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Decline is gaming officially over

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by the mole, Nov 18, 2021.

  1. AdamReith Magister Patron

    AdamReith
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    I think the high point of games was peculiar because it was able to feed off the peak of hollywood and the music industry, it was a kind of perfect storm as technology advanced during a great time of both genuine inspiration and cynical capitalistic strip mining of existing human art.

    And we have all the roms, there's nothing to really complain about. They'll keep remastering the greats, building virtual casinos for the people hooked to that aspect of diablo and making the same game over and over because that's all the people running things now know.

    Does anybody really expect a new Dark Side of the Moon or Blade Runner? Like the great games they were products of their time and the most important thing is to be grateful not only to have experienced them but also to still have the ability to go back any time for another play.

    For example, just tried Silent Hill for the first time. Fuck all polygons but an atmosphere and cohesive design that nobody making games today could hope to come close to.
     
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  2. samuraigaiden Magister

    samuraigaiden
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    That bridge is indeed something else
     
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  3. anvi Prophet Village Idiot

    anvi
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    If that theory was true then why do we still love some new things and new old things? I find music today that makes me feel as good as when I was a kid, and the same with games and movies.
     
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  4. gurugeorge Arcane Patron

    gurugeorge
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    Strap Yourselves In
    I do wonder if what someone said upthread is mostly true - you know, the rose-tinted spectacles thing.

    What's definitely much, much worse in games (although it wasn't completely absent even in the old favourites) is the wokeness. However, aside from that there's still good gameplay to be had, but it's more oriented around streamlined and bitesized gameplay, you don't get as much good gameplay that's really deep, complicated and intricate (but also meaningful). Streamlined is okay if it's well done, but I tend to think there is actually room for both streamlined and fiddly in the AAA market, just like there's room for light meals and big three course steak dinners.

    But there isn't enough fiddly.

    And it's not just older folks who like fiddly gameplay, there's a sizeable proportion of young people who do too, because they're just like we were when we were young - they want something to get their teeth into.

    Every now and then a game comes along to remind developers that there's a decent-sized market out there for challenge and complexity, but they never seem to learn the lesson and pump out a steady stream of them - I suppose because it is actually easier and less of a headache to balance (and make meaningful) fewer factors than it is to balance (and make meaningful) more.
     
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  5. Unreal Liturgist

    Unreal
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    People also like shitty movies, shitty books, shitty art, shitty games, shitty relationships, and shitty shit. Sound does have a special quality above other sensations, but that doesn't exclude such from other things. Being itself is the language of God. It's just easier to get sentimental from music, that's all. You're an elephant.

    let's listen to some real quality 90's music:

    Show Spoiler




    Of course, normal game soundtracks are good too, and I love silly anime songs, but even those are still infinitely better than normietrash, fite me (in unreal tournament)

    ***

    So anyway. All you losers saying decline doesn't exist are soulless zombies. There is no life in any of the crap released in the past decade, and yet even the complete trash of the past is more valuable than that. You just don't know what you don't know. How's it feel to feel nothing? Oh, right.

    It's kind of baffling how much of a feeling old things have. What am I supposed to play new games for? The occasional furrybait characters...? Scary.
     
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  6. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    [​IMG]
     
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  7. sorinmask Just like Yves, I chase tales. Patron

    sorinmask
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    Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I love the Codex.

     
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  8. Pound Meat Cipher

    Pound Meat
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    I'm repeating myself, but gaming died with the Dreamcast. It's corpse shambled on a bit, but the corporations and woke grifters finally brought it down sometime during the PS3 era. The mere fact that ASMR thots like Gibi and Pokimane can become rich just playing vidya games in front of a camera is proof that it's gone and never coming back.
     
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  9. Ash Arcane

    Ash
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    PS3/Xbox 360 era is the only proof needed. The decline was so steep (and has hardly recovered) that it simply cannot be denied. Anyone that tries just comes across as completely ignorant.
     
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  10. 0wca Learned

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    Obviously there are plenty of other great games from that year, I was mostly pointing out the ones that are still played more than 20 years later.
     
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  11. 0wca Learned

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    Very well said.

    But I think the issue is also the fact that the AAA gaming industry treats its audience like toddlers with these cutesy looking games that are very shallow when it comes to gameplay.

    I think the older games used to treat their audience more like adults. You can see it in the old Fallouts with the whole 'child killer' perk. They were confident enough to leave that in because they knew you weren't gonna turn into a serial child-killer by mowing down New Reno with a minigun.

