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I owe an apology to Shadowrun: Dragonfall

Faarbaute

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
763
- Glory was victim of an abusive parent and guru.
Glory would be the most egregious example in Dragonfall. She's so edgy she literally has metal claws for hands.

It's really in Shadowrun:HK where it gets to a degree where it made me abandon my playthrough, though.

Can you cite other games in the genre that are more mature in comparison, just so I can pinpoint what you're talking here?
Fallout? If you mean just RPGs in general. If you mean in reference to the companions, I would cite the black ranger bro in Pathfinder:Kingmaker as a good example of a likeable "mature" companion, even though he's saddled with a cliche backstory as well.

If you mean other cyberpunk games, I'm at a loss - It's also the reason I'm asking. Because I was wondering whether it would be fair to judge the game as harshly as I'm inclined to do after having abandoned Shadowrun: HK in utter disgust, or not.

edit: to clarify: I don't mean that the themes aren't mature. I mean that they are depicted in a juvenile and edgy fashion.
 
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Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,781
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
- Glory was victim of an abusive parent and guru.
Glory would be the most egregious example in Dragonfall. She's so edgy she literally has metal claws for hands.

It's really in Shadowrun:HK where it gets to a degree where it made me abandon my playthrough, though.

Can you cite other games in the genre that are more mature in comparison, just so I can pinpoint what you're talking here?
Fallout? If you mean just RPGs in general. If you mean in reference to the companions, I would cite the black ranger bro in Pathfinder:Kingmaker as a good example of a likeable "mature" companion, even though he's saddled with a cliche backstory as well.

If you mean other cyberpunk games, I'm at a loss - It's also the reason I'm asking. Because I was wondering whether it would be fair to judge the game as harshsly as I'm inclined to do after having abandoned Shadowrun: HK in utter disgust, or not.

edit: to clarify: I don't mean that the themes aren't mature. I mean that they are depicted in a juvenile and edgy fashion.
Is it fair to compare Dragonfall to Fallout though? Fallout never touches personal themes whatsoever and keeps to the kind of sanitized American action flick fantasy of "plot-worldbuilding-funny jokes" I cited above. I think it's such a different kind of fiction that's hard comparing the two. Better comparisons would be Baldurs Gate 2 (too much melodrama) and Planescape Torment (the gold standard IMO).

About Glory, don't know, there seems to be a plausible reason for those cyberclaws, no? She implanted old gen cyber on purpose to fuck her essence and escape the spirit. And her arc seems competently written IMO. If anything, I would say Eiger is the one that veers into edgy territory because her backstory feels kinda tacked and not really justifies her bully behavior. I mean, she became this after receiving a pass from a guy? Wut? And I couldn't stand Hong Kong either. Too verbose and flowery (Gaichu and Racter are great though).

About Kingmaker, I never played it so can't judge. I will look into this black ranger guy. EDIT: Ekundayo, right?
 
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Melmoth

Educated
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
76
This isn't the first Silva apology we've seen and it won't be the last

Dragonfall is the goldilocks of the SR games. its also the only game HB has made that's worth playing. What a shame
 

Faarbaute

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
763
This guy wouldn't have felt out of place amongst the other cast of characters. Infact, he's kind of tame in comparison:

e2e.jpg
 

Faarbaute

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
763
About Kingmaker, I never played it so can't judge. I will look into this black ranger guy. EDIT: Ekundayo, right?
Yeah, thats him. A very well portrayed version of The Avenger archetype, IMO.

Is it fair to compare Dragonfall to Fallout though? Fallout never touches personal themes whatsoever and keeps to the kind of sanitized American action flick fantasy of "plot-worldbuilding-funny jokes" I cited above. I think it's such a different kind of fiction that's hard comparing the two. Better comparisons would be Baldurs Gate 2 (I don't like it, too much melodrama) and Planescape Torment (the gold standard IMO).

