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Decline is gaming officially over

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by the mole, Nov 18, 2021.

  1. Corbin Dallas Multipass Learned

    Corbin Dallas Multipass
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    90 percent of everything is shit. You just tend not to remember older shit, your memory automatically filters out most of it, except the hilariously bad stuff. Meanwhile you remember every disappointment in gaming this year.

    Don't worry. In 20 years you'll be talking about how great things were 20 years ago, and how it all sucks now, in current year 2041.
     
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  2. Ash Arcane

    Ash
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    Imagine being nostalgic for the 2010s in any context discussed here. How much worse would it have to get? Jesus fuck kill me now.
     
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  3. pakoito Arcane Patron

    pakoito
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    I 'member chest-high walls, brown everywhere and playing the same game for a decade.
     
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  4. Ash Arcane

    Ash
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    That people deny this just blows my mind. My formative years were the 90s and there was banger after banger wherever you went. So much variety in styles. So much soul. The before of autotune. Definitely some shit too, but hearing popular music now just makes me wanna puke. It largely all sounds the same and it all sounds godawful. When a song does stand out its usually for the wrong reasons (e.g Gangnam Style, WAP, what Does the Fox Say?).
     
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  5. Lemming42 Arcane

    Lemming42
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    Since posting in this thread last night I've been spending half the day on this site checking out the UK charts of each week of the 90s. Here's a random week from 1992.

    It was definitely a lot more varied in genre than today. I also forgot how much I liked M People.

    What's really interesting though is the variation in artists. There's obviously a lot of big-name recurring artists in the 90s - Madonna and Mariah pop up with a new top ten single every few months, for example - but check out this week's chart. Ed Sheeran somehow ends up with three songs at once in the top five (they're all shit as well), but most of the rest of the top part of the list is filled out with people who've been on there for months if not years. I wonder if there's been some kind of change in how they calculate what goes to the top of the charts. This level of stagnation, where you end up with the same song/artist hovering around the top of the charts for several consecutive months, definitely didn't happen 20+ years ago (except for the occasional mega-hit song). I suppose album sales can't be used because nobody in their right mind buys physical CDs anymore, and streaming can't be used without some kind of limitations because otherwise you'd just end up with new stuff competing against the past 80+ years of existing popular music.

    I'm listening to the top 10 of each year as I go, and you know what the real problem is with current music? Everyone sings like a prat. Male or female, virtually all white singers do a similar whiny, breathy voice that sounds like they've been punched in the stomach and are also weaklings, while virtually all black singers do a similar gruff-sounding edgy voice. None of these musicians appear to speak in these voices normally, so it's an intentional stylistic choice which makes any song instantly worse.

    The 80s had the awful yuppie-bastard voice for a lot of songs - anything by Spandau Ballet or Duran Duran being obvious examples - but it's more tolerable than this.
     
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  6. Arbiter Learned

    Arbiter
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    Are there any official sales numbers? How do they compare to previous installments?
     
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  7. anvi Prophet Village Idiot

    anvi
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    Yeah 90s was awesome. And varied. Music pre-internet was a completely different story, I figured it was common knowledge what happened but people today don't seem to know or acknowledge anything about it. Talented people wont stick around when their product is worth $0.




    How many until it's not cherry picking?
     
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  8. Lemming42 Arcane

    Lemming42
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    This is such an irrational and autistic thing that bothers me, but:

    STONE ROSES ARE 80s, NOT 90s. Their one good album with every hit on it is from 1989. I have no idea why they end up on every 90s radio station's playlist - ok, the songs were charting during 1990 but they're from 1989. I once actually called into a local 90s station at 2 AM to complain about this and they told me to "fuck off" (verbatim). Which I deserved for getting so mad about something so retarded, but still, I'm glad I made the call.

    See also: Cars by Gary Numan, which ends up on every 80s radio station even though it's from 79.

    Maybe the singles were released after the albums themselves. I'm still waiting for another station to do it so I can complain regardless.
     
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  9. Sunri Savant

    Sunri
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    I just played video game.
     
