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I am playing Dragon Age Origins

vota DC

Augur
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Messages
2,267
Combat is terrible: 2 mages = autowin. You can have 2 very soon if you start as mage, you can have also 3 mages.
If you play with tanks and thieves only you must use "bombs" for some encounters, mass darkspawns are more difficult than bosses if you lack mages.
 

Krivol

Magister
Joined
Apr 21, 2012
Messages
1,993
Location
Potatoland aka Prussia
Everyone praising this clusterfuck game is a moron. Stupid plot, boring chars with idiotic motivations, shit easy fights, lame writing and false choices. World building random and inconsistent. And your teammates stories- to stomach them you must be brainless faggot with anime-waifu pillow. I've seen my little pony episodes with more love, story and sense than this shit

Wysłane z mojego SM-J530F przy użyciu Tapatalka
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
Warrior and rogue is basically the same class, mage is overpowered, and you can have infinite potions by a sort of legitimate exploit. That's the gist of the gameplay, really. It's still engaging enough to hold your attention until you beat the game, but nothing special. It's still better than the abominations that came after that, although that's little comfort. Companions are mostly cringe-y, Loghain could've been interesting, but Bioware lack the subtlety and fine touch needed to do such a politically-charged character justice. Shale is fun. The overall plot is Disney-esque "friendship will conquer all evil" deal, the dwarven city is probably the best of the bunch because you get to actually choose between 2 valid leader choices. The game strongly pushes you towards the conservative guy, but the eventual better outcome is the "progressive" guy who killed the dwarf noble origin's father (who is also his own father). Baelen?

At the end of the day, it's playable and unique, even if it could've been more. Bioware should've continued with this style of gameplay if they wanted to "modernize" their RPGs, not the eventual shitfest that this franchise became.
 
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Jarmaro

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
1,467
Location
Lair of Despair
Loghain's character inffuriates every time I think about it. it's almost as if someone made some real grey character, but then realized players are too dumb to understand him, so they changed him to make some dumb evil things like selling elves to slavery. It wasn't necesary, him trying to seize power as his way to make things better was enough.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,522
Loghain's character inffuriates every time I think about it. it's almost as if someone made some real grey character, but then realized players are too dumb to understand him, so they changed him to make some dumb evil things like selling elves to slavery. It wasn't necesary, him trying to seize power as his way to make things better was enough.
The whole thing about money is a bit rocky when you realise that Howe and his lackeys were getting very rich in the chaos. The thief line of quests in Denerim could net you a pretty bundle (enough to buy end game equipment, IIRC) and those were just a few quick robberies. Howe had entire crates of silver bars stash away in warehouses, for example. Just who was really selling elves off to slavery? As I said before, putting Howe in the picture was a damned good move on the part of the writers. It muddied the waters up nicely.
 

moon knight

Matt7895's alt
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
1,101
Location
Italy
14) THE FADE IS FUCKING AWESOME! Yes you have to repeat some areas and there are puzzles which dumb people struggle with, but it is really fun to play. Turn into the fire guy and fireball a huge group of enemies, then turn into the magic immune guy to imprison tough things and heal yourself. I suspect a lot of the people who didn't enjoy the Fade didn't know that your hotbar changes with each illusion. So you can win against anything with the right choice, and if you don't notice the hotbar change, people would try to play the whole thing as their own character and only use the illusions for the walking through fire bits etc.

Ha!

I thought it was a serious post (I was even going to ask for the restorations mods) until this. You got me, mate.
 

Popiel

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 15, 2015
Messages
1,499
Location
Commonwealth
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
As years go by I find myself more and more on the side of people who say that there should be more Fade-like segments and less Deep Roads-like pure trash.
 

visions

Arcane
Joined
Jun 10, 2007
Messages
1,801
Location
here
How is that any different to BG2 or TOEE or any other RPG?

It's a difference of degree. I'm not exaggerating when I say that I had two approaches to combat that carried me through the vast majority of the fights after the mage tower. I was always using the same powers and spells in the same manner over and over again and combined with the amount of combat in the game, it simply became tiresome.

Probably what I did wasn't always optimal but since in order to really screw up, you had to suffer a party wipe (since it didn't matter if you won a combat with only one guy standing in the end since everyone would simply get up again after each fight. There was an injury system but iirc it didn't have much of an impact), I seldom had to alter my tactics. What I did over and over again was good enough to almost never suffer a party wipe, which was all that was required, since due to the lack of attrition the finer details didn't matter.

