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I suck ass @ MotB combat.

Discussion in 'Obsidian Entertainment' started by DefJam101, Jun 1, 2008.

  1. DefJam101 Arcane

    DefJam101
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    Honestly; I've tried playing this game 3 times now and this is the first time I've actually gotten out of the cave. Now I'm getting smoked in seconds by some Red Wizard guy and his band of crazy winged bitches... It's too bad because I've liked what I have seen of the dialog so far, and want to play more.

    I have never played anything D&D before and know very little about the system. I do not want to have to play through the entire NWN2 shit campaign to learn how to survive this thing.. Honestly, I'm just bombarded with hundreds of spells and numbers and I have hardly any idea of what they do. Every time combat starts it's just this endless montage of horribly distracting particle effects and sounds. It's way too fucking fast; I thought D&D was supposed to be turnbased and slow?

    I've figured out how to do a few basic spells (I chose a Warlock, have tried other classes and they were just as difficult) but find it extremely hard to memorize no less than 25 different things and what they do. I still have very little idea of how exactly I'm supposed to be fighting, or how the actual system works.


    Should I actually try and play the standard NWN2 campaign first or is there any sort of tutorial or FAQ I can look at to figure out the basics of combat; even on Easy mode I am still getting my ass handed to me on a shiny, particle-effect-covered, plate.
     
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  2. Lesifoere Liturgist

    Lesifoere
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    No help for the particles, I fear, but you could try making your PC a melee character. You should be able to find guides on character builds floating around everywhere, and go from there. A straight fighter doesn't have to do much but click attack and wait for the foes to die while the NPCs in your party spam their Super Special Awesome Spells of Death and Particle Effects.
     
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  3. POOPERSCOOPER Prophet

    POOPERSCOOPER
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    Use the Pause button which is the space bar by default. I understand where your coming from with the confusion of DnD since some of us have never played PnP games and have the previous knowledge of the ruleset. You basically have to just play around with it and probably read a guide by Dan Simpson who explains all the techno faggot that is in DnD.

    I consider NWN2 actually one of the easier DnD games to play though, maybe I just have experience with shit or something.
     
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  4. Wyrmlord Arcane

    Wyrmlord
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    Hmmm, on that case, here is a quick basic summary.

    Every character has a Base Attack Bonus and an Armor Class. For every attack you make, a number between 1 and 20 is chosen. This number is added to the Base Attack Bonus of your character. If the resultant total is greater than the opponent's Armor Class, you make a successful hit. If not, you miss. Likewise, the opponent has to match your Armor Class with his BaB + a number between 1-20.

    The damage you do depends on the weapon. If you a have weapon that does 2d4 damage, then 2 imaginary 4-sided dice are taken, and the total of the numbers that come up is the base damage i.e. a number between 1 and 4 is added to another number between 1 and 4. To this base damage is added a bonus. The bonus can be from your Strength modifier(if it it is meelee) and from your training in the weapon.

    As you can see, there is always a base constant and a variable factor that determines what happens in combat. This also applies to spellcasting, skill checks, and other things.
     
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  5. Heresiarch Prophet

    Heresiarch
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    I would actually recommend play the original campaign first, if you have no DND knowledge at all. Or you WILL be overwhelmed by the sheer amount of feats, skills, spells provided by the starting level of MOTB. And you WILL have no idea at all about 80% of the combat and magic system, hence you'll be killed fast as you don't know how most of the spells and feats actually work.

    DND is very hard to pick up and go at high levels, but it's much easier and satisfying when played from low, not mention much more easier to learn the rules step by step, level by level, spell level by spell level. At the end you'll easily memorize how all the arcane and divine spells work without even trying.


    You shouldn't worry about the quality of the original campaign - for one, you can't say if it's chocolate or shit if you don't taste yourself, and two, while the original campaign sucks compared to MotB, it's still better than tons of RPG out there.


    Personally, I find the OC to be OK - cliched, generic, easily forgettable, but still better than NWN's OC, and it's cliched, generic in a good, traditional way. Besides, playing the OC will give you much insights in MOTB.
     
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  6. POOPERSCOOPER Prophet

    POOPERSCOOPER
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    You don't really even have to play through NWN2 OC all the way just enough to get a grip then move on to MOTB. I stopped played nwn2 oc at the end when I looked down at my throbbing member and how beat up it was from having to go through as much of nwn2 as I did.
     
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  7. themadhatter114 Liturgist Patron

    themadhatter114
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    Really, just play a paladin or a fighter and rape everything with melee weapons. Look up a build depending on how you want to play. If you're going to suppress a lot I think playing a paladin would be cool, but playing a fighter or fighter/rogue or some other melee build will give you some options and not be too hard to mess with.
     
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  8. NiM82 Prophet

    NiM82
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    Second using pause, it's the only real way to play a spell caster properly. Warlock also may not be the easiest for a newb, go fighter, paladin or cleric . Regarding the OC, as a complete novice to DnD I'd say go for that first - if only because you stand a higher chance of liking it pre MOTB.