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  10. Ravielsk Scholar

    Ravielsk
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    It really boils down to selective memory. Its easy to point to lady Gaga as a highlight of the modern era but that is really not the problem. The problem is that she is an outlier when in the past she would have been the norm!

    Same applies with video games. If you examine game releases in the 90's/early 2000's(these two eras are basically the same) games like Soul Reaver, Thief or Simcity were the norm not the outliers. While with the 7th gen(and onward) games like that were actually the rare outlier. Its easy to point to Bioshock or Alan Wake as great games from that era but once you have to go beyond these sure fire beaters you sort of end up hitting a wall. Because there were no other games like that afterwards, its just those few highlights and finito.
    Its not about the absence of good games, its that those good games are rarer and rarer while also coming with a crapton of caveats and asterisks. Its just a overall worse state of things and smarmy denial is hardly going to change that.
     
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  11. Lemming42 Arcane

    Lemming42
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    Surely it can be simultaneously true that the frequency of quality media is lower nowadays, but also that getting into an "everything's shit now" mindset blinds you to the newer releases that are good. It can also lead to romanticisation of a lot of bad-to-mediocre older shit, just because it's from the "golden age". I'm guilty of that myself.

    I think it's easy to slip into an attitude of being predisposed not to like anything after a certain cutoff point, and to be predisposed to be very generous to anything before that same cutoff.

    (Also, to return to the subjectivity point, BioShock is actually a game I'd personally have used as an example of everything that was wrong with gaming in the late 2000s...)
     
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  12. anvi Prophet Village Idiot

    anvi
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    Wtf you really think that after seeing my list? What do you think is the good today that I'm missing which is as good as the good of those other decades? And what games today are better than the best from the 90s?

    Why do you think I would pick that date? You don't think anything I've said about the financial value of music and what happened to the games industry since then has affected any of this? It's simply that some people don't like new things?
     
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  13. Lemming42 Arcane

    Lemming42
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    Again, it's all subjective, I don't think listing songs is gonna work since I'm not sure what you might like. Personally I only like about half the songs on your list. Not a big fan of Nirvana (RIP), Soundgarden (RIP) or Metallica, and Beck sounds to me a lot like the mumble-y stuff that plagues the charts now, only with a guitar rather than a synthesiser for a backing track. I like No Doubt but not Don't Speak.

    Plus, nobody listens to lists anyway if they don't already know the songs.

    I'll try anyway though. How about some of these? Tried to keep it rock-oriented, since your 90s list was mostly rock except for stuff like TLC (I fucking love TLC):

    Screaming Females - Rose Mountain (2015) (i really like this album)
    Royal Blood - Figure it Out (2014)
    Therapy? - Callow (2018)
    Morcheeba - The Moon (2021)
    Wilco - Random Name Generator (2015)
    Royal Headache - High (2015)
    Tokyo Shoegazer - Turnaround (2013)

    There's a hell of a lot of metal bands around now too, but it's not really my thing and it all sounds the same to me, so I couldn't tell you what's good. Asked my friend who does like metal though and she gave me these:

    Mastiff - Plague (2019)
    Carcass - Torn Arteries (2020)
    Dread Sovereign - Her Master's Voice (2021)

    I could potentially offer some recent EDM/house/techno stuff if my BIG SPOTIFY PLAYLIST of it is still intact somehwere. As for chart pop, I already listed some earlier (though mostly 2000s, it does get pretty tough in the 2010s).

    EDIT: This post keeps magically formatting itself somehow, so sorry if all the links are fucked.

    So are you making the case that there's literally nothing good being made now, or that there's just far less good stuff than there was 20+ years ago? I'd agree with the latter statement but not the former.
     
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  14. Theodora Arcane Patron

    Theodora
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    gayming is dead, long live gayming

    (just look around more, there's plenty lol)
     
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  15. anvi Prophet Village Idiot

    anvi
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    Former by miles. I hate all that stuff you listed, it's shitty millennials posing as rockers and going through the motions. And not one of them made it legitimately. It might sound like music but there's 50 years of real deal music that's on a whole different level. I always thought people could tell the difference.
     
