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In the history of humanity, has anyone ever gone Scrappers instead of Black Eels?

Jezal_k23

Guest
Has anyone EVER chosen to ally with the Scrappers in Junkyard? What happens then? Aren't you screwed since there's a fuckload more Black Eels content than Scrappers?

I don't get how that is even a real conflict since it's basically a major naval power in Underrail vs a bunch of dumbfucks.

Discuss.
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2013
Messages
1,258
I tried it once to see where a Scrappers Junkyard would go.

It didn't seem like it would go anywhere.
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
I did, on my 1st run. It's a mistake. Story-wise you simply maintain the status quo, gameplay-wise the reward is nothing compared to all the loot you get from the gang showdown.

However, it's optimal to postpone the showdown until Blaine outlives his usefulness as a merchant, at which point you kill him to get that sweet 1k charons from Eddy for his head.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
It doesn't have anything interesting going for it - story, gameplay, reward. It's poor design.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
Shouldn't it be somewhat an obvious choice to go to if you're planning to screw the Black Eels by going full Pirate in the Black Sea? Unless Styg somehow hasn't implemented a reactivity related to the Black Eels in that regard, then, yeah the Scrappers would seems like an 'inferior' option when making the most out of content.

And also if we're we speaking in terms of pre-DLC content, but like the two replies above said, not every content has to yield the exact same 'worth'. And if you're a storyfag, going with the Scrappers is the way if you want to maintain the status quo of Junkyard and kept it from outside interference.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,432
It begs the question as to why even give the player a choice, if one is garbage compared to the other.

Just a trap for new players.
 
Unwanted

Sweeper

Unwanted
Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
2,394
It begs the question as to why even give the player a choice, if one is garbage compared to the other.

Just a trap for new players.
Can't have good choices without bad choices.
The more grueling the game is for new players, the better it is.
 

Divine Blessing

Scholar
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
107
Location
beyond
good and bad is as relative as player agency, but in objective terms these kinds of alibi choices enforce top-down gameplay, where majority doesnt feel to have a real choice but the numbers (aka power): bad design. thats what they r, alibi choices, cuz y chose crooks over a plane?

also a humane learning curve, aka accessibility guarantees a much broader audience (aka profit), but hey its ok to stay niche, as some like to chose crooks (instead of millions), right?
 

oldmanpaco

Master of Siestas
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
13,609
Location
Winter
The whole discussion is pointless because inevitably some raving mad murder hobo shows up and slaughters the entire Junkyard.

Every goddamn game this happens.
 

Jezal_k23

Guest
It's fine that some choices are bad, such as the failure states in Abrams' quest line, because those make at least some semblance of sense. However, this choice is stupid because of the way it's presented: as if you were dealing with 2 equal factions. Actually it doesn't even make any sense that the Black Eels are unable to do anything about the Scrappers.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
Actually it doesn't even make any sense that the Black Eels are unable to do anything about the Scrappers.
They explained it in-game. The Scrappers have direct access to the Old Depot, and thus, first dibs on the best junks (aka the premium goods). The Black Eels might control the harbors, and thus access and trades with the rest of the South Underrail, but without those premiums brought and sold by the Scrappers, Junkyard's worth is pretty much that of a, well, junk. The Black Eels might also have access to the Old Depot by way of the "wormhole", but it isn't as accessible nor an ideal route to mass transports the scavenged junks.
Also, as far as manpower and firepower goes, they're evenly matched. And when you consider third parties like the Protectorate (and possibly Free Drones lurking around), and also their relationship with the rest of South Underrail, the Black Eels can't possibly risk an all-out war without leaving themselves too weakened that they could be finished off by someone else, or risking the Scrappers just blowing the shit out of the direct entrance to the Old Depot to kingdom come out of spite upon losing. That's why they had to take all those pre-planning of getting a third party to help with the final showdown AND gain control of the direct entrance by blowing parts of the caves ceiling above them to secure the entrance before the Scrappers could do anything about it.

Still, siding with the Scrappers and letting them live should definitely have its own perks. There's Gort, who's the trader of the Scrappers territory, and yet he doesn't seem to offer much in terms of said 'premium' junks despite being a part of the gang who got first dibs on those. Styg definitely need to revisit the early game someday in the future. I'm not asking for something like making it an 'equally balanced rewards' a la Sawyerian approach, just that these things that felt like something is missing, like also with somewhat neutral approach to Rail Crossings conundrum of solving the train heist with diplomacy, and yet it means pissing off the Free Drones and 'siding' with the Protectorate, needs to be addressed.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
9,430
Location
Grand Chien
Has anyone EVER chosen to ally with the Scrappers in Junkyard? What happens then? Aren't you screwed since there's a fuckload more Black Eels content than Scrappers?

I don't get how that is even a real conflict since it's basically a major naval power in Underrail vs a bunch of dumbfucks.

Discuss.
Yes. I didn't know anything about the two factions and the Black Eels refused to talk to me for some reason.

I was mocked mercilessly by Discord chat when they found out.
 

huskarls

Scholar
Joined
Aug 7, 2016
Messages
108
nah you guys are just biased because you love murder hoboing and min maxing your story fag head cannon
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,691
It doesn't have anything interesting going for it - story, gameplay, reward. It's poor design.
Maybe, but who says all decisions need to have equal value?
He's not saying anything about equal value though. He says one of the choices doesn't have anything interesting for the player. As long as you keep the player's activities interesting it shouldn't matter if things are not equally balanced (unless you are doing some sort of perfect run).

But if the choice is not interesting, the gameplay is not rewarding and the reward is not worth it, then why waste development time on that kind of content, instead of creating something more interesting across the board for the player?
 

oldmanpaco

Master of Siestas
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
13,609
Location
Winter
It doesn't have anything interesting going for it - story, gameplay, reward. It's poor design.
Maybe, but who says all decisions need to have equal value?
He's not saying anything about equal value though. He says one of the choices doesn't have anything interesting for the player. As long as you keep the player's activities interesting it shouldn't matter if things are not equally balanced (unless you are doing some sort of perfect run).

But if the choice is not interesting, the gameplay is not rewarding and the reward is not worth it, then why waste development time on that kind of content, instead of creating something more interesting across the board for the player?

I was also referring to value to the player not the PC. Just because there is a funner choice doesn't necessarily mean it's bad design.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,691
I was also referring to value to the player not the PC.
I fail to see how uninteresting story/gameplay/reward* could have any value to the player (and why would you think any of us was talking about value to the PC?).

*
It doesn't have anything interesting going for it - story, gameplay, reward. It's poor design.
 

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