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Game News Internet DRAMA alert! JA3D RT vs TB

Slaine

Scholar
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
105
Location
Slovakia
Ok i'll explain. Now while that might work with fallout ants it might not work with more complex but still weak enemies.

This is just a construct for you to understand what i mean: let's say you fight monsters that have really low hp and have no ac and they can do only a slight dmg, but they have two spells ...first spell is stunn and second spell is poison..now let's say you are a noob and don't apply your anti-stunn spell you get stunned over and over and poisoned and eventually you die. Now let's try this with auto resolve- your ac,dmg,hp,lvl bla bla compares to the ennemy ..voiala you won.

Now i see you telling me things like calculator could check for those skills and count with it..ok what about this then:
Those enemies are rather small and can hide behind rocks..so now you don't know when you get ambushed and can't time your anti-stunn well -now you have to use your "get-attention" skill so that they run towards you and only after that you use your anti-stunn.

Ok now don't tell me that a calculator could just search for both of those skills and give you the result of battle becouse that would mean you don't need to actually play the game but only get all spells and hit the button.

While there are plenty of boring enemies in rpgs that can be autoresolved just well like you mentioned those ants i don't think this is a way to go for future rpgs and i hope i will never see an autoresolve in any future game where tactic is an element that takes part.
 

Crazy Tuvok

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
429
Slaine:

That is not the issue. It is not that rats or goblins or whatever just have low hp, it is that there is functionally *no* way for your l.20 character to lose a fight with hordes of them probably not even if you tried. The fight you describe, with spell-casting- hiding-behind-rocks types of enemy which are using tactics and such does not need to be auto-resolved because the fight will still be challenging, or at least tactically interesting, to a l.20 PC. Auto resolve is for the boring fights which does not necessarily mean low level critters. If a game was designed with the kind of foes you are describing then an auto-resolve function is not needed.
 

Slaine

Scholar
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
105
Location
Slovakia
Remember the temple of trials at fallout 2 ? You have to fight your self through considerably weak enemies. The fight lookd like this: strike a foe, spend rest action points to move back....a foe goes towards you... you strike a foe and spen rest action points to go back.... foe moves towards you -and again and again ->tedious monkey work. You obviously can't autoreslve this becouse you would likely loose. Now what's an excelent solution for this matter? I say RT+pause would make it at least faster if not more fun.
 

Crazy Tuvok

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
429
Lemme echo Walks: the "excellent solution" to things like the Temple of Trials is to not have things designed like the Temple of Trials. It has *nothing* to do with RTwP or TB. Remember the first fights in the JA and XCom games? - low level characters fighting low level opponents in TB but some damn good fun.
 

Saint_Proverbius

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2002
Messages
14,045
Location
Behind you.
Slaine said:
Remember the temple of trials at fallout 2 ? You have to fight your self through considerably weak enemies. The fight lookd like this: strike a foe, spend rest action points to move back....a foe goes towards you... you strike a foe and spen rest action points to go back.... foe moves towards you -and again and again ->tedious monkey work. You obviously can't autoreslve this becouse you would likely loose. Now what's an excelent solution for this matter? I say RT+pause would make it at least faster if not more fun.

With real time with pause, and all other things being equal, you most likely wouldn't survive the Temple of Trails because you couldn't move away after a swing.
 

Slaine

Scholar
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
105
Location
Slovakia
Saint_Proverbius:
With real time with pause, and all other things being equal, you most likely wouldn't survive the Temple of Trails because you couldn't move away after a swing.

I think that's more a question about an engine but i see what you mean.

Walks with the Snails:
My vote would be to leave out the Temple of Trials altogether.

That's not only about Temple of Trials. What about "repair the destilary" quest where you had to fight gecons..and many others ...now when i think of it all of the fights in fallout just sucked.
Those pnp rules no matter if is gurps or d&d or whatever just never realy worked in pc games and looked rather silly - as i said earlier about two characters facing each other and missing (while i can imagine there is a strugle going on- still it looks silly).
Or all fights in infinity engine games - watching and shouting on your monitor - comeon swing your axe allready!
The only rpg where i haven't felt disturbed during fights was paradoxly System Shock. Creators of Bloodlines probably thought the same, yet they spoiled it by inplementing pnp rules (some of them) into the fights and it doesn't quite work just as well as in SS in my opinion.
Now I have yet to see dragon age as they promised to use a system that should be designed for PC gaming and it won't probably be a diablo hack and slash system.
 

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