    A lot of us who thought it was a bit naff were comparing it to Baldur's Gate, PST, etc. That shouldn't be an issue for you, yet, so you may as well get value for money from it whilst there's a chance you may appreciate it. It's far from terrible, it's just a bit disappointing compared to the greats, still miles better than NWN1's campaigns, Oblivion etc.
     
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  9. Jaesun Fabulous Moderator

    Jaesun
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    For what ever reason, people who have never played D&D or a game that uses D&D's rule system ALWAYS at first play a Spellcaster. heh. Why? Oh who the fuck knows.

    I'd suggest you play as a Fighter, and learn how the spell system works playing the NWN2 OC with the characters you meet/in your party.

    Once you are a bit more familiar with this, go ahead an start MoTB with a Warlock. Or finish the OC. It is not as bad as people say. It is a good training experience for you.
     
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  10. Texas Red Whiner

    Texas Red
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    Calling the NWN 2 OC shit is plain ignorant. It is a fun adventure with a lot of dialogs and other interesting aspects. Go beyond the wrongful Codex consensus and give it a try.

    1. There are little choices in every dialog. You can play any alignment you want. Want to be chaotic good? You can do that. For example, later when you join the thieves in the Neverwinter city you will be able to handle your missions through diplomacy and understanding, rather than bloodshed and intimidation you were meant to handle out.

    2. Ridiculous number of character options. The variety is astounding. Even if the combat is easy it gives me satisfaction to get new spells and abilities to blast enemies more quickly.

    3. Loads of companions. The way you handle situation and treat them unlocks new dialogs, quests etc. A lot of dialog with them. Though I admit they are sort of cliche and boring, conversation in RPGs is still always worthwhile.

    4. You get your own fort! Yes, you will become a noble with your own castle. You will have a lot of managing to do and building. A lot of times you will be faced with decisions, such as to help some villages with your yet untrained force or not, for which there will be consequences.

    I agree that NWN 2 OC is fails because its just too standard and average in regards to setting, characters and story, but it doesn't deserve to be called shit. You will get enjoyment out of it.
     
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  11. samsim25 Novice

    samsim25
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    Choose a prestige class to work towards to first.
    Prestige classes are good goals to work towards to because of their requirements.
    You won't go off track if you just follow the requirements.

    When you get more accustomed, choose 2 or 3 prestige classes to work towards to.
     
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  12. fastpunk Arbiter

    fastpunk
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    In addition to everyone's advise I'll offer this thread as help for character creation... but you'll need to consult the manual too a bit, in order to understand everything.

    http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=22872

    Or do like Jaesun said, play a fighter!

    Also, are you crazy? The Warlock sucks until you get further into the game and get Dark Invocations. Plus, he's practically dead without using the Dark Foresight spell often (it protects him from damage).
     
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  13. Lumpy Arcane

    Lumpy
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    How many times have you tried the fight? Just keep at it, you will succeed eventually, when the RNG shines on you.
    Did you buff yourself before the fight? Dark Foresight, Greater Stoneskin, Magic Mantle and all that jazz should help you a lot. In fact, you should be buffed at all times in dangerous areas - it makes a crucial difference. And at epic levels, buffs will keep really long, so you don't have to worry about doing it too often.
     
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  14. nomask7 Arcane

    nomask7
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    You don't want to start your DnD experience from level 18 (or whatever the starting level was in MotB). If I were you, and knowing what I know, I would start by playing through the two add-ons of NWN 1. They form a sort of continuous epic where you start at level one and advance to epic levels in Hordes of the Underdark. The first add-on is better than the original campaign, and HotU is much better. Both are much better than the original campaign of NWN 2. You should also use mods that make the AI better and that sort of stuff.
     
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  15. Lumpy Arcane

    Lumpy
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    You get a Dark Invocation from the start in MotB.
     
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  16. racofer Thread Incliner

    racofer
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    You could try KOTOR1/2 since it uses a very simplified version of D&D rules without as many feats and skills as both NWN.
     
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  17. Texas Red Whiner

    Texas Red
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    You are retarded, you know that, right? Did you even notice that SoU is the same as NWN 1 OC with the same D&Diablo premise(fuck, the whole story is even exactly the same: the best student, you, saves the day from rising ancient nation)? IN NWN 2 you have loads of more dialog, choises, real companions, a party and other content other than "combat", such as the trial or the fort.

    This man is a perfect example of an idiot jumping on a bandwagon.
     
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  18. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    ^ Agreed. I can't think of anything in the original NWN that would have made the official content worth playing, if not for the sheer masochistic desire to experience literally head-crushing boredom. Does this give me my first Volourn-treatment?

    I myself warmly recommend the NWN2 OC. It was quite good (excellent at times even) and certainly in the top tier of the High Fantasy storylines (which admittably isn't that much of a feat). Certainly not as good as PS:T or MotB, but still awesome good time.
     
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  19. fastpunk Arbiter

    fastpunk
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    Indeed. SoU is a poor, simple adventure by any standards. HotU is better, but both are under NWN2's OC, which we well know, has it's fair share of problems anyway.

    Also, in before Volourn!
     