About Glory, don't know, there seems to be a plausible reason for those cyberclaws, no? She implanted old gen cyber on purpose to fuck her essence and escape the spirit. And her arc seems competently written IMO. If anything, I would say Eiger is the one that veers into edgy territory because her backstory feels kinda tacked and not really justifies her bully behavior. I mean, she became this after receiving a pass from a guy? Wut?

It has more to do with how these themes are portrayed, not so much their believability.

And I couldn't stand Hong Kong either. Too verbose and flowery (Gaichu and Racter are great though).

It's funny you would say that, because I hated both of those characters. I hated all companions in HK to be fair though, except for the step brother orc dude, he was ok.
 

almondblight

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
2,549
Better comparisons would be Baldurs Gate 2 (too much melodrama) and Planescape Torment (the gold standard IMO).

I mean, Planescape: Torment had mountains of low quality melodrama. The Codex would lambast a modern game for having text dumps like this:

As you close your eyes, you blink and re-open them - your eyes are brimming with tears, and you are overcome with a terrible sensation of *drowning*. As the sensation rolls through you, there is a stirring in your breast, a *hunger*, poisonous like a serpent, BITING into your heart, until you feel as if your breast will *explode*. You want desperately to steady yourself, focus, but all that comes to your eyes is tears...

Wipe away your tears...

You raise your hand to wipe away your tears - your hands are soft, delicate woman's hands; they brush the stray tears from your cheek, and you cup them in your hands, each of the tears like jewels shimmering in the lights...

Turn to examine the lights...

The lights are cast by candle-globes that drift through your sanctuary. You have come to this place to gather your thoughts, to reflect on the past with an eye toward the future, to cleanse the mind before the coming journey. Yet... you cannot *concentrate*! Your thoughts remain in the present, trapped there by the terrible feeling that writhes in your breast. What did he MEAN...?!

Close your eyes, sigh...

You close your eyes, but his words echo in your mind, a hundred, a THOUSAND times. Will he EVER return?! The sound is a whisper, an echo: "Only you. ONLY you." Yet you HESITATED, at the brink of time's door, and he must have thought you AFRAID to go, but you were not, you were AFRAID to stay, and the fear... the serpent writhes in your breast again, its fangs biting into your heart, filling it to bursting with its *poison*. The tears come again, running down your cheeks in streams, his words echoing...

Echo: "Only you. ONLY you."

Your eyes snap open - it is HIS voice! You whirl, and you gasp; he stands, powerful, in the shadows, and he strides into the light of the drifting candled globes, and you feel the serpent writhing and DYING... he returned! His face, stern, but somewhere, in those features, you can almost see his pleasure at seeing you. After all, he returned for y-

Echo: "Only you can help me, Deionarra. But it was wrong for me to ask you for your help..."

You speak... Deionarra... yet you, it is YOU, gray-skinned like a statue, striding from the light - are you that *scarred*?! Your body looks like it has been bathed in knife blades, the wounds, the tattoos, horrible - yet, you see through DEIONARRA'S EYES, and she sees... how can she SEE you in such a way, she puts a CLOAK over your features, she sees you in such *light*, such terrible longing, *light*... for she... how... can she FEEL such...?
Try to re-focus, brace yourself, hold onto the experience...
You feel your vision tearing, doubling until you are that man striding from the light, it IS you, but NOT you... you feel yourself being TORN; it is Deionarra's experience, but at the same time, it is also *yours*, and you... what...

Echo: "I asked too much of you to accompany me, Deionarra. I have no right to place you in such danger for my sake..."

It is your words, but they are a surgeon's words, chosen with cold skill, without a TRACE of emotion. With every word, you feel yourself SNEERING inside, knowing what the (stricken) girl will see next through her (longing-stained) eyes, and who - are you THAT person, that man TWISTING her with your words, not KNOWING how powerful they are to her, like bolts from a ballista, piercing her breast, her... yet, she SEES only RELIEF at your return. How... how can she FEEL... and not know you mean to...?

