Interview Immersion and the classics with Ken Levine

[baronjohn]

HL storytelling is about the worst of any video game.

"Oh shit we want this and this to happen but it doesn't make any sense, lets just use this nonsensical omnipotent character to achieve it and then make shit up as we go"

 

[MetalCraze]

HL had a story?
Valve tried to add a story in HL2 - and it turned into a teenage melodrama.

 

[Shannow]

KL: Well, I think one of the challenges is, when we make games, generally we don't make games that rely on the most traditional methodology of storytelling in games, which is cutscenes. That's not our thing, generally. Certainly it wasn't our thing on System Shock and BioShock.

And I'm a big proponent of that, because I'm a big believer that what games do well is immerse people in worlds, and put people in scenarios that feel like there's not a layer between them and the experience. Like in a movie, you're just sitting, watching this activity onscreen; with a cutscene you just sit back in your chair.

What is that moment that we want out of game playing? We want that moment we forget we're in front of the computer, in front of the Xbox 360, in front of the PS3. We want that moment where we're immersed, and we're in that thing. And so, if I can tell a story without that layer, without that, "Okay, now you're participating in entertainment" -- where you forget that you're participating in entertainment, where you just think you're having an experience. That's the golden ideal, right?

Hmm, dunno. I'm kinda tired and not in the mood to re-read his droning. Is he actually saying anything but: "Immersion is good" here?

 

[MasPingon]

HL had a story?
Valve tried to add a story in HL2 - and it turned into a teenage melodrama.

Half Life series(including first one) storytelling is something that other first person shooters(and most of games from other genre) aren't even close to. Name me one better

 

[Jim Cojones]

HL had a story?
Valve tried to add a story in HL2 - and it turned into a teenage melodrama.

Half Life series(including first one) storytelling is something that other first person shooters(and most of games from other genre) aren't even close to. Name me one better

Doom (and some other similar FPSes) presents you the only story good shooter need. These are your guns, these are evil monsters to kill, have fun! Half-Life is basically the same but adds unnecessary bullshit detracting you from the core of the story, f.e. dialogues.

 

[Claw]

Because there were a lot of people that thought, "No, you don't have mouselook, and there should be inventory screens..." and Thief almost didn't have weapons equippable by the number keys, and almost didn't have mouselook, because there was certainly an oldschool/newschool thing going on.

What? :facepalm:

 

[Forest Dweller]

Half Life series(including first one) storytelling is something that other first person shooters(and most of games from other genre) aren't even close to. Name me one better

Too easy.

Spoiler

Deus Ex

Although it is also an RPG.

 

[The Feral Kid]

Although it is also an RPG.

Must be lots of fun refuting your own self.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Yes because in a dumbfuck mindset a game can't ever be more than one genre.

 

[The Feral Kid]

A dumbfuck mindest also can't see that a cross-genre game combining the advantages of both rpgs and shooters, can't be compared to one that is only a shooter/action game. Especially in regards to the story/narrative.

 

[baronjohn]

IGN: What would you call Deus Ex? At IGN we call it a first-person RPG.

Ken Levine: The thing that I expect out of a shooter that it didn't have is that it didn't work visually. The weapons weren't satisfying. That made it problematic as a shooter. So was it a great first-person shooter? No, I think as a whole it was a great game, but solely as a first-person shooter, did it work as a first-person shooter? But I think it's fair to call it a first-person shooter because it has that key element which is that you're shooting weapons at things, aiming and hitting them. That's the core gameplay mechanic as a first-person shooter. It's the common element of first-person shooters. How long have we played with that dynamic? That dynamic will be fun until I die. I have been playing with that element for what? Twenty years? It's always going to be fun.

 

[thesheeep]

HL had a story?
Valve tried to add a story in HL2 - and it turned into a teenage melodrama.

Half Life series(including first one) storytelling is something that other first person shooters(and most of games from other genre) aren't even close to. Name me one better

Hmm...

System Shock 2 (don't know about 1)
BioShock
Deus Ex 1,2
...

Seriously, everything is better than:
Aliens invade earth, dominate everything, another mysterious force teleports Gordon "Speechless Rambo" Freeman in to do the job wherever and whenever they want.

 

[The Feral Kid]

This Levine guy is a total douchebag. Trying to get rid of the guilt for the consoles by suggesting they inherited all the qualities that made pc-gaming great. What a sad, pitiful and pathetic attempt at being an apologist.

 

[Micmu]

Storytelling in shooters? Get the fuck out.
Make shooters good shooters instead.

P.S.: HL2 is overrated overhyped piece of shit mediocre shooter.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Trying to get rid of the guilt for the consoles by suggesting they inherited all the qualities that made pc-gaming great.

Perhaps they did, but a horrible genetic defect made them all retarded.

 

[The Feral Kid]

Storytelling in shooters? Get the fuck out.

Ever heard a games series called NOLF? Apparently not. You see, just because something is not written by Avellone and doesn't involve pseudo-philosophic drivel, doesn't mean it can't have a story.

 

[bhlaab]

IGN: What would you call Deus Ex? At IGN we call it a first-person RPG.

Ken Levine: The thing that I expect out of a shooter that it didn't have is that it didn't work visually. The weapons weren't satisfying. That made it problematic as a shooter. So was it a great first-person shooter? No, I think as a whole it was a great game, but solely as a first-person shooter, did it work as a first-person shooter? But I think it's fair to call it a first-person shooter because it has that key element which is that you're shooting weapons at things, aiming and hitting them. That's the core gameplay mechanic as a first-person shooter. It's the common element of first-person shooters. How long have we played with that dynamic? That dynamic will be fun until I die. I have been playing with that element for what? Twenty years? It's always going to be fun.

He's right though. If you're making a FPS/RPG you can't ignore what makes a fps good just as much as you can't ignore what makes an rpg good.

 

[bhlaab]

You guys are missing the point about Half Life.

Yeah, its plot consists of your generic sci fi troped, but it was probably one of the first games to use scripted events to give narrative context to its level structure. Okay, scripted events have been pretty abused since, but without it we'd still be playing in E1M3 - THE CATACOMBS

Yeah, you can say that System Shock 1 came much earlier and didn't exactly use the wolfenstein 3d model, but I think part of the reason it used the whole Audio Log Narrative dynamic is because something like Half Life hadn't come along and made clear that you can get a story across in a game by showing instead of telling.

And the fact that it tells an entire story without using cutscenes at all? That's pretty impressive, even today.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Okay, scripted events have been pretty abused since, but without it we'd still be playing in E1M3 - THE CATACOMBS.

...and?

 

[inwoker]

but without it we'd still be playing in E1M3 - THE CATACOMBS

What a beautiful world that would be!

 

[bhlaab]

Oh I forgot there isn't a game in existence that wouldn't be improved by regressing 15 years

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

You look at the great developers now? Of console games? Bungie, and Lionhead. You look at BioWare; you look at Bethesda

The fail, it burns.