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HUMANKIND - Amplitude's historical turn-based strategy

Jimmious

Arcane
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May 18, 2015
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
civ6 used mechanics of EL, not the other way around
I know that.

The comparison is with Civ because it covers the same theme, Civilization development etc
If you are saying its a Civ with EL mechanics, it's better I guess, but still nothing exciting, for me at least. EL combat kinda sucked tbh (although better than the atrocity of Civ6 and its braindead AI)
 

Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Looks exactly like Endless Legend...

Which is already a Civ competitor?
 

oscar

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I like the concept of mixing and matching different aspects of historical cultures so you could end up with something like seaborne Zulu vikings or Scandinavian zen warrior monks. It always seemed a bit silly in Civ how you could have Mongols spawn on a continent with no horses or Polynesians 30 hexes inland in the middle of a desert, therefore invalidating pretty much everything the civilisation's gameplay was centered for. Could also lead to some fun transitional gameplay, like starting out as a rampaging warrior barbarians and then transitioning to a money-grubbing merchant people.

But too early to say much beyond I'm glad someone else other than Firaxis is finally taking a swing at the Civ pie.
 

PrettyDeadman

Guest
So far all what is shown is comepletely different from any of the civ games. I am not sure that about any significant mechanic shown it can be said that it is like in civ game.
 

Citizen

Guest
But too early to say much beyond I'm glad someone else other than Firaxis is finally taking a swing at the Civ pie.

There were some civ killers in the last year - Agressors: Ancient Rome and At the Gates. Seems like both failed
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Pretty you want to believe, eh? I won't stop you. Let the good vibes out
 

PrettyDeadman

Guest
Pretty you want to believe, eh? I won't stop you. Let the good vibes out
Unless you believe that Endless Legend / Age of Wonders are Civ clones, the question should be, what different HUMANKIND can offer that Endless Legend cannot (since mechanically they seem to be identical, judging but what was shown). Civilization shouldn't even be mentioned in this conversation.
 

Mazisky

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So, it's basically EL reskinned with Civ 6 assets? Did they pay royalties to Firaxis? Gameplay will be different for sure, but graphics and art look exactly like Civ 6
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Pretty you want to believe, eh? I won't stop you. Let the good vibes out
Unless you believe that Endless Legend / Age of Wonders are Civ clones, the question should be, what different HUMANKIND can offer that Endless Legend cannot (since mechanically they seem to be identical, judging but what was shown). Civilization shouldn't even be mentioned in this conversation.
It is mentioned because HUMANKIND is targetting the exact core concept of Civ, building a Civilization on your own in a 4X game etc
I guess you are right and they have more EL mechanics than Civ but they are aiming to challenge Civ and to me they didn't display anything that makes me think they'll do a better job.
In their place I would have focused on some unique and interesting features of the game instead of displaying some cities, some armies and the typical landscape of a 4X
 

PrettyDeadman

Guest
Pretty you want to believe, eh? I won't stop you. Let the good vibes out
Unless you believe that Endless Legend / Age of Wonders are Civ clones, the question should be, what different HUMANKIND can offer that Endless Legend cannot (since mechanically they seem to be identical, judging but what was shown). Civilization shouldn't even be mentioned in this conversation.
It is mentioned because HUMANKIND is targetting the exact core concept of Civ, building a Civilization on your own in a 4X game etc
I guess you are right and they have more EL mechanics than Civ but they are aiming to challenge Civ and to me they didn't display anything that makes me think they'll do a better job.
In their place I would have focused on some unique and interesting features of the game instead of displaying some cities, some armies and the typical landscape of a 4X
every 4x game in existence is about building your civilization/faction. I am sure this will be no different.
What is going to happen is this:
the game will be mostly similar to EL (which means compeltely different from civ), which means but differences between factions won't be as radical, at least at start. as the game progresses there are going to be opportunity to specialize your civ more via tech/social research.
I am 90% certain you will be able to spread your citizens between working on 4 categories - food/production/gold/research or influence points farming. Not sure if there will be influence points or neutral factions relationships similar to EL. I am pretty sure army customization will work in similar way (you can equip units with different gear). Not sure if there will be hero units, at least for combat, but heros governing cities will probably remain in one form or another.
 