Echo: "I have come to ask your forgiveness, Deionarra. I shall return to you as soon as I am able -"

Your vision tears again, doubling and bleeding, until you are facing yourself again, trying desperately to speak, to WARN Deionarra that this is not a man, but a creature that kills for his own needs, he doesn't CARE about you, Deionarra, you are a TOOL to him, a TOOL he needs to - but Deionarra speaks, and you can't STOP her....

Echo: "I would place myself in a *thousand* dangers, embrace eternity for you, my Love! I am *not* afraid! Listen to me -- I will accompany you, though the Planes themselves should bar -"

"...though the Planes themselves should bar the way...." You feel yourself shattering, relief and satisfaction - his SATISFACTION at her words, KNOWING she would say them, always KNOWING, and her admission of love is like the slamming of a portcullis across your heart. Trapped. She is yours, but you must be *certain*, so you drive the nail home.

Echo: "The way is dangerous. You will have to be strong... *far* stronger than you are now."

Swimming through her mind, relief, the wave of relief, the end of longing, yet LONGING for him more at his words, not noticing his manipulations... all you need to be is strong, and his path shall be as one with yours! Your thoughts are like fires... for you can be strong, stronger than he knows, you know no fear, you would DIE for him...!

Echo: "I can be strong, my Love. I will -"

Her words slide off of him like water. The serpent in her breast, the one piercing her heart with its poison has been replaced by this serpent in the flesh. She sees nothing of this, and his next words are planned, carefully, so carefully...

Echo: "I can't say if we'll succeed, Deionarra, but I'll do my best to protect you. And I will expect nothing less of the same from you. You..."

"...you may be required to make some *sacrifices*." At that final, terrible, word, you feel yourself being TORN apart; he means her harm... he means YOU harm, for you are HER, and he means to HURT her, yet you NEED her to be harmed, and - you want to SCREAM, SCREAM AT HER THAT SHE IS IN DANGER, RUN, RUN, DEIONARRA, FOR HIS EYES UNMAKE ALL THINGS AND -

Echo: "Of course, my Love. Life is sacrifice. This I have learned."

You... she... her... you speak the words, and in it, you feel yourself dying inside. You are a spectator, and you have watched a woman die, for the words are a death sentence. Yet, still, still she speaks, unheeding, uncaring....

Echo: "I... left a legacy in my father's keeping, my Love; ask for the sixth, the third, the Kay and the 'S'. In it, I bequeath everything to you; it's not much, but with it, I left..."

You... him... a wave of *irritation* washes over you; you clench your teeth to prevent the irritation from crossing your features. Must she *always* continue to prattle, even when you do not *prompt* her?! Must she - but no - no, keep the irritation inside, only a trace slips out...

Echo: "Come now, I cannot DIE, Deionarra. There is no NEED for such foolishness..."

Her... you... she is overcome with FEAR, fear that revolts you, and the fear wells up inside her... you, you as you watch him frown, and you hasten to correct him! He must know the reasons and know the wisdom behind them so he is impressed with your planning! Speak! Speak, before he turns away...

Echo: "I know I often act foolishly, my Love... but you said yourself that you CAN forget things if you are badly hurt. There are things in the legacy that could help you remember should you forget yourself."

She... you coldly regard her through your eyes, tracing your gaze along her furrowed brow, wrinkled with worry, desperation. She has acted as you *expected*... yet there is something in what she says...

Echo: "Perhaps... yet I hope nothing in this legacy is of *value*... I do not want you to leave any things here in some safe that could be of some use on our journey."

Her illusion is shattered, just for a moment - you watch, silent, as the emotion falls to the ground, splintering like silvered glass. "...of some use..." such a casual statement, yet even Deionarra SEES, and you hope, just for a moment, you HOPE that she SEES him for what he is... the serpent, the SERPENT...
...and your hope dies, as in Deionarra's eyes, the emotion is rebuilt, the slivers being drawn from the ground, the illusion rebuilt, but the slight sliver of pain remains. He thinks you have done something foolish! Yet, you did it for HIM! You must... must make amends, but how?! You must convince him the legacy is unimportant, but it ISN'T, it ISN'T. It's EVERYTHING...

