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Indie Friendly Development Tools

lefthandblack

Arcane
Joined
May 5, 2006
Messages
1,287
Location
Domestic Terrorist HQ
I thought that it might be a nice idea to compile a list of development tools that are friendly (read: price, licensing) to independent developers.
I'll start with a list of tools that I use/have used.

Engines:

Unreal Development Kit
http://www.udk.com/
- No licensing fees for freeware projects. 100$ initial fee and 25% of
all profit above 5,000$ for commercial.

Panda 3d
http://www.panda3d.org/
- modified bsd licnese
- Uses python as it's scripting language
- powerful, but bare-bones, no fancy level editor or anything like that.

Wintermute Engine
http://dead-code.org/home/
- 2.5d engine intended for Adventure game development, but robust enough that other types of games are definitely possible.
- uses a scripting language very similar to javascript

Tools:

Blender
http://www.blender.org/
- Once you make up your mind that you are going to learn how to use it, you may find that you will soon be throwing rocks at 3dsmax.

Makehuman
http://www.makehuman.org/
- Open source character model generator. Remember all the body mods for Oblivion and Fallout3? I'm fairly certain by looking at the models that at least some of them used this at some point in development.

GIMP
http://www.gimp.org/
- What Blender is to 3dsmax, this is to Photoshop.

Pixie
http://www.nattyware.com/pixie.php
- A tiny little program that offers a very useful function:
It provides RGB, CMYK, HEX and HTML color values for whatever is under your mouse pointer.


ATI/AMD Normal map generator
http://developer.amd.com/gpu/radeon/arc ... fault.aspx
- generates a very basic normal-map from a TGA file


Nvidia Melody Normal Map Generator
http://developer.nvidia.com/object/melody_home.html
- I haven't tried this yet but it looks sexy.

Audacity
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
- Open source sound editor. Free, powerful and easy to use.

Code Blocks
http://www.codeblocks.org/
Cross platform IDE

Notepad++
http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/site.htm
The programmers notepad. I do 90% any programming I do in this.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,381
Panda 3d
http://www.panda3d.org/
- modified bsd licnese
- Uses python as it's scripting language
- powerful, but bare-bones, no fancy level editor or anything like that.

Python kills it for some. I work with a programmer, who said he aint touching that shit with a 10 foot pole. We tried to set it up on C++, but it was too much hassle.

I think a good engine needs a few things first and foremost - good documentation, API and dev's support, must be coded efficiently, must have a proven track record of completed games, must have all the necessary modules.

OGRE 3D is free and quite powerful, good documentation and goodcontact with the dev. You need to look for various add-ons and plugins,or write your own, as it is only for rendering.

I think its best to find a good price to quality ratio on a paid engine, and give it a go. Face it, if the project is serious, you should make some investment. My two pesronal winners:

C4 - Documentation is pure heavan.And the devs are realy really helpful. Bought it, been tinkering with it for some time.

Esenthel - quite cheap, and the guy is always tinkering with it to good effect. Unfortunately, he doesn't have time to write up good docs and API.

Blender
http://www.blender.org/
- Once you make up your mind that you are going to learn how to use it, you may find that you will soon be throwing rocks at 3dsmax.

New versions of max begin to be too much of a bloatware to my tastes, although I have a too big grudge with blender to consider it as an alternative.
Whoever designed the UI should be shot and hanged. Seriously.
FFS.

http://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/DCC_Tools
^Here's a nice list of stuff for OGRE, works with other engines too. A bit dated, but some good finds as well.
 

lefthandblack

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Domestic Terrorist HQ
I played around with OGRE a little bit, but once the UDK came out, I decided that that was what I was going to use, as I've been dicking around in the Unreal engine since the original UT. As far as panda goes, I like it, but the lack of an editor kills it for me.

Whoever designed the UI should be shot and hanged. Seriously.
FFS.
I'm not trying to evangelize, but I felt exactly the same way at one time. I have probably installed, ragequit and uninstalled Blender ten times over the years. Once I sat myself down and decided that I was going to learn how to use it come hell or high water, I quickly grew to love it. Of course I still curse them from time to time when I alt/tab to another program and I'm doing everything backwards because I've been working in Blender.

http://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/DCC_Tools
^Here's a nice list of stuff for OGRE, works with other engines too. A bit dated, but some good finds as well.

