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How would you like your Vault Dweller?

Discussion in 'Site Feedback' started by DarkUnderlord, Nov 14, 2007.

?

How would you like your VD?

  1. VD given the power, and the Final Solution to the LULZ

    3 vote(s)
    100.0%
  2. VD returns as Editor-in-Chief, and he doesn't agree to purge the forum of infidels.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. VD shares the power, we all agree to vote on which infidels to purge.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Keender_surprise Scholar

    Keender_surprise
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    Messages:
    172
    Voted C, because I agree with the proposition that having vault dweller come back as just a news poster now that the staff room's dirty laundry has been aired in public would constitute a humiliation that no self-respecting person would accept. Also, option C would not give any individual admin an excess of forum power, and so is the best compromise.
     
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  2. Nedrah Erudite

    Nedrah
    Joined:
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    1,693
    Location:
    Germany
    Well, not exactly the part of my post that I would have liked you to take notice of, but a bit of codex history is always a nice thing.
     
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  3. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    27,807
    This is so NOT the Nazi way. Shoot him, TNP.

    Edit: in response to Keender_surprise.
     
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  4. DarkUnderlord Professional Throne Sitter

    DarkUnderlord
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2002
    Messages:
    26,108
    I don't have the full e-mails between Calis and yourself. Just the long one from you with your hitlist and desire to ban them, then a PS: No, we should just warn them first. That was in the Staff Forum the morning I came back after Calis had restored yesterday's backup. This is after you had warned and banned Spacemoose and dumbfucked vrok and others.

    After reading that e-mail, I visited Site Feedback and saw a 9 page thread where on page 1, you clearly stated that if you returned you were "going to ban a lot of motherfuckers". Honestly Vault Dweller, at that time I didn't know what your position was or what you were planning to do. I took it that, given you had repeatedly stated in the thread up until that point, that you wanted to cleanse the lulz factor out and that lulz factor included people like vrok who dared to post a "Why did you ban Spacemoose" thread, that you were more interested in banning than warning. Also given that you had stated quite clearly within that thread that you had the intention to ban, not warn.

    Given I don't believe the people in your list warranted a warning (threat of being banned) for what they posted either, it means we still had the same problem. You wanted to threaten a bunch of people that we didn't felt needed to be threatened and you insisted that if you came back, it was going to be on the terms that you got to threaten them.

    Is any of that incorrect? If so, please say so and let's discuss this.
     
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  5. Lingwe Liturgist

    Lingwe
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Messages:
    519
    Location:
    australia
    What hissy fit? It cracks me up whenever anybody tries to compare Vault Dweller's moderation to that of the Bethesda forums.

    Warned or banned for flaming anybody? Nup.
    Warned or banned for swearing? Nup.
    Warned or banned for saying something sucks without saying anything else? Nup.
    Warned or banned for being offtopic? Nup.
    Threads locked when they reach 200 posts? Nup.
    Warned or banned for repeatedly praising the slaughter of Jews, repeatedly making unfunny comments about people dying, making a stupid comment "a joke" about 8 kids being killed only a short time before, posting pictures of a guy taking a crap killing a guy and raping his corpse? Hmm, I can't quite see how doing this would be construed as Bethesda level moderation.

    You would think that people were suggesting that Vault Dweller was going to turn this place into Nazi Germany just because he banned a few people (and would have banned a dozen more if he could have) who deserved it. Just because you can post whatever you want doesn't mean that you can. Doing so only makes you as stupid as the Bethesda fanboys who you mock so readily.

    Sorry to see that you don't want to continue, your unique brand of cynical humour was like a fresh cup of dragon flower tea in the morning.
     
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  6. Amasius Augur

    Amasius
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Messages:
    959
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    Thanatos
    I think that you underestimate that Saint, DU, Calis and some others know each other since the long gone Interplay message board times. That's what I meant in the other thread with The Old Guard.
     
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  7. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    27,807
    @ DarkUnderlord:

    There is no reason to prolong that drama. Everything that needed to be said has been said. You made your position very clear and the way things have unfolded, I don't believe that we have options left anymore. If you wanted to have a discussion you should have allowed Shagnak to start a discussion with me. I do admire your control over the staff members though. Very impressive.