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  20. Wyrmlord Arcane

    Wyrmlord
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    The game started out with a huge bunch of fed exes and mundane chores. Talk to the sergeants at the guard posts. Escort the wagon. Fight the watchmen/thieves attacking the shipment. And it constantly kept shifting focus, moving from the githyanki to the petty thieves to the orcs to Garius' minions, and then back to the thieves and then moving to Jerro's demons. They forced tons of filler content into the game.

    Really, the trial in the game was awesome, but stuff like that really ensured that I will never play it again.
     
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  21. ricolikesrice Arcane

    ricolikesrice
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    i think the point of DI was there s tons of morons posting on the codex just how abysmally shit NWN2 OC is when its a game with flaws that s nowhere near PS:T/Fallout but at least easily better than around 80 to 90% of other cRPGs.

    nothing wrong with beeing an elitist cunt, but most of the time these guys have hilarious double-standards and are right now "enjoying" mass effect, despite the game beeing in exactly the same league as NWN2 OC which they called "biggest POS" before.
     
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  22. Texas Red Whiner

    Texas Red
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    Wut fedex quests? The game opens with an attack on your village. Then you are supposed to travel to Neverwinter and between your journey, you have take care of a conflict between lizardmen and other villages(something which you can solve with diplomacy, BTW, and avoid another dungeon crawl).

    I personally liked how the story was handled. You have uncertainty and mystery, everyone trying to get at you, you don't know who the enemy or friend is etc.

    Exactly, my good sir.
     
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  23. wesleyclark Augur

    wesleyclark
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    I'll second the advice to start with the OC and choose a fighter variant. Straight fighter is the easiest, paladin gives you a very limited number of spells to play with and comes with the "knight" feel to it, and ranger can be fun if you like to dual wield - although it helps to know how the penalties are applied to that (just use short swords).

    You get enough and varied companions that you can gradually play around with the features of the different classes, smoothing out the learning curve.

    Once you're ready for some more advanced play, may I recommend a combat/skill bard. This is by far my favorite class, as you don't have to really use spells in combat and it can take the place of your rogue/thief with little work. They get lots of skill points, a powerful de-buff (Curse Song) that is useful into epic, and some nice epic abilities.

    I'm not a build expert, but this has served me well all the way through from 1st to 30th level. Start with Rogue at first level, all other levels Bard. Human, for the free feat and extra skill points (I like skill points, can't play a low skill point class - boring). Start with 15 Charisma (add one point at 4th level to get to 16), 14 Intelligence (skill points are good), leave Wisdom at 10. I put 15 Strength (combat bard, all points to Strength after 4th level), and the rest to Constitution and Dexterity - weighted to Dex.

    First two feats at Level 1 take Able Learner (so you can level up Rogue skills without a penalty) and Luck of Heroes. Take Curse Song at 3rd Level. Extra Music is not really necessary. Lingering Song (I take it at 12th) is useful, especially with the later and epic songs. Power Attack (6th Level) and Cleave (9th Level) for the combat.

    Some like to take the battle bard to the extreme and take Battle Caster and Medium Armor Proficiency feats. That way you can wear a crafted mithril platemail. I don’t like to waste the feats on it, but it is pretty powerful.

    Some important spells to pick: Heroism, Mirror Image, Greater Invisibility, Displacement, Greater Heroism. Grease is a nice 1st level spell that can be fun to use.

    Skills to increase: Conversation (Bluff, Intimidate, Diplomacy), Spellcraft, Tumble, Use Magical Device, Disable Device, Search, Open Lock.

    Always keep Inspire Courage up (helps with combat). If a particular skill check is too difficult, then turn on Inspire Competence. I rarely use the other Inspirations.

    Spells to cast on yourself: Heroism/Greater Heroism, Mirror Image, Greater Invisibility. At early levels your spells don't last long and you should wait until prior to a fight to cast them. At mid to later levels, you can just cast them on yourself after resting - they'll last longer than you need them to.

    Use a long sword. When possible, craft yourself a mithril heavy shield, then a mithril breastplate. I use the companions for crafting.

    If the fight seems like it's going to be tough, get close and spam a Curse Song. Then, whack anything that comes close. You can play around with the other Songs, although they're really not needed.

    Talking about combat that I suck at (and hate) is Mass Effect PC. I think I'm getting too old for this modern type of RPG. I hate it. I wish I could get my money back (got the download, so probably can't) and am thinking about just abandoning it. Like I did with Jade Empire PC.
     
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  24. Redeye Arcane

    Redeye
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    Try Monk.

    You don't have to worry about weapons and armor for the most part, and you have a lot of resistance to magic.

    After level 20, pick fighter or duellist.

    I'm not sure if the duellist special crap works with the monk's unarmed attacks.

    Maybe cleric 1, Wizard 1, Fighter 8 for the last 10 levels. (So you can use a bunch of items.)
     
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  25. Wyrmlord Arcane

    Wyrmlord
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    Yeah, well, to say that it has flaws but is better than certain other games is just being too idealistic, you know. People buy games for fun, and they really have no reason to make themselves tolerate a flaw or force themselves through something that they are not enjoying. They have paid money for the game, and in return the game must impose on them? It's not like the gamer owes anything to the developers or has his own personal obligation to them.
     
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