Echo: "The legacy, my Love, it... it just has a few things to help you remem --"

The scythe of words falls on Deionarra, so quick, so sharp, you cannot follow its arcing path.

Echo: "A legacy? The things you do, Deionarra... such... *romantic* gestures. No matter..."

No! She... you... Deionarra... you have driven him away again, like you did the night before! You feel the serpent stirring again, reborn, curling around your heart. There is the softest of hisses, yet he does not hear...

Echo: "Would... would you wish to leave a legacy, my Love? For yourself... or for anyone you would want to. It might help you remember if you left something for yourself... or for the ones you loved..."

The word scythe falls again, terrible and swift. Yet this time, the illusion holds, and the serpent is cloaked. The serpent is cunning, and it shall not reveal itself until it strikes.

Echo: "A legacy for myself? Not likely... the things I would leave for myself would not be safe in some advocate's office, Deionarra. But enough of this... I must leave."

He is leaving! You must make him remain... and the experience SWIRLS around you, terrible, the spiraling toward the final scene... the QUESTION you... she... wants to ask, don't ask it, Deionarra! Don't ASK IT BE SILENT BE SILENT

Echo: "My Love, before you go..."

HIS ANGER HIS IRRITATION WHAT *NOW* GIRL WHAT *NOW* YOU MEWLING BANSHEE

Echo: "'Before I go'? It looks like I am in no danger of that. Come, Deionarra, can't these questions wait for the morn? There is much-"

SHE... YOU... SHE IS DESPERATE DROWNING SAY IT SAY IT SAY IT AND SHE... YOU... SPEAK IT

Echo: "Do you *want* me to come with you, my Love?"

The rush of emotion dies in your mind. This is the end. The words he... you... are about speak are true, but the truth is not the truth she sees. There are no lies, only cold calculations. Of *course* he wants you to come with him, Deionarra. You understand it clearly, too clearly: He has invested too much in the poor girl to let her go.

Echo: "Of course, Deionarra. I would not have asked you to come with me if I did not want your company. You *know* how I feel about you..."

There is a cold silence in his mind, then a hissing of a thought, a response sharp and deadly, like a dagger blade. The lie comes swiftly, unburdened by emotion.

Echo: "I love you, Deionarra."

And you want to SCREAM as you feel the lie wash over her like a RADIANCE, but it is a SHADOW of TRUTH, A SERPENT'S KISS, AND HE MEANS YOU HARM AND SHE CAN'T *SEE* YOU WANT TO CALL OUT BUT SHE IS CRYING WITH JOY EVEN AS - EVEN AS -
Cry with joy... with frustration... with joy... with despair...

The emotion washes over you, like you are drowning, DROWNING, and you need to speak, you LONG to speak, but you cannot... and...
Tear yourself away from the experience.
 

Terenty

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
1,375
Better comparisons would be Baldurs Gate 2 (too much melodrama) and Planescape Torment (the gold standard IMO).

I mean, Planescape: Torment had mountains of low quality melodrama. The Codex would lambast a modern game for having text dumps like this:

As you close your eyes, you blink and re-open them - your eyes are brimming with tears, and you are overcome with a terrible sensation of *drowning*. As the sensation rolls through you, there is a stirring in your breast, a *hunger*, poisonous like a serpent, BITING into your heart, until you feel as if your breast will *explode*. You want desperately to steady yourself, focus, but all that comes to your eyes is tears...

Wipe away your tears...

You raise your hand to wipe away your tears - your hands are soft, delicate woman's hands; they brush the stray tears from your cheek, and you cup them in your hands, each of the tears like jewels shimmering in the lights...

Turn to examine the lights...