    Ever since the whole CoD console revolution happened, gaming fell into this hole of 'all presentation no substance' vicious cycle that it never fully recovered from. Those fucking 12-year olds and their soccer moms lowered gaming standards and their complexity for 2 decades and counting.
     
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  12. Lizard Literate

    Lizard
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    WASH YO ASS GOD! :cool:
    [​IMG]


    Rock music was always degenerate; taking part in the supplanting of traditional cultures, values, families. Things have merely accelerated.
    Show Spoiler




    Plenty of great stuff out there we've all missed out on.

    How many newer AAA or AA games ask the player to learn something new? I remember growing up I was always having to learn new mechanics, control schemes, and read the manual. Now you get a simple tutorial for gameplay you already basically know how to play.

    If you want to see something really crazy as far as wokeness is concerned look at the background characters/extras, particularly couples in tv shows and movies released in the last couple decades.

    It isn't just in your face stuff.

    I've noticed that a lot of the people into the more intricate games coming out are younger, so I don't think all the blame can be put on the younger generation for being led astray. Stuff like Kerbal really took off with younger gamers. There is still hope.

    I haven't been able to find the article since it was from a few decades ago, but it was talking about how most Hollyweirdos weren't investing in gaming, aside from a handful, because they thought it was gonna be a fad. I think that played a big part in why we had such an interesting period.
     
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  13. AdamReith Magister Patron

    AdamReith
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    That would make sense, up until microsoft saw what Sony was raking in and got involved it felt much more like a fringe hobby that might be enjoyed by mature adults.

    The way I experienced it as a kid on shop floors tells a lot; at a pc demonstration at a store I got to play MDK, on a sony playstation I had a go at descent.

    When Xbox came along it was Star Wars Episode 1: The Game.

    :stunned:
     
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  14. Lizard Literate

    Lizard
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    I remember going to the gaming store at the mall and you instantly knew which section was the pc games because all the boxes were different sizes and sometimes shapes, while the console games were all uniform.

    The only really notable Hollywood person that was taking an interest in gaming in the 90s was Spielberg. He worked on getting some games made, like a Goosebumps game and a Jurassic Park one. Other than that it was mostly just a few actors doing roles in fmv games, but even that had plenty of nobodies in it.

    Microsoft knew the importance of gaming to their platform:

    Not to mention stuff like AoE, but as you said they wanted to compete with Sony's living room box and basically fucked over the pc gaming market.
     
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  15. samuraigaiden Magister

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    Lizard ever heard of LucasArts? Wonder what that Lucas in the name of that company stands for?

    Here's a hint

    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Lizard Literate

    Lizard
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    Lucas wasn't a Hollyweirdo, LucasArts started making games at Skywalker Ranch. Lucas did a lot of his work on movies there too, It is pretty clear he wanted to be away from the freaks that make up Hollywood. Say what you want about his movies, but I wouldn't lump him with them.
     
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  17. El Presidente Arcane

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    There are more than enough games for ten lifetimes, stop caring about CONSOOM LE CURRENT. Play the PC classics, I guarantee you didn't play all of them. Marathon the Sierra's Quest series, for example. Recently I played through all six Space Quest games, had the time of my life doing so, very fun stuff. Finish the best Gold Box games. Play Albion, The Last Express, Myth, Silver, Blade Runner point and click, Captain Claw, play through the Thief trilogy then download the 30 or so best FMs, I could go on and on forever, that's just to scratch the very surface.

    Then you have emulators. Just to pick two of the most famous franchises, if you go through Zelda from the first game to Twilight Princess and Metroid from the first to Prime 2 Echoes, that alone will keep you busy for ages. Now add everything else. Recently I've been playing lots of arcade goodies on MAME, it's unbelievable how great they are, and how much better than most current action games they can be. Pick one, practice, see if you can finish it with 3 coins, then just 1 coin, then go for the next. Last one I did this was this:



    Gorgeous game, very fun to master. Explore the catalogues, you'll find hundreds of gems.
     
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  18. samuraigaiden Magister

    samuraigaiden
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    Origin Systems was probably the first company to really try to turn game development into a hollywood thing.

    Lord British built an ontourage of retards who worked on stuff like Ultima V, VI and VII and came out of that experience thinking they should to make games with less player freedom, less systems, less everything and more cinematic garbageness.

    Bioforge was actively marketed as a film you play.

    Wing Commander had Hollywood stars and Hollywood budgets before pretty much anyone else.

    Chris Roberts is the godfather of decline. His entire career has been dedicated to enabling decline.

    EDIT: LucasArts was very Hollywood too. They were just smarter about it. The big difference is some people at LucasArts actually had experience making cinema and TV stuff, while the people at Origin were doing what they though hollywood people did.

