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How Will WOTC New Approach to Races Effect the Future CRPG?

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Chippy, Aug 21, 2021.

  1. Chippy Arcane Patron

    Chippy
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    I stumbled across thses two articles here: https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2021/05/dd-wotc-adds-three-new-types-of-drow-retcons-drow-lore.html

    "I hope that this is just the first step, and that the days of “all evil” races are gone. Orcs, as written now, are always evil savages, and that’s neither fun nor particularly satisfying writing. But with this move to a more broad, diverse perspective of drow, we’re getting an idea of what a more inclusive future of Dungeons & Dragons could be like, and honestly, it’s about time."

    https://www.polygon.com/22585687/du...atore-drizzt-black-controversy-race-interview

    "Savatore says this othering was always his intent. What he did not fully comprehend when he created the character, he said, was how Drizzt’s blackness would contribute to how that othering was perceived by his audience. Today, the black-as-other and related tropes are widely viewed as a problematic narrative devices."

    "Since its inception in the 1970s, the game has codified racism, in the form of strict inequalities between its fantasy races, within its ruleset. As writer and game designer James Mendez Hodes wrote in 2019, “D&D, like Tolkien, makes race literally real in-game by applying immutable modifiers to character ability scores, skills, and other characteristics.”



    "Later illustrators of D&D products, perhaps more aware of the optics, have made them a purple-black or dusky-grey-black. But let’s be real. They have black skin. If you can’t see the problems with this, I can’t help you."


    "Making “races” like orcs and dark elves inherently evil does two things. First, it presents a world in which good and evil are so simplistic that an entire culture, race, or species can be inherently evil. If someone were to transpose that way of thinking onto cultures or races today, it could lead to the worst sort of prejudice."

    End quotes.

    I always thought it was pretty simple: some jungle elves with black skin get thrown out of polite elven society/trees and take refuge in the underdark. They're naturals at chess, break dancing, and have big tits (or cock if that's for you) and absorb all the mana from the surroundings that give them the abilities to wear headgear other than tinfoil hats, bling things up with faerie lights, and finally prove once and for all that all other races can't jump.

    And their society makes them the type of characters that would stab their neighbour in the back at any opportunity to aquire free boots of speed.

    And as far as orcs go, well we all agree that the greenskins must die. That's the emperors will.

    I find this new approach highly problematic.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
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  2. Feyd Rautha Arcane Patron

    Feyd Rautha
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    Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Well it's a fantasy world. Unlike the real world good and evil can actually exist in the flesh and not just in the abstract, I don't see the need to change that. Create your own universe and rule-set if it's so horrible with good and evil.
     
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  3. lukaszek the determinator Patron

    lukaszek
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    new orcs wont be evil, just leaning right while elves go left
     
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  4. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    Barely, because WotC still hasn't gone back to the PC game market. Only real CRPG they've officially licensed out is BG3.

    Everything else is indies using the OGL lol.
     
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  5. Zed Duke of Banville Zo Kath Ra Patron

    Zed Duke of Banville
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    The religious beliefs propagated by Wizards of the Coast should be blessedly irrelevant to CRPG development. Any company developing CRPGs today should look to actual D&D/AD&D by TSR, classic CRPGs from the '80s and '90s, and the recent CRPG Renaissance for inspiration. +M
     
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  6. Darth Canoli Arcane

    Darth Canoli
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    With luck, not in the slightest because monocled devs will either use the OGL or different systems than D&D 5e +
     
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  7. Niggerino Savant

    Niggerino
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    Are they not doing exactly this right now, and even teaching it in schools?
     
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  8. Chippy Arcane Patron

    Chippy
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    Yeah, I think where they really screwed up by retconning the Drow lore is that all the evil Drow that follow Lolth should become white-skinned and male. So we can see who they really are. Give them +2 reputation on game start and 10,000 gold as well.
     
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  9. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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  10. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    RPGs are using species, basically dogs and goats. Are dogs inherently criminal because when wild dogs and one goat would be in the same place, the goat ends as a snack?
     
