Game News Internet DRAMA alert! JA3D RT vs TB

[bobik]

Are there any moderators? Or here in "enlighten West" people don`t know about meaning of the word "offtopic"?

What is off topic?? The topic is internet drama ffs.

Oh, I though that it is theme about JA 3D, not Fallout. Look at it`s title. See? Goodbye, huge junkyard. If administration haven`t time to kick flooders` asses and everybody thinks it is right I just give up.

Goodbye, I will return to my native forums. Here in wild and dirty Russia admins at least know that offtoping and flood must be punished. And users can read topic titles and create new topics if they want to discuss something. Bye-bye! :wink:

 

[Volourn]

You hear that? Of course you don't. Those are the non cries of those who won't miss you as you slink away.

 

[Jed]

I can buy BioWare trying to improve on the RT+P system, since they did pioneer it...

I'm pretty sure BioWare didn't pioneer RTwP...

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Even before them, Darklands (which as far as I recall was the first CRPG to use a realtime with pause system) and X-COM: Apocalypse used it.

 

[space captain]

so did Bloodnet - in 94

 

[bryce777]

Bloodlines RT was okay because it was full-out RT, Vicky, instead of some bullshit half-measure attempt to please everyone like the Infinity Engine's RT with pause.

That said, while TB is generally superior for RPGs, RTwP is just something RPG gamers are going to have to put up with since it's not going away.

And Bloodlines' combat was waaaaay better than Morrowind's, so frankly, Bethesda could be taking lessons from Troika (or rather from the huge number of devs who've done third person melee combat well) on that count.

Yeah, RT is ok with one character. The way it was in the infinity engine, especially given the turn based nature of DnD, was just fucking idiotic.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Drahkken was the first to used real-time with pause, in 1989.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Strange thing, I played Bloodnet some time ago and I don't recall it being realtime with pause.

Never played Drahkken, though.

 

[Spazmo]

bryce, what I mean is that when developers quit kidding themselves about TACTICAL REAL TIME and just go for full-out action combat, it can be fun, and when they do proper TB, that's fun too, but mixing the ketchup with the peanut butter is a no-no.

 

[bryce777]

bryce, what I mean is that when developers quit kidding themselves about TACTICAL REAL TIME and just go for full-out action combat, it can be fun, and when they do proper TB, that's fun too, but mixing the ketchup with the peanut butter is a no-no.

I grok.

I also agree.

 

[Fez]

Bloodnet? That brings back some bad memories. That game was awful. It's worth finding a copy of it to see what design mistakes you should avoid in your own projects. You can probably find it on HOTU.

 

[Shagnak]

but mixing the ketchup with the peanut butter is a no-no.

Pregnant chicks eat weird-arse shit like that all the time :shock:

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Bloodnet? That brings back some bad memories. That game was awful. It's worth finding a copy of it to see what design mistakes you should avoid in your own projects. You can probably find it on HOTU.

I actually remember some good stuff from Bloodnet. The setting and dialogues were cool, and some situations were pretty nifty. I think the worst part of it was the scissor, paper, stone combat. Stats and equipment didn't seemed to matter, it was all random.

Strangely I can't get it to work. DOSBox seems to not accept it.

 

[space captain]

yeh i never said it was a good game... in fact at the time i thought the combat was beyond total shit

 

[Fez]

The only good thing was maybe the setting, everything else that I can remember was poor, such as the clunky inteface and the invisible dead-ends. The skill and stats were at least as badly thought out as FoT. The combat was incredibly poor, even a cheap FF clone made in RPG Maker 2000 could beat it. No log is kept of your quests.

I'd rather play Shadowrun again.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Shadowrun was okay, thoguh I always get the two versions mixed up.

 

[Volourn]

"The way it was in the infinity engine, especially given the turn based nature of DnD, was just fucking idiotic."

Don't be a moron. It was EASY to controll all six characters with IE's Rt w/pause. Espicially sicne you cna basically have it play out in as close to turn base as possible with the 'pause at the end of every round' option.

You. are. a. retard.

 

[Mefi]

So why not make it a turn based game in the first place?

How does RTwP improve on TB using the DnD ruleset, which is itself, erm, turn-based?

I loved BG. I've just bought a new copy of it. But the combat system still reminds me of a pretty girl wearing striped half-length dungarees.

 

[bryce777]

"The way it was in the infinity engine, especially given the turn based nature of DnD, was just fucking idiotic."

Don't be a moron. It was EASY to controll all six characters with IE's Rt w/pause. Espicially sicne you cna basically have it play out in as close to turn base as possible with the 'pause at the end of every round' option.

You. are. a. retard.

I have crushed you on this topic too many times to bother again....

 

[Volourn]

"I have crushed you on this topic too many times to bother again...."

No, you haven't. Unless your idea of 'crushing' is limited to 'tb is the r0xxors!'.


"So why not make it a turn based game in the first place?"

Why not make it rt w/pause? Why not make it rt? Why not make it suck like POR2 combat? The answer is simply because, why not?


"DnD ruleset, which is itself, erm, turn-based?"

Common misperception. DnD pnp can be turn base, phase based, or turn base with time limits. On top of that, D7D only uses turn base combat because it's impossible to play pnp in RT with any real success. DnD tb is supposed to simulate combat as much as possible.

 

[Mefi]

It's also impossible to play BG in RT with any great success. Hence the need for pause. Which returns to the question: why use RTwP when TB combat seems to offer the solution?

The combat in BG is effectively turn based anyway so why faff about with forcing the player to use RTwP? It just seems to be a gigantic fudge which was implemented pretty poorly.

*shrug*

JA3D looks like it's going to be an unholy mess in any case. How far into development were the Russians before people realised what they were doing to the franchise?

 

[Volourn]

"Which returns to the question: why use RTwP when TB combat seems to offer the solution?"

No taking 10+ minutes to do easy battles for starters...

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Shadowrun was okay, thoguh I always get the two versions mixed up.

The Genesis version is the one that doesn't suck.

 

[Mefi]

"Which returns to the question: why use RTwP when TB combat seems to offer the solution?"

No taking 10+ minutes to do easy battles for starters...

Not following you there. Which battle and how much time does using RTwP save you in comparison?

 

[EEVIAC]

"Which returns to the question: why use RTwP when TB combat seems to offer the solution?"

No taking 10+ minutes to do easy battles for starters...

Or you could leave battles that pose no threat or challenge to the player out of the game entirely.