that are interesting, some interesting designs for locations, but when people start talking and keep talking I was just wishing they'd shut the fuck up.
One of the worse examples of modern game word vomit, the pointless chasing of "realistic" "immersive" dialogue. All I could think about listening to the NPCs spew novels in HZD was the gloriously terse and punchy writing of games like Deus Ex.
 

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