The lights are cast by candle-globes that drift through your sanctuary. You have come to this place to gather your thoughts, to reflect on the past with an eye toward the future, to cleanse the mind before the coming journey. Yet... you cannot *concentrate*! Your thoughts remain in the present, trapped there by the terrible feeling that writhes in your breast. What did he MEAN...?!

Close your eyes, sigh...

You close your eyes, but his words echo in your mind, a hundred, a THOUSAND times. Will he EVER return?! The sound is a whisper, an echo: "Only you. ONLY you." Yet you HESITATED, at the brink of time's door, and he must have thought you AFRAID to go, but you were not, you were AFRAID to stay, and the fear... the serpent writhes in your breast again, its fangs biting into your heart, filling it to bursting with its *poison*. The tears come again, running down your cheeks in streams, his words echoing...

Echo: "Only you. ONLY you."

Your eyes snap open - it is HIS voice! You whirl, and you gasp; he stands, powerful, in the shadows, and he strides into the light of the drifting candled globes, and you feel the serpent writhing and DYING... he returned! His face, stern, but somewhere, in those features, you can almost see his pleasure at seeing you. After all, he returned for y-

Echo: "Only you can help me, Deionarra. But it was wrong for me to ask you for your help..."

You speak... Deionarra... yet you, it is YOU, gray-skinned like a statue, striding from the light - are you that *scarred*?! Your body looks like it has been bathed in knife blades, the wounds, the tattoos, horrible - yet, you see through DEIONARRA'S EYES, and she sees... how can she SEE you in such a way, she puts a CLOAK over your features, she sees you in such *light*, such terrible longing, *light*... for she... how... can she FEEL such...?
Try to re-focus, brace yourself, hold onto the experience...
You feel your vision tearing, doubling until you are that man striding from the light, it IS you, but NOT you... you feel yourself being TORN; it is Deionarra's experience, but at the same time, it is also *yours*, and you... what...

Echo: "I asked too much of you to accompany me, Deionarra. I have no right to place you in such danger for my sake..."

It is your words, but they are a surgeon's words, chosen with cold skill, without a TRACE of emotion. With every word, you feel yourself SNEERING inside, knowing what the (stricken) girl will see next through her (longing-stained) eyes, and who - are you THAT person, that man TWISTING her with your words, not KNOWING how powerful they are to her, like bolts from a ballista, piercing her breast, her... yet, she SEES only RELIEF at your return. How... how can she FEEL... and not know you mean to...?

Echo: "I have come to ask your forgiveness, Deionarra. I shall return to you as soon as I am able -"

Your vision tears again, doubling and bleeding, until you are facing yourself again, trying desperately to speak, to WARN Deionarra that this is not a man, but a creature that kills for his own needs, he doesn't CARE about you, Deionarra, you are a TOOL to him, a TOOL he needs to - but Deionarra speaks, and you can't STOP her....

Echo: "I would place myself in a *thousand* dangers, embrace eternity for you, my Love! I am *not* afraid! Listen to me -- I will accompany you, though the Planes themselves should bar -"

"...though the Planes themselves should bar the way...." You feel yourself shattering, relief and satisfaction - his SATISFACTION at her words, KNOWING she would say them, always KNOWING, and her admission of love is like the slamming of a portcullis across your heart. Trapped. She is yours, but you must be *certain*, so you drive the nail home.

Echo: "The way is dangerous. You will have to be strong... *far* stronger than you are now."

Swimming through her mind, relief, the wave of relief, the end of longing, yet LONGING for him more at his words, not noticing his manipulations... all you need to be is strong, and his path shall be as one with yours! Your thoughts are like fires... for you can be strong, stronger than he knows, you know no fear, you would DIE for him...!

Echo: "I can be strong, my Love. I will -"

Her words slide off of him like water. The serpent in her breast, the one piercing her heart with its poison has been replaced by this serpent in the flesh. She sees nothing of this, and his next words are planned, carefully, so carefully...