    Anyway, no hard feelings. If you want, here is an advice. Lock or retardo all threads about the drama and let's move on already.
     
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  8. MountainWest Scholar

    MountainWest
    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    630
    Location:
    Over there
    :salute
     
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  9. Hazelnut Erudite

    Hazelnut
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,490
    Location:
    UK
    I voted C, could very well have been A, but then I don't think anyone should become all powerful dictator of the site, VD or no. I don't personally see the need for consensus before action, just some kind of checks and balances or reins if you will - but anyway that's for admins to thrash out. (democratic Codex, bah!) Even without it, I doubt the members here would ever tolerate real (rather than as previously imagined) dictatorship and consistent wielding of power for personal ego reasons.. corrupt power if you like - then you would see a fucking revolt of the masses! (until we're all banned and tumbleweed was blowing through the place)

    I also like to note that I doubt anyone (including VD) wants end to Codex humor, dark or edgy or even multi-headed dicks silliness sometimes... just not infantile, gratuitously offensive or downright moronic.
     
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  10. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    27,807
    I was there too. I knew Saint and many other folks. I was a member of the old BIS forums for a long time and I was there when they were taken down.
     
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  11. mindx2 Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter Patron

    mindx2
    Joined:
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    3,960
    Location:
    Gazing at his slowly refilling game shelves ;-)
    Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Our leader has spoken!! ... and I voted A by the way :P
     
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  12. Amasius Augur

    Amasius
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Messages:
    959
    Location:
    Thanatos
    Ah ok, I didn't knew that. When I read old threads back in my lurking days (Codex, NMA and DAC) the first signs I saw of you were you arriving here and praising Prelude to Darkness. I had the impression that you were a noob, sorry. :wink:
     
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  13. elander_ Arbiter

    elander_
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2005
    Messages:
    2,015
    Hey thats a good advice. Let's see some action for a change.
     
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  14. Shagnak Shagadelic

    Shagnak
    Joined:
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    Location:
    Arse of the world, New Zealand
    Without that last bit I would've let it go, assuming you're talking about DU aka Captain Angry interrupting things. I'm not under anyone's control, and it's not about DU "allowing" me to do anything. The thing is, we did talk about it after and DU took criticism on board and gave his solemn promise to let things progress.

    I elected not to proffer the olive branch so soon. I thought you'd be "twice bitten, thrice shy". Justifiably.
    I wanted things to cool down a bit, make some progress on other fronts, then hopefully we could all drink a big cup of "calm the fuck down" and deal with it when you're ready to. So, apologies if it looked like anything else.
     
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  15. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    27,807
    Well, I remember us agreeing to "sit down" and discuss things as that's what *you guys* should have done in the first place. Calis even made a nice, cozy, private forum for us to talk. Then DU showed up, said "Talks? What talks? No talks with terrorists!", and I don't recall you inquiring about your new status of DU's bitch. Harsh words, I know, but it's kinda hard to read the situation differently.

    Anyway, I love you and I didn't mean to offend.

    Sure, but you could have made sure that I was only bitten once, no?
     
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  16. Ismaul Citizen First Class #3333 Patron

    Ismaul
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    Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    There is only one option, C. The rest is bullshit.

    Why would anyone working for the better of this site have more power than any other admin? This is only bound to result in conflict and frustration. If you're all going to work together, make it so. No fucking exceptions. Compromise, or rather cooperation, is what it should be and have been all along. Everyone on staff, with staff decisions. Other options are for idiots that don't really want to work together for the common good of the Codex.
     
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  17. vrok Liturgist

    vrok
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    738
    Agreed, the other voters are selfish and suck ass. C is win.
     
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  18. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    27,807
    I never wanted to have more powers than other admin. If you recall, I wanted everyone's agreement on the new course of actions and didn't want to do anything without everyone's consent.
     
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  19. Ismaul Citizen First Class #3333 Patron

    Ismaul
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    Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    I'm not talking about you in particular. I'm just stating my view on the options presented, in a general manner. And if you want agreement with other admins, then option C it is and we see eye to eye on this.
     