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  16. Lemming42 Arcane

    Lemming42
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    Not sure about them being millenials - the members of Wilco and Morcheeba must all be about 50 at this point! And both bands were releasing music long before the 2000 "everything's-shit-now" cutoff point, as were Therapy?.

    Bet you anything if Nirvana released Nevermind today, you'd say it was soulless paint-by-numbers rock, and that Kurt was a tryhard poser. (and you'd be right, IMO :P - I never understood Nevermind's astronomical popularity)
     
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  17. anvi Prophet Village Idiot

    anvi
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    I don't get it, if people can't even tell the difference between those two lists then humanity is honestly dead to me. You think Nirvana is soul less, and these paid by the parents fake bands convince you...
     
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  18. dacencora Augur

    dacencora
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    The phenomenon that people are observing here is that yes, most mainstream stuff is pretty trash these days. Back in the day (for video games, particularly) "mainstream" stuff was really good. There are some mainstream studios that still make great video games these days, but most of them tend to be Japanese. But the majority of the good Western releases from the last decade are indie games (for RPGs anyways). Stuff like Grimoire, Age of Decadence, Underrail, etc. Same thing for music, definitely. There's some really great stuff to listen to but you're not gonna find it on the top 100 like you could in the 80s. The main difference between then and now is that the good stuff used to be more popular than it is now. JarlFrank has really great taste in music and he pointed me to some very good bands. Parish, Isles of Mars, Psychedelic Witchcraft.

    The point is, there is still great stuff being made today, you just have to look in the right places.
     
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  19. Lemming42 Arcane

    Lemming42
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    Kurt was paid for by his girlfriend. Not the one who shot him in the face, a different one before that.

    But anyway, three of the bands on the list were active in the 1990s. Did they automatically become soulless fake bands on January 1st 2000? Morcheeba even sounds the same as they did back then! Incidentally, Kurt's favourite band was Shonen Knife, who began in the early 80s and are still active now. For the most part they make music roughly the same as they did back in the "Let's Knife" days, only with better production quality, so there's another for the list.

    Serious question: what do you think of these two pop songs?

    Neneh Cherry - Buffalo Stance
    Nicki Minaj - Super Bass

    They're both very similar - rap verse with amusing lyrics leading into a great pop hook for the chorus, with a calmer bridge section towards the end. Both have strong, memorable synth hooks for the instrumental track. Both have the singer assuming an exaggerated overconfident persona for comedy effect. They even reached a similar position on the charts - Buffalo Stance at #4 and Super Bass at #3, I think.

    One big difference is that Super Bass is from 2011, 11 years after The Shit Cutoff Point, whereas Buffalo Stance is from 1988, 12 years before the cutoff. They sound very similar in style and genre to me, and I think both songs are fantastic. Does Buffalo Stance have a quality of being "real deal music" which is "made legitimately" which Super Bass lacks as a result of being made 23 years later? Is Neneh a real musician while Nicki is "paid by the parents"?

    Another question: were you around in the 90s? I'm old enough to remember stuff like Sheryl Crow being on the radio and the general consensus was that it was insufferable made-for-radio crap (though I actually like her big self-titled album). Similarly, my dad grew up in the 60s and 70s and he genuinely believes music died in the year 1976. I tried as a kid to show him all the 90s rock bands, even throwing in a bunch of grunge bands I didn't even like just to try and get through to him, and he described it all as "worthless pap", including the likes of Nirvana, Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam, etc. You made me think of him when you used the phrase "posing as rockers", because he accused a lot of the grunge artists of being weak Led Zep ripoffs. Showing him the likes of Green Day went even worse, Billie didn't even get to finish the line "do you have the time to listen to me whine" before dad yelled "turn that shit off".