Echo: "I can't say if we'll succeed, Deionarra, but I'll do my best to protect you. And I will expect nothing less of the same from you. You..."

"...you may be required to make some *sacrifices*." At that final, terrible, word, you feel yourself being TORN apart; he means her harm... he means YOU harm, for you are HER, and he means to HURT her, yet you NEED her to be harmed, and - you want to SCREAM, SCREAM AT HER THAT SHE IS IN DANGER, RUN, RUN, DEIONARRA, FOR HIS EYES UNMAKE ALL THINGS AND -

Echo: "Of course, my Love. Life is sacrifice. This I have learned."

You... she... her... you speak the words, and in it, you feel yourself dying inside. You are a spectator, and you have watched a woman die, for the words are a death sentence. Yet, still, still she speaks, unheeding, uncaring....

Echo: "I... left a legacy in my father's keeping, my Love; ask for the sixth, the third, the Kay and the 'S'. In it, I bequeath everything to you; it's not much, but with it, I left..."

You... him... a wave of *irritation* washes over you; you clench your teeth to prevent the irritation from crossing your features. Must she *always* continue to prattle, even when you do not *prompt* her?! Must she - but no - no, keep the irritation inside, only a trace slips out...

Echo: "Come now, I cannot DIE, Deionarra. There is no NEED for such foolishness..."

Her... you... she is overcome with FEAR, fear that revolts you, and the fear wells up inside her... you, you as you watch him frown, and you hasten to correct him! He must know the reasons and know the wisdom behind them so he is impressed with your planning! Speak! Speak, before he turns away...

Echo: "I know I often act foolishly, my Love... but you said yourself that you CAN forget things if you are badly hurt. There are things in the legacy that could help you remember should you forget yourself."

She... you coldly regard her through your eyes, tracing your gaze along her furrowed brow, wrinkled with worry, desperation. She has acted as you *expected*... yet there is something in what she says...

Echo: "Perhaps... yet I hope nothing in this legacy is of *value*... I do not want you to leave any things here in some safe that could be of some use on our journey."

Her illusion is shattered, just for a moment - you watch, silent, as the emotion falls to the ground, splintering like silvered glass. "...of some use..." such a casual statement, yet even Deionarra SEES, and you hope, just for a moment, you HOPE that she SEES him for what he is... the serpent, the SERPENT...
...and your hope dies, as in Deionarra's eyes, the emotion is rebuilt, the slivers being drawn from the ground, the illusion rebuilt, but the slight sliver of pain remains. He thinks you have done something foolish! Yet, you did it for HIM! You must... must make amends, but how?! You must convince him the legacy is unimportant, but it ISN'T, it ISN'T. It's EVERYTHING...

Echo: "The legacy, my Love, it... it just has a few things to help you remem --"

The scythe of words falls on Deionarra, so quick, so sharp, you cannot follow its arcing path.

Echo: "A legacy? The things you do, Deionarra... such... *romantic* gestures. No matter..."

No! She... you... Deionarra... you have driven him away again, like you did the night before! You feel the serpent stirring again, reborn, curling around your heart. There is the softest of hisses, yet he does not hear...

Echo: "Would... would you wish to leave a legacy, my Love? For yourself... or for anyone you would want to. It might help you remember if you left something for yourself... or for the ones you loved..."

The word scythe falls again, terrible and swift. Yet this time, the illusion holds, and the serpent is cloaked. The serpent is cunning, and it shall not reveal itself until it strikes.

Echo: "A legacy for myself? Not likely... the things I would leave for myself would not be safe in some advocate's office, Deionarra. But enough of this... I must leave."

He is leaving! You must make him remain... and the experience SWIRLS around you, terrible, the spiraling toward the final scene... the QUESTION you... she... wants to ask, don't ask it, Deionarra! Don't ASK IT BE SILENT BE SILENT

Echo: "My Love, before you go..."