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  20. dagorkan Arbiter

    dagorkan
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
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    5,164
    Can you post it?
     
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  21. kingcomrade Kingcomrade Edgy

    kingcomrade
    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Cognitive Elite HQ
    Actually, I just looked and I don't have them any more, my inbox got to 90% or something so I deleted all my old ones a couple months ago. It wasn't anything special, I don't remember what he wrote but I remember I responded with "I can't be racist, some of my best friends are niggers."
     
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  22. MisterStone Arcane

    MisterStone
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    9,422
    I'm gonna vote A. I was leaning towards C, but I think that we can trust VD enough to keep a well-run and reasonably tolerant site.

    I haven't been here very long, but I have seen some of the worst the Codex has to offer. I've seen people go on posting obnoxiously stupid Nazi shit for weeks unmolested, posts linking to murder vids and pictures of the most twistedly perverse sexual acts known to mankind, and page after page of 9/11 truther nonsense. If we can trust VD to let this stuff go on without "flying off the handle" more than once or twice every few months, then I think we can trust him not to curb the dark, irreverent and often mean vein of humor that makes this site what it is. Just because he barked at Spacemoose and threatened him does not mean that he was going to ban him for life for being a dumbass... something that was confirmed by both parties later on before all hell broke lose.

    This is not a country, it is a fairly small group of people engaged in a limited range of behaviors, and I think we can recognize when someone here is being obnoxious without being funny, which I suppose is one of many good working definitions for "dumbfuck". Seriously, what is the absolute worst thing that could happen if VD continued to have unlimited moderating authority? What's ironic is that up until the past couple of months people seemed to be more pissed off that he wasn't cracking enough skulls, rather than the other way around.

    BTW, I remember the incident where KC got warned. It was my first exposure to tubgirl in all her glory. I had managed to avoid looking at that kind of shit for years, only to be laid low by his cheap ambush tactics. I'm glad that KC was warned, but I also think that the fact that VD warned him rather than booted him says alot about VD's moderating style and about this site.
     
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  23. Slylandro Scholar

    Slylandro
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    Messages:
    705
    I don't see A as implying that VD will have more power. If anything it probably would imply that DU, Calis, and Shagnak would also have the power to purge the forums of infidels as they saw fit, without need for consensus. If they don't use this power, that is their own prerogative and does not mean they have any actual less power. I imagine in the case of A winning that VD will not use this power "for real" but rather to teach lulzers a lesson so to speak. Even DU acknowledges that VD rarely ever bans anyone for real (ie no second chance).

    To me, the way VD dealt with the lulzers recently and in the past is akin to disciplining a child. When your kid pisses you off by doing something wrong, you don't just kill him (i.e. permaban). You don't just laugh it off and ignore it either until it becomes a serious problem (DU solution). You make him sit in the corner and you talk it out with him until he learns his lesson, at which point he no longer needs to be in the corner (unbanned). DU and some others interpreted this as lack of decisiveness of VD's part but I'm not so certain about that. I could certainly see the merit of that approach.

    As for the Codex losing all the humor because of people getting banned left and right (this part is not in response to Ismaul btw), you gotta be kidding me. All the best drama and lulz that was generated in the last month was 90% due to people getting banned and/or dumbfucked. Think of voting option A as flushing the forums of all unfunny lulzers and generating real hilarity in their wake.

    And hey, DU doesn't totally lose if option A wins, either. He can use this opportunity to off kc like he's apparently wanted to for some time, and get someone who actually deserves to be a mod. :lol:

    P.S. Did VD actually say he would return even if option A won? I haven't seen proof of this, maybe I missed it.
     
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  24. Claw Erudite Patron

    Claw
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
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    3,777
    Location:
    The center of my world.
    Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
    My religious love for VD left me no choice here. All hail our Supreme Leader!
     
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  25. Zomg Arbiter

    Zomg
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Messages:
    6,984
    No, this vote is most of the Codex begging him to come back in our best pitiful bitch impression. In this end it's just giving VD some extra ordnance for when he gives the Codex a big Fuck You after stringing DU and Tacticular Cancer on for a bit to make Shag and baby arm feel shitty.
     
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