There's some stuff here that I hadn't seen before.
 

ecliptic

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 11, 2003
Messages
915
Unity3d is pretty nice for rapid-prototyping or low impact development. I found it surprisingly usable and actually performed pretty decent. I expected it to be a slug, but not at all.

And what's your buddy's problem with Python? Good programmers don't care what they're using, one scripting language is functionally much like another.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,381
And what's your buddy's problem with Python? Good programmers don't care what they're using, one scripting language is functionally much like another.

He's hell bent on doing C+ and some assembler elements whatever he does. Some guys just have their quirks I guess.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
372
spectre said:
And what's your buddy's problem with Python? Good programmers don't care what they're using, one scripting language is functionally much like another.

He's hell bent on doing C+ and some assembler elements whatever he does. Some guys just have their quirks I guess.

I hate to say it, but this is a strong indicator of a poor programmer. Either that, or he's got very little experience. If he were building a house, would he only use one tool (eg. a hammer) for everything? A programming language is a tool; you use the one that best suits the job. Besides that, other languages force you to learn other programming paradigms, which in turn, makes one a better programmer overall.

Whoever designed the UI should be shot and hanged. Seriously.
FFS.

It does take some getting use to (its an incredibly complex program, what did you expect?), but I found that once I sat down with it for a while, it can make you quite efficient.


As for the original topic:

A general list of some game engines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines

A large list of game development libraries:
http://www.twilightsembrace.com/personal/gamelibs.php
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
178
tl;dr?, then just look at the bolded parts.

Lame/common question, yeah, but anyhow:

I'm good-enough at art, writing and audio, but I suck at math - I've no aptitude for programming. So I bought Torque3D since the ads made it sound like it would largely take care of that angle for me. Not so, sadly.

I don't just want to use another game's mechanics - I've got my own ideas. So I know that I'm going to have to write something like code at some point, rather than just mod something or use Fallout's system through FIFE or a JRPG system through RPGMaker or something.
So my question isn't "what's a development kit with no programming required," but, "what's a development kit that makes programming as easy as possible?" :P

I really don't care what the game looks like - 3D, 2D, even pure text - just so long as I can start experimenting with the gameplay/combat mechanics, dialogue trees, quest branches, etc. The stuff that (as this forum already knows) is the RPG part of RPGs.

I think I'd actually prefer a text-based system to get started with, but I have no idea how one would get an Interactive Fiction kit to operate on a level as complex as that; aren't they limited to simpler functions?

Anyhow, thanks for the help and the cool links in the thread so far.
 

soggie

Educated
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Messages
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Tyr
forgotmypasswordagain said:
tl;dr?, then just look at the bolded parts.

Lame/common question, yeah, but anyhow:

I'm good-enough at art, writing and audio, but I suck at math - I've no aptitude for programming. So I bought Torque3D since the ads made it sound like it would largely take care of that angle for me. Not so, sadly.

I don't just want to use another game's mechanics - I've got my own ideas. So I know that I'm going to have to write something like code at some point, rather than just mod something or use Fallout's system through FIFE or a JRPG system through RPGMaker or something.
So my question isn't "what's a development kit with no programming required," but, "what's a development kit that makes programming as easy as possible?" :P

I really don't care what the game looks like - 3D, 2D, even pure text - just so long as I can start experimenting with the gameplay/combat mechanics, dialogue trees, quest branches, etc. The stuff that (as this forum already knows) is the RPG part of RPGs.

I think I'd actually prefer a text-based system to get started with, but I have no idea how one would get an Interactive Fiction kit to operate on a level as complex as that; aren't they limited to simpler functions?

Anyhow, thanks for the help and the cool links in the thread so far.

There's no such thing available as a game engine that gives you the flexibility to prototype a game without needing you to write code of some sort.

There's no such thing as an engine making programming easier. Code is easy when you know the language. And that's the point - knowing the language.

I started from C++, moved on to Java for 5 years, with PHP on and off. After that I went into PHP full time and now that I'm writing my own game I've moved BACK to C++ (with a heavy dose of python).

The point is, you NEED to learn a language of something. I suggest starting with python. It's easy to understand and read, and pygame is really powerful. And once you're done with pygame you can always go to SFML (which has a python binding).

If you want something with an editor, try UDK or Unity. Especially Unity, which I think would fit your requirements well. You'll still need to learn the scripting language though...