Mazisky

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Pretty you want to believe, eh? I won't stop you. Let the good vibes out
Unless you believe that Endless Legend / Age of Wonders are Civ clones, the question should be, what different HUMANKIND can offer that Endless Legend cannot (since mechanically they seem to be identical, judging but what was shown). Civilization shouldn't even be mentioned in this conversation.
It is mentioned because HUMANKIND is targetting the exact core concept of Civ, building a Civilization on your own in a 4X game etc
I guess you are right and they have more EL mechanics than Civ but they are aiming to challenge Civ and to me they didn't display anything that makes me think they'll do a better job.
In their place I would have focused on some unique and interesting features of the game instead of displaying some cities, some armies and the typical landscape of a 4X

They already showed one thing better than CIV: if you look close at the gameplay video, you will notice that within the cities there are tiny citizen actually moving!!! :D
 

Mazisky

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From PcgamesN:

“The battle system is very inspired by what we had in Legend, except in Legend, we wanted to have quick battles, and our community asked us ‘please give us full control over our battles and units.’ So we listened to them, so now they have full control over the battles, over the units. It’s a tactical combat.”
Humankind’s combat uses armies – “not dozens of units all around, just a few armies, a few cities.” These “tactical, battle-based armies,” which can be combined with other armies in the game, not only make the experience easier to control, but are a feature unique to Humankind – “it’s only us doing that.”
 

Thal

Augur
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
413
So combat is a bit like HoMM or MoM then? Would be incline imo. I think there's definitely room for a civclone provided they can carve their own niche. Too bad the art direction is cartoony in the same way we've seen CIV series turn out since CIV2. I'd like to have more historical and realistic take on it, even though CIV was always the casual 4X.
 
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Humankind is going after Sid Meier’s Civilization, and it’s not messing around. I watched a demo of the game last week, and I’m excited about this 4X strategy epic, due out next year on PC. My main takeaway is that Sega-owned developer Amplitude Studios is bringing fresh ideas to a format that’s long been dominated by Firaxis’ sure and steady sense of evolution. Grand historical strategy is getting the shake-up that it deserves.

The basic template is familiar enough, but the difference is in the details. I begin with a settler unit on a hexagonal map that’s dotted with hills, forests, rivers, and special resources. I settle a city, research technologies, build units, explore, build districts, fight enemies, expand, build wonders, and try to become the most impressive civilization in the world.

But here’s where things get interesting. Instead of choosing to be a single civilization, such as the Aztecs or the Germans or the Zulu, I pick and choose from a variety of cultures through six ages of history. So, in the bronze age I can be Hittite or Egyptian or Olmec or seven others. Each of those civs has a different emphasis in terms of units and traits. One might be better at technology, another at military.

So, if I choose Egyptian, I gain advantages from rivers and I build pyramids. My armies rely heavily on chariots. As the classical era begins, I’m offered another 10 new cultures, including Roman. When I make my selection, I keep all my Egyptian stuff, but I tack on the works of the Romans, such as legions, early industry, and efficient roadworks. Each of the game’s six eras offers 10 cultures, right up to the modern age.

Strategically, I’m picking the cultures that fit my needs through history. If I’ve reached the early modern era and I’m running behind on scientific innovation, I need to make a selection that improves my position. I’m also making personal and aesthetic choices. Maybe my culture is crying out for a Mesoamerican influence, or a taste of France.

As the game progresses, my cities, my culture, and my military become a melting pot of different influences. My early charioteers survive through to later ages, but are upgraded and modernized along the way, always keeping that Egyptian feel. Ancient marvels of north Africa sit alongside the beauty of medieval European cathedrals.