    Trying to show him stuff from the 80s went even worse, because he deemed The Cure to be "a band for poofs" and literally any pop song as "awful shite", except Everybody Wants to Rule the World by Tears for Fears which he called "the worst shite". He called Enola Gay by OMD - objectively the second best song ever written - "a load of new romantic bollocks," when it's NOT EVEN NEW ROMANTIC. He was a fan of Peter Green era Fleetwood Mac, and considered the Buckingham/Nicks era (which me, you, and everyone with basic taste knows is actually the good era) to be a travesty. Tried to play an Erasure song for him and the old fucker nearly had a heart attack.

    I'm only asking because I think the eras we grow up in and the attitudes we have towards the music at the time can really influence the way we view the present. My dad genuinely thinks that no good music was released after '76, and he's very generous to anything released before that, even total shit like ELO. He's endlessly delighted to go back and find literally any record released between 1965 and 1976, because he knows it'll be good by default, because it's from the good era, even if it's shit. I see a lot of people who grew up in the 90s doing the same thing now. I've admitted I think media has gotten measurably worse since then, so maybe I'm affected too, but if you get into the mindset of saying that nothing is good anymore and dismissing everything new as "fake", you're in serious danger of ending up like my dad - fat, diabetic, and listening to Incredible String Band all day, with a son who posts on the Codex. A grim fate.
     
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  20. tritosine2k Augur

    tritosine2k
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    This might be one reason 90's is remembered fondly, because the preceding years were benign nature( FM radio reception has uniform noise) , soft , etc. And now in games theres all kinds of visual glitch phenomena and even mpeg compression artifacts starting from around Crysis2, then spread everywhere, also edgy pixels of "pixel-art" is kinda same . Maybe VHS artifacts is en vogue now because mpeg stuff was too much ,lol. Even distorted bass drum is prominent in music for same reason probably.
     
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  21. anvi Prophet Village Idiot

    anvi
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    Nirvana's success was legitimate and driven by what the public actually wanted. It was a system built up for a century. None of that works anymore.

    They were unknown for years, playing as support act for slightly bigger bands. The crowds were drawn to them more, so they became the headline act. The major labels paid people to research headline acts globally, and take a chance on any that looked promising. And back then, when the product could be sold for $10 (equivalent of $20 today), there was enough money in the business for them to take chances on dirty bands like Metallica, GnR, Nirvana, even in the age of Tiffany, Madonna and Jacko.

    But then it went from $20 to less than 0.01c. So now it is just pretty autotuned twerking boys and girls that can fill stadiums and get a billion hits on spotify/vevo and nothing else. They can't afford to take chances anything that isn't Big Mac or McChicken. The only bands today are either from pre-internet, completely unknown, or a private commercial venture. If you have money you get music made for a fraction of the cost, you buy enough copies for it to become a number one (which is not much now), and you pay for radio airtime. Speculate to accumulate. It's just a straightforward product that needs promoting hard enough that people buy it.

    So now it's just about buying that deluxe promotion pack, and not about impressing people with music so they back you with 6 figures.

    And yeah a lot of people only like the music from when they were young, or only like one or two genres. But 60s - 90s is full of amazing things, more than you can even find in one lifetime.
     
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  22. anvi Prophet Village Idiot

    anvi
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    There was a BBC video about the gaming industry getting gobbled up by corporations, I wish I could find it. It said the huge corporations buying up all the talent and smaller companies made it so only big corporations could compete in gaming now. And the small indie devs are now so far behind that it's a very clearly different tiers. And the 'middle class' of gaming is now gone, medium sized companies got squeezed out. Now it's the few big corporations, or tiny indie devs teams / one man projects.
     
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  23. Jiggy Boobles TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™ Patron

    Jiggy Boobles
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    Well, people are paying for it more than ever. "Musicians" these days are richer than they ever were and they make soulless crap.

    Also, remember Rage Against the Machine? Today they're more like Rage With the Machine :lol:
     
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  24. lycanwarrior Learned

    lycanwarrior
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    At least for FC6, there's this:

    Ubisoft Shares Rise as Far Cry 6 Fares Better Than Expected
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/u...cry-6-fares-better-than-expected-271635498264
     
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