In BG or TOEE if I screw up but manage to still win a fight while suffering casualities, I will probably decide to redo the fight. In Dragon Age if I screw up but manage to still win a fight with only one char standing, everybody gets up after the combat, all is well and I can continue going through the fights on autopilot.
 
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Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
In BG or TOEE if I screw up but manage to still win a fight while suffering casualities, I will probably decide to redo the fight. In Dragon Age if I screw up but manage to still win a fight with only one char standing, everybody gets up after the combat, all is well and I can continue going through the fights on autopilot.
How are these two situations different at all?
Most people save scunmed so developers changed the way games work due to it. You have only yourself to blame.
 

visions

Arcane
Joined
Jun 10, 2007
Messages
1,801
Location
here
In BG, I will have to try a fight until I can beat it with no/acceptable casualities. In Dragon Age I will succeed at the first attempt, since the casualities don't matter, as long as I have one dude standing in the end. "Save scumming" is not the problem. This has fuck all to do with savescumming. Trying a fight until you can beat it with acceptable casualities is not save scumming. It's normal crpg gameplay.

The problem is that in Dragon Age, the treshold for success in combat is not suffering a party wipe, so the game is far too easy most of the time.
 

Incendax

Augur
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
892
In BG, I will have to try a fight until I can beat it with no/acceptable casualities. In Dragon Age I will succeed at the first attempt, since the casualities don't matter, as long as I have one dude standing in the end. "Save scumming" is not the problem. This has fuck all to do with savescumming. Trying a fight until you can beat it with acceptable casualities is not save scumming. It's normal crpg gameplay.
That’s save scumming. You’re talking about the same outcome, except one has more loading screens. If you stuck with the outcome of your party members being dead, that would be a different matter.
 

visions

Arcane
Joined
Jun 10, 2007
Messages
1,801
Location
here
Outcome isn't the point, the point is how you reach the outcome. Trying a combat again until you get a result you're happy with is save scumming only if you're trying your luck with gaming the RNG. If you try a combat several times and change your tactics in order to get a satisfying outcome, that's not savescumming, that's playing the fucking game.

The problem with Dragon Age in this context is that it never forces you to improve, as long as you can avoid a party wipe. Why would I learn how to play the game better, when it doesn't matter how much I fuck up and how many of my party members fall, when after the combat they all get up again?
 

Deleted Member 22431

Guest
If you pick the city elf origin your friend gets raped.
24665.jpg
 

Deleted Member 22431

Guest
Because you're mostly fighting the same 3-4 Darkspawn over and over again. The bestiary of DA is a lot smaller and less varied than BG2 and similar crpgs.
But meele in DAO is miles ahead of BG2. There is no comparison.
 

Incendax

Augur
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
892
Outcome isn't the point, the point is how you reach the outcome. Trying a combat again until you get a result you're happy with is save scumming only if you're trying your luck with gaming the RNG. If you try a combat several times and change your tactics in order to get a satisfying outcome, that's not savescumming, that's playing the fucking game.
If you reload a game of chess until you win, you’re savescumming. It’s totally fine if that makes you happy. It’s a single player game. But don’t lie about it.
 

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
Looks like anvi is fishing for an upgrade to the dumbfuck tag if you ask me. DAO's engine is just a bugprone, slow, and leaky sack of shit. Making DAO mods is a sufficient nuisance that there are almost no custom campaigns, so even though DAO's engine is supposed to be a significant upgrade on NWN's, the NWN modders stayed there. The graphics looked bland and meh even when it was released. They were serviceable, sure, but they definitely weren't impressive. When it comes to the writing, a lot of DAO party member dialogue is downright infantile. The story isn't particularly compelling either because there barely is any. You have to raise an army to deal with the darkspawn, oh, and there's a nominal villain too. That's about it. Then you have some subadventures. The game does a bad job of properly drawing you into the storyworld and basically encourages you to waste tons of time sidequesting minute optional shit even though you're supposedly racing against the clock to raise an army before the darkspawn kill everyone. Rogue stealth is a joke (it's basically an invisibility button, that's about it), combat is really easily broken, and Rogues and Warriors are indeed dull as fuck. They have barely any abilities with significant effects outside of damage. If you want to make a rogue feel less like dull shit, maybe fuck around with archery (it has better debuffing abilities) and start using traps and poisons. Warriors can at least make up a bit for their dull abilities with their specializations. The Fade is the most infamous level in the entire game, to the point that Skip the Fade is one of the most popular DAO mods.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
They did a few cool things with the setting, and the aesthetic is nothing if not unique. DA2 also proved the setting has the potential to tell all kinds of stories, not only the Bioware cliche. Tbh, I think it is the biggest strength of this franchise, but they lack the writing chops to really dig into it. Just a few snippets of interesting here and there aren't enough. Although now that I think about it, they went into a completely different direction in DA2, and they proved they can have character-driven narratives that are meaningful in some way. So it's not like the Obsidian writing team, where writing anything character-driven is beyond them anymore. Too bad BW totally let it rot with Inquisition, such a terrible game.
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
In BG or TOEE if I screw up but manage to still win a fight while suffering casualities, I will probably decide to redo the fight. In Dragon Age if I screw up but manage to still win a fight with only one char standing, everybody gets up after the combat, all is well and I can continue going through the fights on autopilot.
How are these two situations different at all?
Most people save scunmed so developers changed the way games work due to it. You have only yourself to blame.