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  11. Ol' Willy Arcane Zionist Agent

    Ol' Willy
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    I don't know what drugs are you hooked up on, but comparing SENTIENT and NON-SENTIENT creatures is a creative way to look at that quetion
     
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  12. Morpheus Kitami Arbiter

    Morpheus Kitami
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    Well, it might impact something, since WotC was making noise about having some 10 or so new games in development for DnD. No idea if they've happened or not, beyond BG3 and that one browser card game. Doesn't the new version remove any point to the different races beyond RPing anyway?
    Drow unfortunately, fell victim to their own hype. They were always the cool Underdark race, as opposed to Illithid, drauger or those gnomes. So instead of them being the high-end fodder they were originally intended to be, now every other game has to have a token good drow. No longer is it some long fought journey for them to be good, its just, eh, they're good. I find the real world comparisons to a race of nigh immortal magical humanoids turned evil by a goddess of spiders to be some serious missing the forest for the trees. Last I checked no group of people who call themselves black in real life have stronger women, who keep multiple husbands, and own slaves. Yeah, let's worry about problems that don't exist!
     
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  13. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    they're manlets, by definition they cannot be cool
     
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  14. anvi Prophet Village Idiot

    anvi
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    I expect the next set to feature only non binary characters. Also all the various Lord Of Whatever characters should be changed to something more progressive and inclusive. Like maybe combine lord and lady to make a new word. Lorlady of Extinction and Lorlady of Atlantis. Although that is insensitive to the people of Atlantis who died to drowning, so that should be changed too. Lorlady of Underwaterland.
     
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  15. Sacibengala Savant

    Sacibengala
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    I'm expecting to everyone starts as a transparent blob. No race, no skin, no size, no gender, no sex. Nothing. Only a blob. That's the future.
     
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  16. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    I liked how Arcanum tackled the subject by despicting fantasy races according to the sensibilities of Victorian Science, which actually had some quite interesting conclusions:

    Show Spoiler

    - Pretty much every humanoid race comes from humans, giants or ogres I think?
    - Elves being "an ancient race before man" was total bullshit brohistory the elves themselves believed to make themselves look better, elves came later and evolved from human stock.
    - Halflings and Gnomes are related.
    - Orcs are transformed elves (LOTR reference?) or ogre descendants, don't remember which. They also have massive magickal potential, but are too dumb/savage to use.
    - There's a lot of curious texts on Orcs. Some seem to go with the "Orcs are a bunch of dumb violent savages", while others seem to go with "Orcs are evolved to be stronger, more violent and tougher, and may be kind of dim, but their real issue is their shit culture". Its also interesting that Orcs have immense magickal potential, but they are too dumb or lack the knowledge to use. I think its implied Orcs are altered supersoldiers made from elven stock?
     
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  17. RNGsus Arcane

    RNGsus
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    [​IMG]
     
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  18. mediocrepoet First disciple of Mediocrites Patron

    mediocrepoet
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    Codex 2012 MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
    The title should clearly be "Lardy" but that cut too close to home for the current fan demographic.
     
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  19. deuxhero Arcane

    deuxhero
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    When's the last reasonably large budget fantasy wRPG to feature player pickable races that wasn't a pre-2010 property?

    Also:
    [​IMG]
    edit:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
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  20. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    deadfiya
     
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  21. daveyarsegallant Magister Wumao

    daveyarsegallant
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    There was that social experiment conducted on two orcs and the conclusion was that orcs aren't stupid by any means, but they are quick to anger and particularly vindictive. Orcs are viewed as dumb because they have less access to formalized education and their bad tempers mean they prefer to act out rather than accept their place in society.
     
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  22. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    orcs aren't violent murderers, they just have socioeconomic issues
     
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  23. But it can be.
     
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  24. jungl Augur

    jungl
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    Applying communist marxist mental illness to real life is one thing but to fantasy? Person must be so larping in fantasy land delusional they have to be a tranny.
     
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  25. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    fantasy is a completely natural place for applying communism because it's the only place it works
     
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