HIS ANGER HIS IRRITATION WHAT *NOW* GIRL WHAT *NOW* YOU MEWLING BANSHEE

Echo: "'Before I go'? It looks like I am in no danger of that. Come, Deionarra, can't these questions wait for the morn? There is much-"

SHE... YOU... SHE IS DESPERATE DROWNING SAY IT SAY IT SAY IT AND SHE... YOU... SPEAK IT

Echo: "Do you *want* me to come with you, my Love?"

The rush of emotion dies in your mind. This is the end. The words he... you... are about speak are true, but the truth is not the truth she sees. There are no lies, only cold calculations. Of *course* he wants you to come with him, Deionarra. You understand it clearly, too clearly: He has invested too much in the poor girl to let her go.

Echo: "Of course, Deionarra. I would not have asked you to come with me if I did not want your company. You *know* how I feel about you..."

There is a cold silence in his mind, then a hissing of a thought, a response sharp and deadly, like a dagger blade. The lie comes swiftly, unburdened by emotion.

Echo: "I love you, Deionarra."

And you want to SCREAM as you feel the lie wash over her like a RADIANCE, but it is a SHADOW of TRUTH, A SERPENT'S KISS, AND HE MEANS YOU HARM AND SHE CAN'T *SEE* YOU WANT TO CALL OUT BUT SHE IS CRYING WITH JOY EVEN AS - EVEN AS -
Cry with joy... with frustration... with joy... with despair...

The emotion washes over you, like you are drowning, DROWNING, and you need to speak, you LONG to speak, but you cannot... and...
Tear yourself away from the experience.
Was it really in Torment? That's some mighty cringe. He you she you she you he you wtf
 

Serus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
6,699
Location
Small but great planet of Potatohole

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,781
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
She's so edgy she literally has metal claws for hands.

That's what Street Samurais have lmao

Fallout? If you mean just RPGs in general.

WHOA FALLOUT. BROOOFIST!!!
IIRC she made herself some old fashioned and ugly claws compared to what other samurais use, just because she could. If this isn't being edgy and attention seeking, i don't know what is.
You're remembring it wrong. She ran for the first street doc and asked for whatever cyber available to burn all her essence away. That meant some old gen trash the guy had in stock.

AKA she didn't purposefully choose those claws.
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,781
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Is combat in Battletech decent/has some degree of depth?

I found it really weird that Dragonfall's combat only become good by the very end, when you can implement tactics with some consistency instead of fighting the RNG (miss! miss! hit!). Apparently, the devs could have tuned it to be like this earlier in the game but opted otherwise. Like "guys, we can have a decent combat system" followed by "nah, no need for that". And they could have succeeded in Hong Kong using the lessons from here but nope, Hong Kong is even easier.

P.S: I've heard you're swiming in money by the end of the game but it was not my case. Perhaps because I made a street sam and had to buy some cyberware?
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
I wouldnt place Dragonfall on my top 10 RPGs but it shares a quality with them that is really rare, a strong setting that is well used.

The music is great and get you on the mood of doing dangerous things at night, the baddies all come from all sorts of Shadowrun lore, the fights range from you fighting along a cyberzombie, fighting ghouls, dealing with blood mages, a crazy Ai and a dragon, all stuff coming from Shadowrun and the combat, on hard, is challenging enough to not make the experience trivial. The art style is great and the 2d tiles make for a distinctive look.

If you look into Deus Ex with a magnifying glass, you will see a series of issues, if you look to the whole package though, you see that despite all problems, every part was working together to create a great package. If it was a game with a bigger budget, better combat, more choice but if kept the same style, it would get on my top 10 easy.
 

Silva

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If you look into Deus Ex with a magnifying glass, you will see a series of issues, if you look to the whole package though, you see that despite all problems, every part was working together to create a great package. If it was a game with a bigger budget, better combat, more choice but if kept the same style, it would get on my top 10 easy.
Yeah, the "every part working together and creating a great package" makes sense. Despite everything besides writing/music being mediocre to average, the whole feels greater then the sum of those parts. Imagine a remake of this on an engine that takes advantage of current hardware.