save scumming is reload abuse to avoid any bad consequences whatsoever. reloading because you got sodomized in every hole in an encounter isn't save scumming.

DAO is shit, nothing to do with difficulty, it's just painfully boring. The combat is boring, the warrior and thief are boring, the story is boring, the companions are boring (except the dwarf who is only amusing because he's a ripoff of every other drunken dwarf stereotype ever made), even the interface is boring.
 

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
7,549
Location
Kelethin
14) Not convinced by the argument that TOEE/BG is less repetitive, I think they are more repetitive. Mage Tower is not a great example either because it is so early in the game. Especially with my rogue main character who mostly has shitty passives. I have about 4 things to click.. But it does get better later on. It is no more repetitive than any other RPG, and in fact, I recently quit Kingmaker on chapter 4 because every fight was IDENTICAL and also couldn't be put into tactics either so you had to cast every single spell manually. This game is less repetitive than that because the trash fights mostly play out automated, and the boss fights are different every time. Yeah my Rogue and Warrior hit the same abilities every time, healer is a bit more reactive, but my control mage is different in every fight. Sometimes it is better to quickly blast down the boss, sometimes it is better to try to control him and kill all the trash first, sometimes he is immune to control, sometimes the boss's ally is immune to control and it is best to kill him first and sometimes there are so many and my healer can't keep up so I need to thin the numbers asap, sometimes the enemies have a strong healer that needs killing first, one fight the boss is basically untouchable because he teleports to 4 corners of the room constantly and creates a huge lightning storm on that spot each time, so if you try to chase him you die in seconds. This game is far less repetitive than other RPGs.

15)
Combat is terrible: 2 mages = autowin. You can have 2 very soon if you start as mage, you can have also 3 mages.
If you play with tanks and thieves only you must use "bombs" for some encounters, mass darkspawns are more difficult than bosses if you lack mages.
That doesn't make combat terrible. I agree 2 mages is too powerful though. My first play through was 2 mages, one had a big lightning storm, other had a big firestorm. I think one had the ice storm too, so 2 or 3 storms on top of a big group of mobs was the end of that battle. But you only get to that point nearer the end of the game, and you shouldn't dismiss the entire combat because of that one balance issue. I am playing it now with 0 storms because I went with rogue instead of mage on the hero character, and my only mage character (Morrigan) has only control spells.

16) This game is hard as balls now. I have a lot of mods that change all sorts of things so maybe one of those nerfed my mage and made enemies harder or something, or maybe not having 2 mages made a big difference. Some fights I do better than last time, but a lot of fights I get completely destroyed. My single healer just can't keep up with heals, and the others can't do enough damage to smack stuff down. There was a fight I had to abandon after 20 attempts, not sure if it is supposed to be beatable or if I am supposed to go back there later in the game or something. But damn... it was hard. It was in the elven forest region when hunting werewolves, I click a grave and a big bunch of enemies spawn, one yellow, several whites, but one orange which is super strong. It casts a spell that pulls all the characters towards him, then he does a big area attack that takes every character down to about 5% health. I can usually keep my healer and mage away, but my rogue and tank get pulled in and unless you pause that exact time and do a group heal or pop potions, they instantly die. But even after landing the heal/pots, the damage still continues and it is impossible to keep on top of it. And also my damage is barely touching the big guy. I tried ganking the yellow guy first but my team died to the orange guy before we could even kill him. Truly brutal fight, harder than any other RPG I've played and I've played them all. I will try again after I get a level or two, but it may just scale to my level and I may end up needing to pop every last scroll and potion to win that fight. All the other boss fights I've done so far have been perfect, I either win first time or after 1 or 2 reloads.