EDIT: And you know the funny thing? I use HTML and javascript to prototype my RPG's character system. Attack rolls, skill checks, and all number related stuff, I used HTML because it's fast and easy (partly also due to me having more than 10 years experience with the language... but it's relatively easy to learn).
 

ecliptic

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 11, 2003
Messages
915
UDK is kind of beastly. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. Klik N' Play or Unity seems more up his alley.
 

soggie

Educated
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Aug 20, 2009
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Tyr
ecliptic said:
UDK is kind of beastly. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. Klik N' Play or Unity seems more up his alley.

UDK seems okay to me though. I prefer that to Unity actually.

But yeah I agree, Unity's best bet for that dude.
 

Hory

Erudite
Joined
Oct 1, 2003
Messages
3,002
The downside is that it can make low level languages seem intolerable.
 
In My Safe Space
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
21,899
Codex 2012
Well, is it important?
If I would like to make a lowlow-budget cRPG or a roguelike, would I be unable to do it wyth Python?
If yes, then what would be the easiest to learn programming language I could use for it?
 

soggie

Educated
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Messages
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Awor Szurkrarz said:
Well, is it important?
If I would like to make a lowlow-budget cRPG or a roguelike, would I be unable to do it wyth Python?
If yes, then what would be the easiest to learn programming language I could use for it?

You can use a screwdriver to build a PC, or you can use a powered screwdriver to do it too. Or, if you're feeling masochistic, you can use a coin.

Coin = Assembly
Screwdriver = C++
Powered Tool = Pyhton

Get the analogy?
 

lefthandblack

Arcane
Joined
May 5, 2006
Messages
1,287
Location
Domestic Terrorist HQ
forgotmypasswordagain said:
I think I'd actually prefer a text-based system to get started with, but I have no idea how one would get an Interactive Fiction kit to operate on a level as complex as that; aren't they limited to simpler functions?

I agree with the others that recommend python.
If you want to deal mostly with text to start, and have something that will give you some fast visual feedback, you could download Panda3d from the link in the first post. I wrote a text parser that worked through Panda fairly quickly, and I am by no means an ace programmer. Like you, programming is the weakest point in my knowledge.
 

ecliptic

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 11, 2003
Messages
915
C++ can be painful for non-programmers, but it sure does give you a lot of bang for the buck. If you can stomach it, it's a good route to go. You'll be set for most languages, with the exceptions of the functional ones.

Depending on how intense of a game you're making, (I'm going to get flak for this) you may want to check out C#. It's rather painless in many ways (sneaky garbage collector issues aside) and does a lot of things for you. And suitably abstracts away the low level unless you want it. The only downside is it makes you lazy. C/C++ header files seem like a pain in the ass after getting comfortable with C#.

And I've always been partial to LUA over Python, but they are both in the same ballpark.

As far as UDK beaing a beast, I just mean as far as what is laid in front of you. It's a very deep and wide engine, there's a lot for a beginner to take in there with all the different components, as far as I'm concerned.
 

SuicideBunny

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May 1, 2007
Messages
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Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Torment: Tides of Numenera
http://www.sculptris.com/
is not only free, it is friggin awesome.

soggie said:
There's no such thing available as a game engine that gives you the flexibility to prototype a game without needing you to write code of some sort.
torque 2d and game maker both allow for complete game creation through drag and drop and editing or setting some properties.
in both it is quite easy to slap on an rpg system onto that with minimal scripting involved (depending on the complexity of the system, of course).
 

Flatlander

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Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
242
Location
Paradise Valley
Scultpris is fucking awesome. I kinda hope that the freetards get it incorporated in Blender at some point.

As for languages; If you really want to learn programming then Python (as most people have said) is the best option. Personally I like both high and low level languages and Python sucks in both categories but don't let my (or anyone elses) opinion matter. Most important is that you start with something.

If you think yourself as an creative person and would like to start programming to make the game of your dreams, then just stop. Right there. You don't need to learn programming, there are plenty of people out there who can do that for you. Get in contact with them and stop wasting your time.
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
178
Thanks for the suggestions!
I guess I should've gone with Torque2D instead of 3D to start with. :P
I'll check out Sculptris and find out more about Python; I could be wrong, but I think Torque3D's native scripting language is supposed to be similar to Python?

I was also considering just doing everything in Flash (I think its programming language is called ActionScript?) since it's cross-platform. Anyone with an opinion on that?

Thanks again :)
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
372
As I recall, the Flash SDK thing costs a bit of money (a couple hundred bucks). There was also a free version, called Flex, which doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but it is oriented much more for programmers. If you don't have much experience with that sort of thing, it could be a steep learning curve.
 

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