I must admit though, that I would prefer the next Shadowrun project going back to the Genesis roots and evolving from there. A GTA-like sandbox where you could just fuck around to your heart content while cumulating nuyen, contacts and grudges with gangs, megacorps and the police would rock. Just me and my troll buddy WINSTON MARRS.

Genesis_03.gif
 
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Darth Canoli

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I must admit though, that I would prefer the next Shadowrun project goes back to the Genesis roots and evolve from there. A GTA-like sandbox where you could just fuck around to your heart content while cumulating nuyen, contacts and grudges with gangs, megacorps and the police was awesome. Just me and my troll buddy WINSTON MARRS.

There's a mod doing just that for shadowrun Returns, I think it's called shadowrun unlimited.
I played it a year ago or two and wasn't impressed but maybe it evolved since then.
 

wishbonetail

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I must admit though, that I would prefer the next Shadowrun project goes back to the Genesis roots and evolve from there. A GTA-like sandbox where you could just fuck around to your heart content while cumulating nuyen, contacts and grudges with gangs, megacorps and the police was awesome. Just me and my troll buddy WINSTON MARRS.

There's a mod doing just that for shadowrun Returns, I think it's called shadowrun unlimited.
I played it a year ago or two and wasn't impressed but maybe it evolved since then.
Modding Returns won't work because the nuShadowrun engine is an unlimited mobile shit.
On a side note i'm yet to find a cyberpunk game that implements at least half of Sega's Shadowrun features.
 

Darth Canoli

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Modding Returns won't work because the nuShadowrun engine is an unlimited mobile shit.
On a side note i'm yet to find a cyberpunk game that implements at least half of Sega's Shadowrun features.

The mod is for Dragonfall, by the way, not that it changes anything.
It's never going to happen under the shadowrun franchise, the only way would be for a skilled and knowledgeable indie team to pick it up but of course, they wouldn't have the budged to get the franchise.

So, the closest thing right now is Colony Ship, it does everything better than the shadowrun trilogy and by far, we're never going to get a Shadowrun game half as good as Colony Ship.

I never played Sega's shadowrun even if I owned a Megadrive back in the days, was it not an action game?
Many people praise it out of nostalgia, I assume but I doubt I'd be blown away if I played it now.
 

almondblight

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On a side note i'm yet to find a cyberpunk game that implements at least half of Sega's Shadowrun features.

I believe the original Cyber Knights RPG was an attempt to recreate Sega Shadowrun. I never got far into it, but that was the impression I got.

Starcrawlers also had hacking that was pretty much the same as hacking in Sega Shadowrun. Of course, the base game was completely different.
 

wishbonetail

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I never played Sega's shadowrun even if I owned a Megadrive back in the days, was it not an action game?
Many people praise it out of nostalgia, I assume but I doubt I'd be blown away if I played it now.
There was the MMO Shadowrun in 200x which was an action game. I never cared to check that. Sega Shadowrun here is an rpg has a realtime combat in meatspace and TB in cybespace.
No it's not nostalgia. Of course it is an old console game so the plot and the writing are serviceable at best. But where it shines is its sandbox element, no scripted sequences, just mucking around.
It is the complete opposite to new Shadowruns. And it has the best cybespace realization out of all cyberpunk games. Not some hacking minigame. Starcrawlers sorta did it but it was still pretty much barebones.
On the downside it needs heavy rebalancing and bugfixing but the community is small or not entusiastic enough to participate in such endeavour. It saddens me to no end.

I'll leave the manual here so you can compare its features to nuShadowruns.

https://classicreload.com/sites/default/files/Shadowrun_-_1994_-_Sega.pdf
 
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snes shadowrun was better than the sega one, anyone who suggests otherwise is wrong
 

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