17) Mob variety is not a problem. Yes there is a lot of derkspern, but you are fighting an invasion so it makes sense, and at least they are varied in their type a bit. But there are also plenty of spiders, wolves, bears, bandits, and many other types of things. As someone above said, if you count the mob numbers, this game has more. It seems there are a lot of negative views of this game that are factually wrong.

18.) I kinda regret taking a rogue instead of mage. I did it because I wanted a different experience and it achieved that, so I'm ok with it. But it is a lot less fun to play than a mage. Although I think it will get better later on once he gets more things to click instead of so many passives. Also in my previous game I had Wynn as my healer and my main character was a nuker mage but I gave him a heal spell which helped out against swarms of enemies when the damage peaked at the start. I could spam healing just to survive the start of a battle and once a few of the enemies were dead, things settled down and mage could get back to nuking. I can't do that anymore because rogue so no heals, so I am using potions which I never used at all last time. Also on a couple of fights I have had a character get knocked out so I have had to use injury kits. I loot enough potions and kits that I keep about equal, but still, this play through is a lot tougher, more challenging, and different to my last play through.

19)
Ha!
I thought it was a serious post (I was even going to ask for the restorations mods) until this. You got me, mate.
What don't you like about the Fade exactly? My second play through I used a "Skip the Fade" mod, so I can understand not liking it. It must have been enough of a chore for me on my first play that I skipped it the second time. But this time I decided to do it because I had forgotten so much about it, and I realised how good it is. As someone said on the previous page, it is just a change from the rest of the game. I completed the whole thing in about 1-2 hours, I got about 10 permanent ability points, and I got to play what felt like an entirely new game, running around with one character, shapeshifting into different forms with their own unique hotbar, it was more like Shang Tsung from Mortal Kombat than it was an RPG and I enjoyed it. Again, I think anyone who doesn't like the Fade likely doesn't understand it. They likely tried to play it with their gimpy original character instead of using the shape shift forms which is the entire point.

20)
I think it is only shallower than D&D in the higher levels, but this game doesn't get to higher levels. I think if they made the BG2 equivalent of this game, it would have been amazing. Higher level characters with some more spells and things.
Awakening expansion would be the "high level" and it's completely broken (in terms of both mechanics and bugs lel). Liked it more than the original campaign, though.
Awakening was just more of the same, what I want is a true sequel that adds more levels and more abilities on top of what you got originally.

21)
Looks like anvi is fishing for an upgrade to the dumbfuck tag if you ask me. DAO's engine is just a bugprone, slow, and leaky sack of shit. Making DAO mods is a sufficient nuisance that there are almost no custom campaigns, so even though DAO's engine is supposed to be a significant upgrade on NWN's, the NWN modders stayed there. The graphics looked bland and meh even when it was released. They were serviceable, sure, but they definitely weren't impressive. When it comes to the writing, a lot of DAO party member dialogue is downright infantile. The story isn't particularly compelling either because there barely is any. You have to raise an army to deal with the darkspawn, oh, and there's a nominal villain too. That's about it. Then you have some subadventures. The game does a bad job of properly drawing you into the storyworld and basically encourages you to waste tons of time sidequesting minute optional shit even though you're supposedly racing against the clock to raise an army before the darkspawn kill everyone. Rogue stealth is a joke (it's basically an invisibility button, that's about it), combat is really easily broken, and Rogues and Warriors are indeed dull as fuck. They have barely any abilities with significant effects outside of damage. If you want to make a rogue feel less like dull shit, maybe fuck around with archery (it has better debuffing abilities) and start using traps and poisons. Warriors can at least make up a bit for their dull abilities with their specializations. The Fade is the most infamous level in the entire game, to the point that Skip the Fade is one of the most popular DAO mods.
That bit about the engine makes no sense, I played at release and now 90 years later and it is rock solid and never seen a problem with it. Maybe try removing all your toolbars from your desktop, grandma.
Not every game should have a huge part of its development time creating an editor that lets people make new content for the game. NWN is pretty unique in that respect so why would you expect everything to have the same feature? It has never been done since which suggests it wasn't worthwhile which if you think about the finances of it... makes sense. Why spend all that extra time making something that people don't care about when just having some mods is enough?
There is plenty of story, whether it is compelling or not is up to you, but it isn't any worse than any other RPGs imo. I agree the dialogue is infantile though, but I can't think of a single game that wasn't. The side quests are fine, they make them as something to do on the side of the main quest because that's what people seem to like... Why pick on this game for it when almost every RPG does it? Also at least in this game they involve hunting a werewolf in a well made (and hand made) dungeon forest, the equivalent in other games is always such garbage, even the likes of Pillars of Eternity.
Rogues and Warriors have a hell of a lot more than almost every RPG ever made. Do you really need someone to list the warrior and rogue abilities from BG2 and compare it to this? There is quality over quantity with this game though, each ability is important, taunt and de-taunt was nice to have, stuns can be used at the perfect time, and abilities work together to create a boost which hardly any RPGs do. You can also evolve them into sub classes, although admittedly 4 more abilities isn't much, but on top of what you already have it makes the melee in this game better than anything you could compare it to.