By the time I’ve made my six picks, from 10 options in each era, the nature of my culture is one of many possible alternatives. Of course, my enemies, whether human or AI, are also building their own unique cultures.

“History is about the merging of cultures and civilizations,” said Amplitude’s chief creative officer, Romain de Waubert. “They are constantly blending together.” He offers, as an example, the influence of the Greeks on the Romans, and of the Romans on the Renaissance, and of all three on the Enlightenment.

The play map is pretty in a watercolor, quasi-realistic way. Cities have a clean, pleasing look about them. Decorative creatures bound among meadows where military units shift from hex to hex. And this leads us to Humankind’s combat.

Each of my armies is a combination of different units that I’ve organized throughout history according to tactical benefit. So I might have medieval cannons alongside ancient horse warriors, supported by classical phalanx and maybe a unit of Renaissance pikemen.

In the main map, each army moves about as a single icon, but when enemy armies engage, the icon unspools upon a secondary battlefield map. This reveals the unitary make-up of each army. Terrain is also modeled in a more detailed, nuanced way than on the main map.

This takes us to a turn-based battle that looks to be influenced by X-Com. Amplitude’s Gamescom demo ended as the battle commences, so I don’t know exactly how this plays out, but I’m told that each player is given up to nine turns to try to crush the enemy. It’s certainly a change from Civ’s single-map, hexagon-based combat.

Paris-based Amplitude is best known for the Endless Space series of galactic 4X games, but according to de Waubert, Humankind is the company’s dream project. “Everything else we’ve worked on is a stepping stone to get us here,” he said.

We’ll have more on Humankind in the months ahead, including details on systems like art, trade, culture and religion.

https://www.polygon.com/2019/8/19/2...-windows-pc-release-date-preview-civilization
 

Hellraiser

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Please tell me that Neanderthals are not just in the trailer as a marketing ploy. I want to make 'thals great again, put their titanium bones to work and build that electric organ space station as the ultimate middle finger to inferior 'sap "culture".

Also as long as the tactical combat is indeed proper turn based and not the whatever the fuck it was in Endless Legend this might end up being good. EL's main problems for me are the meh combat mechanics (still better than ES1 or ES2), braindead AI and not very deep city/economical layer.

Mixing cultures sounds like a brilliant twist on the formula.
 

Zboj Lamignat

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Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,523
Guys, just look at the dev's track record. I'm their fan, but expecting good combat from them is fabulously optimistic.

That said, EL combat is instant incline over nu-civ just because it can be auto-resolved.
 

Morkar Left

Guest
No more than age of wonders is civ competitor.
Nice try.

Even here on the Dex, the Civ 6 thread is full of "lol just play EL instead" posts.
I mean they are both 4x. Distant worlds must be another civ competitor (and probably more like civ than el).

Field of Glory Empires would be a way better civ competitor in that sense. But the appeal for civ is that it spans the whole history of mankind from cavemen to space (and we all wish it would turn into a space civ 4x after starting that rocket).
 

Hellraiser

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Guys, just look at the dev's track record. I'm their fan, but expecting good combat from them is fabulously optimistic.

That said, EL combat is instant incline over nu-civ just because it can be auto-resolved.

The thing about their games is that the combat is getting slightly better with each new games. EL's was almost acceptable so there is a chance. Still, seeing is believing.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
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Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,523
Guys, just look at the dev's track record. I'm their fan, but expecting good combat from them is fabulously optimistic.

That said, EL combat is instant incline over nu-civ just because it can be auto-resolved.

The thing about their games is that the combat is getting lightly better with each of their games. EL's was almost acceptable. Still, seeing is believing.
Not my experience. It basically went from non-existent (+based on weird meta) in ES1 to now it exists, but is shit so you better autoresolve in EL to non-existent (+based on weird meta) again in ES2. Although I can reiterate that I still like it better than nu-civ just because it does not take shitload of time while being completely mind-numbing.
 

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