    For example, the people at LucasArts who did the casting for the voices in their adventure games were actually professionals who had experience doing casting for movies and tv shows. Not only where they hiring actual professional actors, the people doing the hiring were actual professionals too.

    And the difference is noticeable.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
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  19. Lizard Literate

    Lizard
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    I'm not really talking about people imitating hollywood though, I mostly mean old media money throwing their weight around in the industry. All the companies/people you mentioned are relatively new money. Obviously there was a ton of imitation considering fmv was such a big thing, with known actors starring in stuff, but the people who controlled old media at the time weren't really eager to dive in. I mean Dreamworks Interactive, which I was talking about earlier, was a joint venture between Spielberg's company and Microsoft. The biggest moves the big studios outside of Lucas were doing was some licensing out of properties here and there and light publishing to cash in on film releases, not really establishing game studios and investing in it being a long lasting thing until the 2000s. The people who owned a lot of our favorite companies were about gaming first and foremost, often creators themselves like id, Sierra, SSI, MicroProse. These companies would go on to be bought out, but game creators having a large control over their industry instead of the media moguls was more the norm back in the 80s to mid/late 90s.
     
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  20. Corbin Dallas Multipass Learned

    Corbin Dallas Multipass
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    Oxygen not included, kerbal space program, rimworld, dwarf fortress, path of exile, underrail, the other POEs.

    There, I just listed those off the top of my head, excellent games made after the 90s with pretty wide appeal. Well maybe dwarf fortress existed in the 90s.

    Your tastes are not objective or universal. Your takes are not original or based in reality. Gaming is not over, officially or otherwise, obviously, so OP is wrong and fat.
     
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  21. Morgoth Arcane Patron

    Morgoth
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    Been playing The Wheel of Time lately, that old Unreal 1 shooter from Legend Entertainment.

    It's has elegant level design, pleasant textures and lighting to look at, is well written, kicks your ass and has that human touch. In other words, all those qualities modern games lack.

    You should try it. It's free and doesn't need an RTX 3090 to run.
     
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  22. ValeVelKal Arcane

    ValeVelKal
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    I'm Ridin' with Biden I'm Ridin' with Biden
    Playing games from the early 80ies for my blog, most were terrible too. You remember the good ones.

    I don't want to cover 10 years, but let's split in two : what great games were there 5 years ago in 2016. What did we have in 2016 that was either great and/or memorable - excluding new opus of a series like Civ VI, Deus Ex, ...

    - Darkest Dungeon
    - Stardew Valley
    - Total War:Warhammer (yeah, part of a series but also its own thing)
    - This is the Police
    - Overcooked
    - Tyranny

    That's a personal list, but still 6 games - and that's IMO one of the worst years of the last 10 years.

    Actually, gaming as never been as good I believe. Thanks toSteam indies have a chance so we have had incredibly creative games in the last 10 years (Papers Please, Obra Dinn, Hotline Miami, Faster Than Light, 80days, Heaven's Vault, Factorio, Undertale, Subnautica, I am Not A Monster.........).

    In my favorite category (Wargames), there is so much production I pick a theme and I find my games.
     
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  23. samuraigaiden Magister

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    I think yall are focusing too much on a simple quality meter. Is it good? Is it bad? Actually, the problem with the last 10 years of gaming is less about quality and more about innovation.

    Videogames used to be an innovation driven industry. You got people on board by doing the next big technological leap. In the last decade, with the games as service thing, it has become a sales driven business. The only area where games are innovating now is new ways to get people to spend money. That's all the industry is really focusing on, and that's the reason why all games seem like more of the same these days.

    If they had the VR tech we have today in the 90s or 80s, they would already have many incredible must play games on it. Instead, we got maybe a couple of arguably worth playing, maybe, games. Why is that? It's because AAA developers cannot make something new if their life depended on it, and indies don't have the financials to take the risk of developing something for VR that could take 5 years or more to be ready.

    So VR is slowly dying because of the anti innovation climate we have.

    Think about the last 10 big hits in gaming, like Fortnite, Minecraft, etc. Where did that stuff come from? All indie stuff, either indie got bought or indie got ripped off. AAAs are not in the business of creating anything anymore. They are in the business of milking.

    That's what is wrong with gaming today. On a vacuum, Fortnite is not a bad game. But in context, it's absolute shit.
     
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  24. Unreal Liturgist

    Unreal
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    Innovation doesn't matter, inspiration does.
     
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  25. samuraigaiden Magister

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    Reading comprehension matters most
     
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