22) There are a lot of boss fights! This is the main thing that was missing from Kingmaker. All that time killing crap that dies in 2 seconds... This game is so much better, even trash you have to be wary of and the boss fights are really great. I just did the teleporting demon. I died first time. He teleports to corners of the room and does big lightning storm that hurts. I just couldn't heal through it, my only option was to keep everyone in the middle and shoot him from range which seemed to work.
 
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alyvain

Learned
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Messages
376
They did a few cool things with the setting, and the aesthetic is nothing if not unique.

I think the setting is a convoluted mess. They tried to use the Blight as the core world mechanics (like pretty much in George Martin's world is built upon the seasons, including White Walkers and social constructs, or like everything in Morrowind is built around CHIM and all that mind-fucky stuff and whatever drugs Kirkbride was doing in college), but they didn't have the guts to build all the lore around this concept, so apart from that they went for generic fantasy blend. Just with Qunari (they're kinda cool).

They tried to add the world a flavour with the Fade and the Golden City, making these concepts the cornerstone of the Blight, but honestly even in the first game it was obvious that all metaphysical stuff was just a placeholder. The games (again, compare it with TES) can't wrestle such complicated concepts for shit.

DA "lore" lacks any single substantial core concepts, so it has no unity, no cohesion, no purpose.

I didn't play Inquisition (well, I dropped it after two hours), but all that ridiculous EARTH SPIRIT TITAN SHIT is a clear indicator that they simply don't know what to do with the universe they created.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
I think the setting is a convoluted mess. They tried to use the Blight as the core world mechanics (like pretty much in George Martin's world is built upon the seasons, including White Walkers and social constructs, or like everything in Morrowind is built around CHIM and all that mind-fucky stuff and the drugs Kirkbride was doing in college), but they didn't have the guts to build all the lore around this concept, so apart from that they went for generic fantasy blend. Just with Qunari (they're kinda cool).

They tried to add the world a flavour with the Fade and the Golden City, making these concepts the cornerstone of the Blight, but honestly even in the first game it was obvious that all metaphysical stuff was just a placeholder. The games (again, compare it with TES) can't wrestle such complicated concepts for shit.

DA "lore" lacks any single substantial core concepts, so it has no unity, no cohesion, no purpose.

I didn't play Inquisition (well, I dropped it after two hours), but all that ridiculous EARTH SPIRIT TITAN SHIT is a clear indicator that they simply don't know what to do with the universe they created.
I don't think they tried to base the entire thing on the Blight, quite the contrary, there were a lot of things happening outside of that, the political situation in the dwarven city, Loghain and his paranoia, the demons, the religious imagery (I think the religion is well done), the Qunari, Tevinter, Orlais, etc. etc. It's a pretty wealthy setting with a lot that is going on. There is no "single core concept" because there doesn't need to be one. PoE has the souls and it's terrible. Creating "block" universes is a mark of not understanding our own one. I also don't think it goes overboard with lore (I haven't read the lore entries beyond what interested me), everything that has been established has been used in some way or another, which is more than can be said about most games and even fantasy novels. BW couldn't squeeze much of interest from it, but that doesn't reflect bad on the setting, just on their writing ability. They did enough to make it believable and worth exploring. Really, every argument of setting genericness can be shut down by pointing at DA2 and Awakening.
 
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